FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[tigerFanAlso2]

at some D3 schools the President will inform the coaching staff as to how many kids are expected in the freshman class.
so what is the coach to do ? he better get the expected number or deal with the consequences. lets face it, one of the main reason D3 schools sponsor athletics is for purposes of enrollment.

[Scots13]

Methodist is known for having big freshman classes in the USAC, but this year I think MC has one. I've heard it's something like 97, but no solid source for that as of yet. Mid 60's in returners.

I'm on the fence on having large incoming classes. Usually end up with 15 or so seniors out of the class, but some of the bottom of the class kids coming in can be a diamond in the rough. As long as a school can become a home for a large portion of the kids after they leave the team, there is no problem. However, the kids that come for a semester or two then transfer is a problem. Inflating enrollment is never ideal, but having larger freshmen classes can help finance some facility upgrades for the kids that stay and compete for 4 years.

Maryville and Guilford are in the same boat. Couple good years and more still to come attracts kids. There's no way an up and coming program that sees sustained success in the ODAC or USAC is going to turn kids down. It helps the schools pay the coaches better and keep them around.

[jknezek]

Maryville and Guilford are in the same boat. Couple good years and more still to come attracts kids. There's no way an up and coming program that sees sustained success in the ODAC or USAC is going to turn kids down. It helps the schools pay the coaches better and keep them around.

More or less true. Given the acceptance rates at ODAC schools (except W&L) are around 50%, with some touching 80%+, and the USAC in the same boat, football is simply a big flag to wave them in. For better or worse.

[Scots13]

Maryville and Guilford are in the same boat. Couple good years and more still to come attracts kids. There's no way an up and coming program that sees sustained success in the ODAC or USAC is going to turn kids down. It helps the schools pay the coaches better and keep them around.

More or less true. Given the acceptance rates at ODAC schools (except W&L) are around 50%, with some touching 80%+, and the USAC in the same boat, football is simply a big flag to wave them in. For better or worse.

I was assuming admission was already granted in my post, but I agree with you.

I wonder what % of overall enrollment football teams in the ODAC and USAC comprise at these schools...guess we'll have to wait see total numbers in a couple weeks.

[jknezek]

I was assuming admission was already granted in my post, but I agree with you.

I wonder what % of overall enrollment football teams in the ODAC and USAC comprise at these schools...guess we'll have to wait see total numbers in a couple weeks.

Guilford is around 2100 students, so 150 is 7%. More importantly though, it's 54/46 gender split men to women, so roughly 13% of on campus men, are football players. That's fairly high for ODAC for my memory, but nowhere near the highest because Guilford is a fairly large ODAC school.

If you want to know what school really relies on football, you have to look at E&H. E&H has 1012 students, and a 50/50 split. So there are about 500 men on campus. With 136 names reported as coming to camp, http://www.gowasps.com/sports/fball/2016-17/roster, you have almost 14% of the campus, and almost 30% of the men on campus, involved in football.

At the other extreme is W&L. About 1900 undergrads. 75 football players. Roughly 4% of total students. With a 51%-49% split typically, about 8% of the men are football players. That's low in the ODAC, though not substantially lower than H-SC.

[Scots13]

I was assuming admission was already granted in my post, but I agree with you.

I wonder what % of overall enrollment football teams in the ODAC and USAC comprise at these schools...guess we'll have to wait see total numbers in a couple weeks.

Guilford is around 2100 students, so 150 is 7%. More importantly though, it's 54/46 gender split men to women, so roughly 13% of on campus men, are football players. That's fairly high for ODAC for my memory, but nowhere near the highest because Guilford is a fairly large ODAC school.

If you want to know what school really relies on football, you have to look at E&H. E&H has 1012 students, and a 50/50 split. So there are about 500 men on campus. With 136 names reported as coming to camp, http://www.gowasps.com/sports/fball/2016-17/roster, you have almost 14% of the campus, and almost 30% of the men on campus, involved in football.

At the other extreme is W&L. About 1900 undergrads. 75 football players. Roughly 4% of total students. With a 51%-49% split typically, about 8% of the men are football players. That's low in the ODAC, though not substantially lower than H-SC.

Did you notice how many transfers E&H has? I did a quick run through and counted 15.

I'm not accusing E&H of any wrong doing, but what are they doing that other regional schools aren't? Are they posting "Transfers Wanted" on Craigs List? 

[jknezek]

Did you notice how many transfers E&H has? I did a quick run through and counted 15.

I'm not accusing E&H of any wrong doing, but what are they doing that other regional schools aren't? Are they posting "Transfers Wanted" on Craigs List? 

