FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[HSCTiger fan]

I'll also concede I know little about about the national stage. That's ok. Is that any different than 99% of the fans on these boards?

A lot of fans actually follow the national stage. That's the reason why we created D3football.com.

Well since I've read every article in the last 5 years I guess I cut myself short. I must be an expert.

[wally_wabash]

My argument was and still is that no one should disparage HSC's accomplishments while at the same time their team or program has not accomplished any more.

Did you miss the part where I said that wasn't my intention?  I'll say it again in case you skipped that.  It wasn't my intent to disparage anything HSC has done.  Right?  From this point on, if your feelings are hurt because you misread something I posted, that's a you problem now. 

[HSCTiger fan]

It's all good Wally. I'm tend to beat a dead horse. Jk and Hasa I'm sure wished HSC would have changed conferences to the NJAC with CNU for the sole reason of not seeing my rants. 

[jknezek]

It's all good Wally. I'm tend to beat a dead horse. Jk and Hasa I'm sure wished HSC would have changed conferences to the NJAC with CNU for the sole reason of not seeing my rants. 

I don't know about Hasa but I have no interest in running off my entertainment. 

[sigma one]

Did Hampden-Sydney scrimmage yesterday?  Any reports?  There is a good summary of the Wabash/Wheaton scrimmage (played in a hard rain) on both the North Coast and CCIW boards.
     

[sigma one]

 I've now had time to look at Wabash and Hampden-Sydney over a slightly longer period than the last three years.  While I agree that the three-year period shows what HSC Tiger fan submitted, I'd like to take a slightly longer view of the programs in the interest of defending what Wabash has accomplished in the past five years:  2010-2014.  This longer view helps establish Wabash football as among the top of the second tier nationally while not putting them among the nations very elite.  They still match up well with the best of Division III.

         *Wabash is 47-8 (two one-loss seasons including a 9-1 record when they did not make the playoffs) .  HSC is 39-16.
               Of Wabash's 8 losses, 3 have been to Wittenberg, one to UW Whitewater (in 2014 when the Warhawks were national champs),
               one to Mt Union (3rd round of the playoffs when the Purple Raiders were national runner up to UWW.  At Mt. Union that score was
               20-8).                             
          *Wabash has not lost more than 2 games in a season in the five-year period--actually have not lost more than 2 games in a year
                   since 2004 (10 years)
.         *Wabash has been ranked in the DIII Football final poll in 3 of the last 5 years.  HSC has been ranked twice.
             The Wabash rankings:
                                               2010  Unranked
                                               2011  Ranked 7th  Playoff loss to Mt. Union
                                               2012  Unranked
                                               2013  Ranked 22nd
                                               2014  Ranked 13th (and ahead of Wittenberg, which defeated the LGs.  Witt finished #17)  Playoff 
                                                         loss to UWW
               Note:  NCAC member Wittenberg has been ranked in the final Top 25 4X in the last 5 years.
                         HSC has been ranked in the top 25 twice.  25th in 2010, and 18th in 2013.  No other ODAC team has been ranked from
                            2010 through 2014.

               From 2010-2014 a total of 53 teams have been ranked in the Final Poll Top 25. 
                         Four teams has been ranked all 5 years:  Mt. Union, Wesley, North Central, St Thomas  Recall that Whitewater
                         was unranked in 2012 when they finished 7-3.
               From 2010-2014 a total of 8 more teams have appeared in the final rankings 4X: Whitewater, Linfield, Mary Hardin-Baylor,
                         Johns Hopkins, Wittenberg (NCAC), Franklin, Wheaton, Bethel
               From 2010-2014 Wabash is included among 10 teams that have appeared 3X:  Wabash, Wartburg, Hobart, Oshkosh, St. John
                         Fisher, Delaware Valley, Pacific Lutheran, Rowan, Thomas More, Cal Lutheran

               In this period, then, 22 teams have appeared in the final rankings in 3+ years.  Wabash is in this group.
               In this period, of the 53 teams appearing in the Final Poll, 10 more have made the group 2X; another 21 have appeared 1X.

               One might quibble about relative conference strength.  I know that the ODAC has a stronger middle than the NCAC, but Wabash
                       and Wittenberg together have batttled into the Top 25 7X since 2010.  The ODAC has sent only Hampden-Sydney into the
                       Top 25 in this time frame.
               To be absolutely clear, I am NOT saying that Wabash is up there with the very top programs nationwide; I am saying that they
                        have been consistently among the top 20 or so teams in the country over this recent period.  This places them
                       solidly in the top 10% of teams in Division III.
               This is officially now first-game week, so the past years, however interesting, say nothing about what can happen in 2015.
               Good luck to the Little Giants and Tigers this weekend in Virginia.  Wabash Always Fights.
       

                 
             
               
                         
         
                                             
         

[hasanova]

It's all good Wally. I'm tend to beat a dead horse. Jk and Hasa I'm sure wished HSC would have changed conferences to the NJAC with CNU for the sole reason of not seeing my rants. 

It is very interesting entertainment.  One thing of which I'm pretty sure:  HSC would not be getting a ring in the NJAC this year.

