FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[wally_wabash]

Conference Championships 2 for HSC (including 1 from a 4 way tie) 0 for Wabash (including NONE from any ties).

This isn't exactly apples to apples.  In the time frame that you're talking about I think that the NCAC has had at least two teams better than the ODAC's best each season, and at least in 2012 a third.  So while the ODAC is a "better" conference mainly because the bad teams in your league aren't as bad as the bad teams in the NCAC, I think there's a more-than-fair argument to be made that it's been more difficult to win the NCAC.  And that's only partly conjecture on my part- we know without any doubt that the 2014 NCAC runner up was better than the 2014 ODAC champion. 

[hasanova]

Isn't "lessor" a landlord as opposed to "lesser" in terms of ranking goals?

[Scots13]

Isn't "lessor" a landlord as opposed to "lesser" in terms of ranking goals?

Is someone else in insurance, hasa?

[HSCTiger fan]

Seriously?  So now you're jumping in?

Outside of Farmville you'd find very few people who think Hampden-Sydney has accomplished more than Wabash in Division III football.

Really? I'd like to educate them. Over the last 3 years by the numbers:

1 Wabash wins over HSC
27 Wabash wins
22 HSC wins
1 Wabash loss to a team with a losing record
2 HSC losses to teams with losing records
8 Wabash wins over teams who ended the season with winning a  record.
11 HSC wins over teams who ended the season with a winning record.
1 Years Wabash earned a playoff game
2 Years HSC earned a playoff game
1 Wabash playoff wins
1 HSC playoff wins
1 Wabash regular season wins against teams that made the playoffs
2 HSC regular season wins against teams that made the playoffs
0 Wabash NCAC championships
2 HSC ODAC championships
2 Wabash All-Americans (1 player)
4 HSC All-Americans (3 different players)

Finally, if the Wabash class of 2016 does not win the NCAC title this year they will be the first Wabash class since 2002 to NOT win a conference championship.

Feel free to drop some facts I left out.  Hasa please feel free to correct my typos.

[Wabash1]

Seriously?  So now you're jumping in?

Outside of Farmville you'd find very few people who think Hampden-Sydney has accomplished more than Wabash in Division III football.

Really? I'd like to educate them. Over the last 3 years by the numbers:

1 Wabash wins over HSC
27 Wabash wins
22 HSC wins
1 Wabash loss to a team with a losing record
2 HSC losses to teams with losing records
8 Wabash wins over teams who ended the season with winning a  record.
11 HSC wins over teams who ended the season with a winning record.
1 Years Wabash earned a playoff game
2 Years HSC earned a playoff game
1 Wabash playoff wins
1 HSC playoff wins
1 Wabash regular season wins against teams that made the playoffs
2 HSC regular season wins against teams that made the playoffs
0 Wabash NCAC championships
2 HSC ODAC championships
2 Wabash All-Americans (1 player)
4 HSC All-Americans (3 different players)

Finally, if the Wabash class of 2016 does not win the NCAC title this year they will be the first Wabash class since 2002 to NOT win a conference championship.

Feel free to drop some facts I left out.  Hasa please feel free to correct my typos.

That's all fine and dandy, but, when you're talking who is the better team I would think the only stat that matters is head to head and last year it was clearly Wabash. We will soon find out who is the better team in 2015.

[wally_wabash]

Seriously?  So now you're jumping in?

Outside of Farmville you'd find very few people who think Hampden-Sydney has accomplished more than Wabash in Division III football.

Really? I'd like to educate them. Over the last 3 years by the numbers:

1 Wabash wins over HSC
27 Wabash wins
22 HSC wins
1 Wabash loss to a team with a losing record
2 HSC losses to teams with losing records
8 Wabash wins over teams who ended the season with winning a  record.
11 HSC wins over teams who ended the season with a winning record.
1 Years Wabash earned a playoff game
2 Years HSC earned a playoff game
1 Wabash playoff wins
1 HSC playoff wins
1 Wabash regular season wins against teams that made the playoffs
2 HSC regular season wins against teams that made the playoffs
0 Wabash NCAC championships
2 HSC ODAC championships
2 Wabash All-Americans (1 player)
4 HSC All-Americans (3 different players)

Finally, if the Wabash class of 2016 does not win the NCAC title this year they will be the first Wabash class since 2002 to NOT win a conference championship.

Feel free to drop some facts I left out.  Hasa please feel free to correct my typos.

Some of that is incorrect, but despite all of that, the only time that the Top 25 voters have placed H-SC ahead of Wabash is after what turned out to be a fraudulent half of football in Oregon.  There's not a lot of people buying what you're selling here. 

You're also pretty near-sighted in considering just the last three years.  H-SC has won one playoff game ever.  Wabash has only failed to win a game in the tournament once in seven tries in the AQ-era, and has advanced to the regional final three times.  And that's where a team gets shine from the big picture folks- the postseason. 

[jknezek]

Really? I'd like to educate them. Over the last 3 years by the numbers:

1 Wabash wins over HSC
27 Wabash wins
22 HSC wins
1 Wabash loss to a team with a losing record
2 HSC losses to teams with losing records
8 Wabash wins over teams who ended the season with winning a  record.
11 HSC wins over teams who ended the season with a winning record.
1 Years Wabash earned a playoff game
2 Years HSC earned a playoff game
1 Wabash playoff wins
1 HSC playoff wins
1 Wabash regular season wins against teams that made the playoffs
2 HSC regular season wins against teams that made the playoffs
0 Wabash NCAC championships
2 HSC ODAC championships
2 Wabash All-Americans (1 player)
4 HSC All-Americans (3 different players)

Finally, if the Wabash class of 2016 does not win the NCAC title this year they will be the first Wabash class since 2002 to NOT win a conference championship.