They've always had a fairly high number if memory serves. I wouldn't be surprised if Coach Newsome has made it a priority. Coming from VTech's staff he's probably plugged in to the coaching network pretty well. It isn't unreasonable to say he put out the word he's transfer friendly. E&H isn't the hardest school to get into, so if you are local and looking to transfer down to get playing time, it is probably a decent option. On the other hand, it's a transfer that got the last coach in hot water.

[Scots13]

Did you notice how many transfers E&H has? I did a quick run through and counted 15.

I'm not accusing E&H of any wrong doing, but what are they doing that other regional schools aren't? Are they posting "Transfers Wanted" on Craigs List? 

They've always had a fairly high number if memory serves. I wouldn't be surprised if Coach Newsome has made it a priority. Coming from VTech's staff he's probably plugged in to the coaching network pretty well. It isn't unreasonable to say he put out the word he's transfer friendly. E&H isn't the hardest school to get into, so if you are local and looking to transfer down to get playing time, it is probably a decent option. On the other hand, it's a transfer that got the last coach in hot water.

Newsome didn't get to Tech by being an idiot, but their Compliance Officer might be a different story..

[Bombers798891]

In some ways I think d3 recruiting is more underhanded than any other division. HSC and WL have won the last 9 ODAC championships. They recruit only players they feel can play. Neither have taken the approach of bringing in a huge number of kids and see who sticks. Coaches justify putting kids in huge debt (student loans) with false hope. It practically fraud.

I'd love to see some actual proof that these student-athletes incurring student-loan debt would skip college completely were it not for these coaches

[jknezek]

Did you notice how many transfers E&H has? I did a quick run through and counted 15.

I'm not accusing E&H of any wrong doing, but what are they doing that other regional schools aren't? Are they posting "Transfers Wanted" on Craigs List? 

They've always had a fairly high number if memory serves. I wouldn't be surprised if Coach Newsome has made it a priority. Coming from VTech's staff he's probably plugged in to the coaching network pretty well. It isn't unreasonable to say he put out the word he's transfer friendly. E&H isn't the hardest school to get into, so if you are local and looking to transfer down to get playing time, it is probably a decent option. On the other hand, it's a transfer that got the last coach in hot water.

Newsome didn't get to Tech by being an idiot, but their Compliance Officer might be a different story..

Don Montgomery wasn't an idiot either, but my guess is he did get desperate.

[Scots13]

Did you notice how many transfers E&H has? I did a quick run through and counted 15.

I'm not accusing E&H of any wrong doing, but what are they doing that other regional schools aren't? Are they posting "Transfers Wanted" on Craigs List? 

They've always had a fairly high number if memory serves. I wouldn't be surprised if Coach Newsome has made it a priority. Coming from VTech's staff he's probably plugged in to the coaching network pretty well. It isn't unreasonable to say he put out the word he's transfer friendly. E&H isn't the hardest school to get into, so if you are local and looking to transfer down to get playing time, it is probably a decent option. On the other hand, it's a transfer that got the last coach in hot water.

Newsome didn't get to Tech by being an idiot, but their Compliance Officer might be a different story..

Don Montgomery wasn't an idiot either, but my guess is he did get desperate.

True. I didn't mean for that to come across the way it did.

[CMR]

Interesting reads on incoming freshmen counts.  I'm in the camp that thinks schools are doing kids a disservice when you have large incoming classes.  Programs that evaluate kids before they hit campus are better for it, than those with an open door policy, IMHO.  I have more respect for the programs, such as RMC and HSC that typically bring in 35-40 kids, or less.  Often these programs will have higher percentage of returners as well, for example RMC had 30 Juniors and 25 Seniors last year.  Taking large number of players just to evaluate them after getting on campus, seems like laziness by the coaching staffs (from a recruiting standpoint) and unfair to the players.  I'm sure many of these players leave these programs with the bad perception of the school and the programs (bad PR).  Schools like RMC, HSC and WLU don't need to, nor want to, take just anyone willing to show up.

[tigerFanAlso2]

one thing to remember about these kids that never play; 1) some know they will not play but just want to be part of the team and 2) some want 4 years of football on their resume for grad school/job market. Companies like to hire NCAA athletes for several reasons but mainly because they demonstrate time management skills, understand the team concept and they are competitive in the sales environment. Just two reasons some kids are willing to participate knowing they will never play one down of football and I'm certain there are many more.

[CMR]

Excellent Points!  +1

[Ralph Turner]

+1! tFA2