FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[hscathletics]

Football poll scheduled to be released on the 22nd.

ODAC will provide a virtual guide and an interview with each coach just like they have in the past.

[hscathletics]

H-SC had approximately 95 report today. Smaller than in past years but certainly enough bodies to field what we are hoping is a ODAC Championship caliber football team.

[HSCTiger fan]

Football poll scheduled to be released on the 22nd.

ODAC will provide a virtual guide and an interview with each coach just like they have in the past.

That's all I wanted.

[jknezek]

H-SC had approximately 95 report today. Smaller than in past years but certainly enough bodies to field what we are hoping is a ODAC Championship caliber football team.

Considering W&L had 75 or so report last year, 95 is more than enough. At a certain point quantity is just admissions dollars, not useful on the field.

[hscathletics]

H-SC had approximately 95 report today. Smaller than in past years but certainly enough bodies to field what we are hoping is a ODAC Championship caliber football team.

Considering W&L had 75 or so report last year, 95 is more than enough. At a certain point quantity is just admissions dollars, not useful on the field.

I don't mind quantity when they are funding my paycheck

[jknezek]

H-SC had approximately 95 report today. Smaller than in past years but certainly enough bodies to field what we are hoping is a ODAC Championship caliber football team.

Considering W&L had 75 or so report last year, 95 is more than enough. At a certain point quantity is just admissions dollars, not useful on the field.

I don't mind quantity when they are funding my paycheck

Touche and +k

[jknezek]

Looks like W&L had 78 report this year. 26 first years, 19 sophs, 18 juniors, 15 seniors. Pretty in line historically, though there have been a few years with closer to 30 FY and years with closer to 10 seniors. W&L has to have one of the better retention rates in DIII as usually more than 50% of the FY players are still with the team senior year.

Once again happy to see a local kid, Jimmie Johnson from Hoover Alabama listed among the FY players. He joins Will Brewster, soph from Mountain Brook AL and Will Dyson, senior from literally a few houses down the street from me in Indian Springs AL. Always nice to have some local talent to root for.

What has me really excited is the Generals' 15 seniors. They are all impact guys with lots of experience and they will be all over the field. Dyson at DB, 3 RBs all who got significant yards last season, Charlie Nelson at QB, 2 TE, one LB, both kickers, 3 DL and 2 OL, including Pre-Season AA Lasala. In other words, there will be senior leadership everywhere, not always a luxury W&L has had in the past.

[HSCTiger fan]

In some ways I think d3 recruiting is more underhanded than any other division. HSC and WL have won the last 9 ODAC championships. They recruit only players they feel can play. Neither have taken the approach of bringing in a huge number of kids and see who sticks. Coaches justify putting kids in huge debt (student loans) with false hope. It practically fraud.

[jknezek]

In some ways I think d3 recruiting is more underhanded than any other division. HSC and WL have won the last 9 ODAC championships. They recruit only players they feel can play. Neither have taken the approach of bringing in a huge number of kids and see who sticks. Coaches justify putting kids in huge debt (student loans) with false hope. It practically fraud.

I was involved in a discussion like this over on the OAC boards yesterday. I don't think it's necessarily fraud, and I think it's not necessarily the coach's fault. I do think there are schools that ridiculously over recruit and promise things that have no chance of happening. I think there are some schools that are infamous for this. But I think in other cases, like any of the Purple Powers, the huge numbers include a small number of heavily recruited kids and a whole lot of delusional 18 year olds that simply don't know what the reality is for DIII level football.

I do feel bad for those kids, and the ones that have been over-recruited for no purpose other than dollars. But so long as they graduate with a degree they got the important part, even if they were mislead about their ability to play football. So yeah, it's irritating and, in my opinion dishonest, to recruit 100+ first years come to campus. I don't have a ton of respect for schools that use this practice, but that doesn't mean it can't work out properly.

[wally_wabash]

In some ways I think d3 recruiting is more underhanded than any other division. HSC and WL have won the last 9 ODAC championships. They recruit only players they feel can play. Neither have taken the approach of bringing in a huge number of kids and see who sticks. Coaches justify putting kids in huge debt (student loans) with false hope. It practically fraud.

Coaches put kids in debt?  That's a little harsh, don't you think? 

