FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[hasanova]

Mansfield University in Pennsylvania. They dropped their D2 program about 10 years ago and now play in the Sprint league with Army, Navy, Penn, Cornell and Princeton.

I've honestly never heard of the Sprint league ... is this a Club football program for students not playing varsity intercollegiate sports at the service academies or in the the three Ivy League schools you cite?

[jknezek]

Sprint football is a club sport. It is basically football with size restrictions on the players. Wikipedia has a good article on it if you have interest. It seems to be slowly growing in popularity.

[HSCTiger fan]

Nash Nance and Holton Walker each participated in the Baltimore NFL regional combine this past weekend.  They were the only 2 players representing the ODAC and 2 of only a few D3 players that participated.  NFL is a long shot for any of those participating but for now it's nice to be included.

List of offensive participants - http://www.russellstreetreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/2015-Baltimore-Regional-Combine-Roster-Offense.pdf

On another note Nash was rated 33rd best QB prospect by Optimum Scouting the only D3 player listed- http://optimumscouting.com/rankings/static-rankings/quarterback-rankings.html

[tigerfanalso]

Good luck to Nash & Holden. Both very good players and I know they understand the reality of what they are trying to accomplish. Good for them for trying.

JK; sad news regarding Sweet Briar. Sad reality concerning small liberal arts schools with small endowments that are forced to offer substaintial tuition discounts in order to attract students. The survival of the traditional private college education is challenged. Costs are simply too high for 95% of the population seeking a BA or BS degree. Hopefully this is not the trend but I believe Sweet Briar is the 3rd private school in Virginia to make this decision. I think W&L should redistribute the wealth and help keep these schools going !!!!!!   

Hasa; your Quakers ready to win the odac this year or are ya'll going to let E&H finally win one ? I see GC fighting it out with E&H, BC and maybe RMC.       

[jknezek]

Good luck to Nash & Holden. Both very good players and I know they understand the reality of what they are trying to accomplish. Good for them for trying.

JK; sad news regarding Sweet Briar. Sad reality concerning small liberal arts schools with small endowments that are forced to offer substaintial tuition discounts in order to attract students. The survival of the traditional private college education is challenged. Costs are simply too high for 95% of the population seeking a BA or BS degree. Hopefully this is not the trend but I believe Sweet Briar is the 3rd private school in Virginia to make this decision. I think W&L should redistribute the wealth and help keep these schools going !!!!!!   

Hasa; your Quakers ready to win the odac this year or are ya'll going to let E&H finally win one ? I see GC fighting it out with E&H, BC and maybe RMC.       

It is sad about SBC. Especially for H-SC as first Randolph went co-ed, now SBC goes away, the only place left for dates is Hollins since I know the H-SC guys aren't real welcome at the local co-ed colleges.  No one likes a poacher! 

SBC's problem was they just couldn't attract any kind of enrollment. Lots of schools saw the handwriting on the wall years ago and went co-ed. H-SC is making it work and more power to them, Wabash, Hollins, etc., but they really are the exceptions. It's a tough road to take without a whole lot of alumni support and a really good reputation.

I know SBC had some alumni support, but they just never had the reputation to draw a student body. Plus with Hollins so close by, I think it was too much supply, not enough demand.

As for W&L sharing the wealth, don't hold your breath. They are always walking around with their hands out. Definitely a "receiving" mode, not a "giving" one! I do think it's going to become a bit of survival of the fittest, as at these costs for colleges, there just is too much small, expensive, undifferentiated liberal arts supply, and I'm not sure there are enough dollars to pay for it all.

[tigerfanalso]

I think higher education in total has major issues, private education is under seige. A very small % of our population can afford current cost of education, student loan debt is killing this generation and will for years to come. I think community colleges are about to become very popular and over crowded. 5% of the population will seek the traditional college experience.
Landscape of the D3 sports world will be changing and changing very quickly. If schools really get serious about reducing the cost of education, the athletic departments are going to receive huge budget cuts, meaning football and lax will fall by the wayside. The 150 kids particpating in those two programs will not enroll and a significant amount of faculty, administration and facilities can be eliminated. Surviving the next twenty years will be difficult for many institutions. More financial challenges than there are dollars to meet those challenges. Sports will become low priority, very low.

[jknezek]

For the most part I agree. There simply are too many liberal arts schools that cost a small fortune but don't really provide anything that the next one or ten down the road don't provide as well. Lots of those schools are going to have to find a way to differentiate themselves that makes the cost worthwhile. A large quantity of liberal arts schools will survive, but I expect to see many close or combine as well.

As for sports, schools can go one of two ways. Use sports to differentiate, making those schools worthwhile for kids who want to compete at high D3 levels and will pay for the chance, and schools that consider it a waste and return to club levels, dropping the associated costs. But I think you'll start to see a lot less of what we have now, which is every college having a plethora of D3 sporting activities regardless of whether it drives enrollment and tuition prices simply because "everyone else" does it as well.

It's going to be interesting and I wouldn't put my money on schools without significant endowments surviving independently.

[abnrgr]

Sorry to butt in but I think the comments concerning the CC''s caught my fading eyes. I taught at Carteret CC back in the day early 1998-2000 freshman Physical science and Biology (during the summer months only). At that time a CC had gone from a place for some pre-4 year college work for a few young and a place for continuing education for older adults. By 2001 it was overrun with kids who had failed to graduate from High school. it was like an extension of high school with problems not seen at this level before. Now with certain 'leaders" suggesting EVERYONE should  go to CC that will turn it into a high school without any constraints or control.