[hasanova]

My argument was and still is that no one should disparage HSC's accomplishments while at the same time their team or program has not accomplished any more. It doesn't matter what I know about the national stage. None of the current LGs or Tigers have advanced past the 2nd round. Fact. You can argue about which program is better. You know more about the programs across the country than I.

I've said I am blinded. I admit it. I'll also concede I know little about about the national stage. That's ok. Is that any different than 99% of the fans on these boards?

Hasa how the heck do you expect me to spell that?

T-H-A-T.  One letter at a time.  Besides, I spelled it for you. 

[HSCTiger fan]

I've now had time to look at Wabash and Hampden-Sydney over a slightly longer period than the last three years.  While I agree that the three-year period shows what HSC Tiger fan submitted, I'd like to take a slightly longer view of the programs in the interest of defending what Wabash has accomplished in the past five years:  2010-2014.  This longer view helps establish Wabash football as among the top of the second tier nationally while not putting them among the nations very elite.  They still match up well with the best of Division III.

         *Wabash is 47-8 (two one-loss seasons including a 9-1 record when they did not make the playoffs) .  HSC is 39-16.
               Of Wabash's 8 losses, 3 have been to Wittenberg, one to UW Whitewater (in 2014 when the Warhawks were national champs),
               one to Mt Union (3rd round of the playoffs when the Purple Raiders were national runner up to UWW.  At Mt. Union that score was
               20-8).                             
          *Wabash has not lost more than 2 games in a season in the five-year period--actually have not lost more than 2 games in a year
                   since 2004 (10 years)
.         *Wabash has been ranked in the DIII Football final poll in 3 of the last 5 years.  HSC has been ranked twice.
             The Wabash rankings:
                                               2010  Unranked
                                               2011  Ranked 7th  Playoff loss to Mt. Union
                                               2012  Unranked
                                               2013  Ranked 22nd
                                               2014  Ranked 13th (and ahead of Wittenberg, which defeated the LGs.  Witt finished #17)  Playoff 
                                                         loss to UWW
               Note:  NCAC member Wittenberg has been ranked in the final Top 25 4X in the last 5 years.
                         HSC has been ranked in the top 25 twice.  25th in 2010, and 18th in 2013.  No other ODAC team has been ranked from
                            2010 through 2014.

               From 2010-2014 a total of 53 teams have been ranked in the Final Poll Top 25. 
                         Four teams has been ranked all 5 years:  Mt. Union, Wesley, North Central, St Thomas  Recall that Whitewater
                         was unranked in 2012 when they finished 7-3.
               From 2010-2014 a total of 8 more teams have appeared in the final rankings 4X: Whitewater, Linfield, Mary Hardin-Baylor,
                         Johns Hopkins, Wittenberg (NCAC), Franklin, Wheaton, Bethel
               From 2010-2014 Wabash is included among 10 teams that have appeared 3X:  Wabash, Wartburg, Hobart, Oshkosh, St. John
                         Fisher, Delaware Valley, Pacific Lutheran, Rowan, Thomas More, Cal Lutheran

               In this period, then, 22 teams have appeared in the final rankings in 3+ years.  Wabash is in this group.
               In this period, of the 53 teams appearing in the Final Poll, 10 more have made the group 2X; another 21 have appeared 1X.

               One might quibble about relative conference strength.  I know that the ODAC has a stronger middle than the NCAC, but Wabash
                       and Wittenberg together have batttled into the Top 25 7X since 2010.  The ODAC has sent only Hampden-Sydney into the
                       Top 25 in this time frame.
               To be absolutely clear, I am NOT saying that Wabash is up there with the very top programs nationwide; I am saying that they
                        have been consistently among the top 20 or so teams in the country over this recent period.  This places them
                       solidly in the top 10% of teams in Division III.
               This is officially now first-game week, so the past years, however interesting, say nothing about what can happen in 2015.
               Good luck to the Little Giants and Tigers this weekend in Virginia.  Wabash Always Fights!                                       
         

HSC scrimmaged the NE Patriots and held Tom Brady to 6/21 83 yards 0 TDs and 4 INTs.  Sacked him 6 times too. Offensively the Tigers ran for 380 yards and 6 TDs and threw 24/28 447 yards 2 TDs and zero picks. It could have been worse but coach freely subbed in the 3rd and 4th quarters.  Final was 62 to 0 on 8 TDs and 2 FGs. The FGs were from 51 and 65 yards a new world record kick. They did not scrimmage anyone but themselves.

I am not debating programs, quality of teams, which team has the best coaches, which team commands the most respect nationally, which team can run fastest, lift more, whose smarter, better looking, richer, poorer, whose got a better fan base, whose team has the  hottest moms.  I was debating the accomplishments of the current players at Wabash and HSC RIGHT NOW.

There's no doubt that the current HSC players have accomplished more over the same time frame than the current Wabash players in conference play. Even nationally HSC has won just as many playoff games, and played 1 more playoff game than THESE LGs. THESE Tigers have played with 3 different All-Americans.  These Wabash guys have played with one! 

None of this matters as to which team is better. Wabash is the better team. That does not mean accomplishment. They're only the better team in my eyes because they beat HSC last year. That could all change Saturday. I'm confident our Tigers are up to the challenge.