[HSCTiger fan]

In some ways I think d3 recruiting is more underhanded than any other division. HSC and WL have won the last 9 ODAC championships. They recruit only players they feel can play. Neither have taken the approach of bringing in a huge number of kids and see who sticks. Coaches justify putting kids in huge debt (student loans) with false hope. It practically fraud.

Coaches put kids in debt?  That's a little harsh, don't you think?

I don't think its harsh at all. Delusional 18 year olds need to be told not to come not they are welcome to take out loans and be a part of the team.  If you are worth a damn as a football coach you should be able to evaluate talent. 50 freshmen a year should be more than enough. I think NJAC caps roster at 125.

[Ralph Turner]

In some ways I think d3 recruiting is more underhanded than any other division. HSC and WL have won the last 9 ODAC championships. They recruit only players they feel can play. Neither have taken the approach of bringing in a huge number of kids and see who sticks. Coaches justify putting kids in huge debt (student loans) with false hope. It practically fraud.

Coaches put kids in debt?  That's a little harsh, don't you think?

I don't think its harsh at all. Delusional 18 year-olds need to be told not to come not they are welcome to take out loans and be a part of the team.  If you are worth a damn as a football coach you should be able to evaluate talent. 50 freshmen a year should be more than enough. I think NJAC caps roster at 125.

I will put a different tack to this.

1) Is your alma mater a worthy institution of higher education, even worthy of the student loans that the student might need?
2) Which high school student would you tell not to matriculate if they gained admission to your alma mater?
3) Is the student an athlete?
4) How did the athlete get thru high school?  I dare say that they found the class-practice-study, class-practice-study, class-practice-study then game day regimen as a productive and structured use of time.

Countless numbers of coaches say that GPA's are higher, in-season as opposed to out-of-season.  If the student-athlete benefits from the peer pressure of the team to make good grades and attend class, is that not better than the "oversleep-party-miss class the next day - miss another class - party instead of homework - then oversleep til you flunk-out" regimen?

The student-athlete must confront the time in his/her life when his/her athletic ability has taken him/her as far as it can.  Does the school then offer a worthy experience for the "non-athlete/former athlete"? Is that school to which the student matriculated not a right match for the student?  Then in that case, the student should not have matriculated. Otherwise, I make the case that D-3 is purest and having the most integrity of the intercollegiate athletic models.

[hasanova]

I believe this thread got its impetus because I repeated GC's announcement that 157 student-athletes reported for camp this week.  I only know of 20 announced first year recruits for the Quakers and I believe Coach Rusiewicz and his staff to be upfront and honest with incoming students and walk-ons as in ... "We will start the best players.  Currently you are #"ain't gonna see much time" at your position on our depth chart."  Matt Pawlowski was told he was 5th on the QB chart at the start of camp in 2012 and he came to Guilford anyway where he started 40 games.  The other piece of this puzzle is this:  Guilford is a good school with a beautiful campus that perhaps people simply want to attend whether they play football or not (read about St. John's in Minnesota sometime).  The chance to be on the football team would be a bonus.   Finally, lots of players will naturally be attracted to a team coming off four winning seasons and a 17-3 record in the last two.   I don't believe Coach R, his staff and Guilford College are trying to do anything unethical ... they have simply built and are encouraging a desirable DIII environment for student athletes and their families in a state with limited opportunities in this niche.  In NC, our DIII (with football) competitors are NCWC, Methodist, Greensboro and now Brevard.  Each offers different things and different locales ... I humbly think ours is the best in one of most attractive parts of the state.  In fact, perhaps one of the premier DIII academic with football opportunities south of Virginia.

[HSCTiger fan]

I don't disagree that if you have a great school football should be a bonus. But reality is that kids come for football. Pawlowski may have been told he was fifth but he did not go to Guilford because of anything more than football. No football team - no player. As great a school as HSC has Nash Nance did not transfer to HSC  for the tremendous education only. On the flip side if coaches are honest with potential recruits (I believe coach R is) and  if the student and his parents are good then that's fine. However if anyone thinks coaches are completely honest... They are very misinformed.

[hasanova]

I'm not naive.  If Guilford didn't have football, Pawlowski would have gone elsewhere.  Some schools over-recruit to fill beds.  Some coaches lead players astray with overly optimistic ideas of the playing time they'll see.  I just comment on the coaches and school I know ...