The point being CC will not be something to strive to get ahead but another place to keep them off the streets. The 2nd order of effect as previously alluded to by JK and Tigerfan will be a enrollment drain from the 4 year liberal arts school such as GC-Q. "Look maw I am in HS level II for NOTHING!" well nothing if you do not pay taxes eh?

Again the loss of revenue will make the "liberal sports are not needed" herd to come out quickly lopping off anywhere 100-200 students. They are so short sighted that they will wonder how they lost their multi cultural look so quickly. "OMG we just booted 75 -100 minoirties" What to do?

The place where I am working on a masters does cheetah flips when someone suggested they get rid of their (No BS) female bowling team and the 3 person female golf team. It's a nightmare.

[narch]

JK; sad news regarding Sweet Briar. Sad reality concerning small liberal arts schools with small endowments that are forced to offer substaintial tuition discounts in order to attract students. The survival of the traditional private college education is challenged. Costs are simply too high for 95% of the population seeking a BA or BS degree. Hopefully this is not the trend but I believe Sweet Briar is the 3rd private school in Virginia to make this decision. I think W&L should redistribute the wealth and help keep these schools going !!!!!!   

i know this is a football board and sweet briar doesn't have football, but i think the discussion is cogent, especially in the off-season and given that it's an odac school in other sports

$88 to $94 million (the numbers i've seen associated with their endowment) is not a terribly small endowment - it's more than approximately half of the other odac schools...and they have over 3,000 acres of land, which is an endowment of sorts if they were to sell some of it off - from what i've read, it seems as though the folks at sbc just gave up and threw in the towel - there are a number of schools that have been in much worse situations that have found a way to remain a going concern - i immediately think of mount olive in NC...they were on the brink of closing (i think they actually lost accreditation), but through branch campuses/distance education, they are, by all public accounts, relatively healthy and able to sustain a smallish enrollment on their main campus - sbc seems to have been more concerned with a clean exit strategy than they were with exploring options - i read that they have over 300 employess, yet just over 500 students - how about letting go of 1/3 to 1/2 of your employees? not fun to do, but it beats letting go of 100% of them, along with all of the students, doesn't it? - clearly sbc had some financial management issues, but those things can be fixed without shuttering the campus if you ask me

to put a sports spin on this, you don't just stop playing a football game when you're down 28-0 after the first quarter - it wasn't over when the germans bombed pearl harbor, was it? how can sbc seemingly give up so easily?

it will be interesting to see if any of the sbc athletes make an impact on other campuses in the odac and possibly even usasac - their teams aren't very competitive, but i imagine they have individual athletes on each team that could contribute to other programs - will the ncaa grant them an immediate release and do coaches start contacting them? it will be interesting to watch...

[Mr. Ypsi]

JK; sad news regarding Sweet Briar. Sad reality concerning small liberal arts schools with small endowments that are forced to offer substaintial tuition discounts in order to attract students. The survival of the traditional private college education is challenged. Costs are simply too high for 95% of the population seeking a BA or BS degree. Hopefully this is not the trend but I believe Sweet Briar is the 3rd private school in Virginia to make this decision. I think W&L should redistribute the wealth and help keep these schools going !!!!!!   

i know this is a football board and sweet briar doesn't have football, but i think the discussion is cogent, especially in the off-season and given that it's an odac school in other sports

$88 to $94 million (the numbers i've seen associated with their endowment) is not a terribly small endowment - it's more than approximately half of the other odac schools...and they have over 3,000 acres of land, which is an endowment of sorts if they were to sell some of it off - from what i've read, it seems as though the folks at sbc just gave up and threw in the towel - there are a number of schools that have been in much worse situations that have found a way to remain a going concern - i immediately think of mount olive in NC...they were on the brink of closing (i think they actually lost accreditation), but through branch campuses/distance education, they are, by all public accounts, relatively healthy and able to sustain a smallish enrollment on their main campus - sbc seems to have been more concerned with a clean exit strategy than they were with exploring options - i read that they have over 300 employess, yet just over 500 students - how about letting go of 1/3 to 1/2 of your employees? not fun to do, but it beats letting go of 100% of them, along with all of the students, doesn't it? - clearly sbc had some financial management issues, but those things can be fixed without shuttering the campus if you ask me

to put a sports spin on this, you don't just stop playing a football game when you're down 28-0 after the first quarter - it wasn't over when the germans bombed pearl harbor, was it? how can sbc seemingly give up so easily?

it will be interesting to see if any of the sbc athletes make an impact on other campuses in the odac and possibly even usasac - their teams aren't very competitive, but i imagine they have individual athletes on each team that could contribute to other programs - will the ncaa grant them an immediate release and do coaches start contacting them? it will be interesting to watch...

This topic is being discussed on its own thread in the General section.

I know nothing about the details, but can't help wondering if this is an opening gambit seeking a merger with another school.  (One poster also reported that while the endowment is not tiny, much of it has restrictions attached.)

[tigerfanalso]

Narch

Pearl Harbor dids get bombed on Dec. 7, 1941, but not by the germans. My history book must have a different author !!!!

[jknezek]

Narch

Pearl Harbor dids get bombed on Dec. 7, 1941, but not by the germans. My history book must have a different author !!!!

Not an Animal House fan?

[narch]

Narch

Pearl Harbor dids get bombed on Dec. 7, 1941, but not by the germans. My history book must have a different author !!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep-xgd_eETE - warning, language

[Pat Coleman]

Hard to believe there are people who don't know that reference.

[abnrgr]

Uhhhh....Sorry