Feel free to drop some facts I left out.  Hasa please feel free to correct my typos.

I'm not going to fact check this. If it is correct it is fair to say HSC has accomplished more in the time period in D3 football than Wabash. That, however, is not the same as who is the better team. I can't think of too often I would pick HSC in a pick'em straight up and I expect them to go 0-2 on the field. HSC has been pretty dominant in our little corner. Wabash less so in theirs. I do believe the ODAC is better middle to bottom, but I don't think too many teams would have matched up with the NCAC  W teams. So what's the verdict?  In my opinion Wabash is a better team but HSC has more to show for their efforts lately. That can happen in an asymmetrical competition like D3 football. Last year Wabash was better on the field, but HSC earned rings.

Here's my last thoughts on this. If you were a senior in 2014 and it's now 2030 and your first kid is thinking of playing football. You are digging back through your memories of all the good times of 4 years of college football and can pull out either your HSC ODAC championship rings from 2013 and 2014 or your DVDs of a win in the Gentlemen's Classic and 4 wins in the Bell game, which would you rather have in your closet to show off to your kid?

"So you never won a championship Dad?"

"Well, we did when I was a freshman but I didn't play much that year..."

[Pat Coleman]

jeknezek, I doubt they are pulling out Gentlemen's Classic videos if they've won four Monon Bell games. Probably should line up results in season-ending games vs. archrival and throw that into the mix as well.

[HSCTiger fan]

Make the corrections Wally.  If those numbers aren't correct they're very close. You and Pat want to change my position to the vast history of both programs. I said "Fact is no player AT Wabash has won anything."  They haven't. Players that WERE at Wabash have won championships and have accomplished great things. But this group of LGs have accomplished less than any Wabash team over a 3 year period than any other at Wabash since 2002. That might change this year.  It might not. We will find out once this season is complete. It's not a debate over which team was better last year. Wabash clearly was.

But don't sit there and tell me how to watch my tone, belittle conference championships, call HSC's efforts fraudluent, while during the same time frame your LGs have done nothing more significant than beat "thump" HSC. NOTHING! Wabash's victory over HSC does not trump all of its accomplishments. Have I "earned" the right to point that out?

So come on down to HSC next week. "Thump" HSC again. That's what is expected right?  If that's what happens that's what happens. But beating HSC is not going to change the fact that Wabash has been no more or less significant than HSC on the national stage over the last few years. Maybe this year the LGs can beat HSC, beat Depauw, win the NCAC and go deep into the playoffs. Maybe they will. If they do that would certainly be a great accomplishment.

[Pat Coleman]

Honestly, I don't think the players at Wabash or the Wabash alumni or the former Wabash players feel that way. I know our voters don't feel this way. And I don't recall offhand who won The Game in 2011, 2012 and 2013 but I know who won in 2014.

Mad respect, always, for Marty Favret because he helped make my alma mater relevant in Division III football for a few years, but as a program, Hampden-Sydney is not better than Wabash. Very few unbiased observers would claim it was. Beating whomever is second in the ODAC is not as difficult as beating Wittenberg, pretty much any year since 2002.

I don't think you have the familiarity with Division III nationally to say what anyone has done "on the national stage."

[hasanova]

Isn't "lessor" a landlord as opposed to "lesser" in terms of ranking goals?

Is someone else in insurance, hasa?

Actually, Scots13, I was for a short period ... once held five different insurance licenses ... more a student of languages and their nuances. 

[hasanova]

I know, let's have a spelling bee between the NCAC and the ODAC.  Okay, contestant from HSC, your word is "proselytize" and contestant from Wabash, your word  is "hermeneutics."

[HSCTiger fan]

My argument was and still is that no one should disparage HSC's accomplishments while at the same time their team or program has not accomplished any more. It doesn't matter what I know about the national stage. None of the current LGs or Tigers have advanced past the 2nd round. Fact. You can argue about which program is better. You know more about the programs across the country than I.

I've said I am blinded. I admit it. I'll also concede I know little about about the national stage. That's ok. Is that any different than 99% of the fans on these boards?

Hasa how the heck do you expect me to spell that?

[jknezek]

jeknezek, I doubt they are pulling out Gentlemen's Classic videos if they've won four Monon Bell games. Probably should line up results in season-ending games vs. archrival and throw that into the mix as well.

Oh I agree 100%. But since we're discussing these two teams you give Wabash the props for winning on the field and, I expect, winning on the field again. But in 15 years I'd still rather show my kid my championship rings than some old game medium (I'm guessing it won't be DVDs) of games we won against our rivals. So yeah, in 15 years I think the advantage goes to the 2014 HSC seniors over the 2014 Wabash seniors. 3 rings beat one, if you count freshman year, 2 rings as contributors beats empty fingers in the long run...

[Pat Coleman]

I'll also concede I know little about about the national stage. That's ok. Is that any different than 99% of the fans on these boards?

A lot of fans actually follow the national stage. That's the reason why we created D3football.com.