I'm sure most of your research is correct.  But just fyi RMC was ranked for 2 weeks in 2010.

Hasa it looks like you also typed slowly. Which helped.

[sigma one]

I was not looking at rankings during the season.  My research was about the Final Poll on DIII.  Teams move into or out of the rankings all the time.  I like the way you narrowly qualify your argument to "in conference play," ignoring that current Wabash players have been twice on teams that finished ranked in the National Poll Top 25.  And that clearly every year Wabash has Wittenberg, also a top-ranked team, to contend within the NCAC.  Again, no other team from the ODAC has finished in the Top 25 during the tenure of current Tiger players.
     Wabash knows that HSC will be a quality opponent on Saturday.   I give the Tigers a punchers chance, but can't ignore that Nance and Walker are gone.  Wabash got both at their best last year (and their best was impressive) before injuries hampered them later in the season when the Tigers lost to teams they might have otherwise beaten.         

You are correct.  Saturday will tell the tale.

[wally_wabash]

I am not debating programs, quality of teams, which team has the best coaches, which team commands the most respect nationally, which team can run fastest, lift more, whose smarter, better looking, richer, poorer, whose got a better fan base, whose team has the  hottest moms.  I was debating the accomplishments of the current players at Wabash and HSC RIGHT NOW.

There's no doubt that the current HSC players have accomplished more over the same time frame than the current Wabash players in conference play. Even nationally HSC has won just as many playoff games, and played 1 more playoff game than THESE LGs. THESE Tigers have played with 3 different All-Americans.  These Wabash guys have played with one! 

This lingers in the area between creative interpretation and downright disingenuous.  The 2013 team graduated a bunch of seniors.  The 2014 team graduated a truckload more.  THESE Tigers haven't really done much without the heavy lifting of guys that aren't there anymore. 

But you keep banging that drum, boss.  Hampden-Sydney and Wabash are the basically the same team. 

[HSCTiger fan]

You can't have it both ways Wally. You want to give credence to the program for the  entire history of the program. But then say our current guys had nothing to do with our most recent successes. That's a load of crap.

You reminded me yesterday that you did not mean to trash the ODAC championship. I said no worries. I'll remind you that not once have I said HSC and Wabash are basically the same team. I have repeatedly said this group of HSC players have accomplished more. I've actually made the statement that Wabash is the better team.

If you are honest. I think you'd agree that not winning any championships, and only 1 playoff win in the past 3 seasons is disappointing.

[wally_wabash]

If you are honest. I think you'd agree that not winning any championships, and only 1 playoff win in the past 3 seasons is disappointing.

Not really.  In 2013 the selection committee spit on Wabash's 9-1 record and left them as the first team out of the tournament.  That team would have had a good chance to win games in the tournament.  But that's the way it goes sometimes.  If I'm going to be disappointing with 8, 9, and 10 win seasons, I need to step away from this business.  Somebody give me a time out if I turn into one of these fans that's going to be disappointed and upset with results that 95% of the division would love to have.  We have it pretty good at Wabash. 

[HSCTiger fan]

I was not looking at rankings during the season.  My research was about the Final Poll on DIII.  Teams move into or out of the rankings all the time.  I like the way you narrowly qualify your argument to "in conference play," ignoring that current Wabash players have been twice on teams that finished ranked in the National Poll Top 25.  And that clearly every year Wabash has Wittenberg, also a top-ranked team, to contend within the NCAC.  Again, no other team from the ODAC has finished in the Top 25 during the tenure of current Tiger players.
     Wabash knows that HSC will be a quality opponent on Saturday.   I give the Tigers a punchers chance, but can't ignore that Nance and Walker are gone.  Wabash got both at their best last year (and their best was impressive) before injuries hampered them later in the season when the Tigers lost to teams they might have otherwise beaten.         

You are correct.  Saturday will tell the tale.

Sigma your point about rank is fair with regards to accomplishment. I did not intentionally leave that out. It's good point I just didn't think of it. However, Wabash certainly was not ranked because they lost to a good team (Witt).  I'll promise you that every ODAC player and coach would rather have the crown than to have no crown and finish ranked in a subjective poll.

[HSCTiger fan]

If you are honest. I think you'd agree that not winning any championships, and only 1 playoff win in the past 3 seasons is disappointing.

Not really.  In 2013 the selection committee spit on Wabash's 9-1 record and left them as the first team out of the tournament.  That team would have had a good chance to win games in the tournament.  But that's the way it goes sometimes.  If I'm going to be disappointing with 8, 9, and 10 win seasons, I need to step away from this business.  Somebody give me a time out if I turn into one of these fans that's going to be disappointed and upset with results that 95% of the division would love to have.  We have it pretty good at Wabash.

Reaburn has to ecstatic to have such understanding fans.  It must be nice knowing winning the conference is no big deal, making the playoffs once in 3 years, and only winning one playoff game every 3 years is good enough to keep the fanbase happy. Especially considering Wabash's perceived stature on the national stage. I wonder if UWW fans will be so forgiving if their coach does the same over the next 3 years?