FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[jknezek]

not until ODAC is looking at an 8 game schedule. playing the same team twice in one season is just not an acceptable option, at least not to me. odac can and must do better, or I see another league being formed. I think football is a really big deal to these schools, as it is the only sport that brings alumns back to campus (in large numbers) which helps fund raising.

I think that's a more reasonable position for HSC, with only 9 sports total, than it is for schools that are playing 19 or 20+ sports total like most of the football playing schools in the ODAC. That's a whole lot of teams that need to be on the move. And remember, you need to maintain access ratios for all sports. How many USA South teams sponsor lacrosse? T&F? Swimming? Women's golf? The conference doesn't, so some schools may, but you need to draw in enough of those, with the "rump" ODAC schools, to get to the access ratio.

It's hugely complex. I'm just not sure that football drives that much interest and money, outside a couple schools, to make it worthwhile.

I will say that if they could attract a "football affiliate" I'm guessing the ODAC would have. So I'm assuming they couldn't internally agree on who to try to poach, or couldn't get one of the obvious VA schools to switch over just for football (seems most likely to me). Frankly the USASAC schools don't have to answer the call. They are fine. And I can't imagine why they would answer the call unless they are being invited for all sports. So that leaves the same issue that you need a whole new conference where you pull several USASAC schools, but taking the football ODAC schools, plus one USASAC school, doesn't work for women's sports. H-SC puts you below the access ratio assuming you could get the USASAC school to add all the other sports the ODAC sponsors. So now you are trying to pull multiple USASAC schools, which drops them below AQ in some sports, and hoping to pull not just the football schools but others from the ODAC, like the non-football lax schools, so you can get enough in all sports.

Uggh. Brutal to even think about.

[tigerFanAlso2]

yep, brutal. hopefully the odac has some very bright minds capable of coming up with a solution. 8 to 9 game schedule most be avoided, playing the same school twice is really a bad, bad deal, probably worse than a 8 game schedule. Maybe odac should drop football in lieu of putting out an inferior product; odac champion 5-1 odac record/7-1 overall,  3 off weekends. Just sounds awful, in fact, I would lose interest very fast.

Maybe, just maybe, odac can play some local high school teams to round out the schedule !!!!!!

Obviously I'm a little pissed off with the odac for not having, offering any solutions to it's football playing members.

[jknezek]

yep, brutal. hopefully the odac has some very bright minds capable of coming up with a solution. 8 to 9 game schedule most be avoided, playing the same school twice is really a bad, bad deal, probably worse than a 8 game schedule. Maybe odac should drop football in lieu of putting out an inferior product; odac champion 5-1 odac record/7-1 overall,  3 off weekends. Just sounds awful, in fact, I would lose interest very fast.

Maybe, just maybe, odac can play some local high school teams to round out the schedule !!!!!!

Obviously I'm a little pissed off with the odac for not having, offering any solutions to it's football playing members.

There may not be a solution right now. And having 8 games is better than no games. But I still believe it's not that hard to get 9 games, though you may have to travel a bit and play Apprentice regularly. Getting 10 is going to be the real challenge.

As for fans losing interest, I think that is secondary in AD concerns to simply having kids playing football. Especially at schools that need 100+ player roster and 50+ first years to make enrollment targets.

[tigerFanAlso2]

you are more level headed than I. I rather watch paint dry than play an eight game schedule. have absolutely no interest in that at all. if it comes to this, odac schools will have a more difficult time recruiting football players. the incoming classes will shrink, odac schools will pay a price. schools need to associate with a conference that protects against such things and can react quickly with a solution when a member school leaves.

[jknezek]

you are more level headed than I. I rather watch paint dry than play an eight game schedule. have absolutely no interest in that at all. if it comes to this, odac schools will have a more difficult time recruiting football players. the incoming classes will shrink, odac schools will pay a price. schools need to associate with a conference that protects against such things and can react quickly with a solution when a member school leaves.

I think you are right that it will have an effect on recruiting. Whether that can be made up in other areas is probably a school by school issue. For example, I don't think dropping football would have any long term effect on W&L, but I admit they are the ODAC outlier. Some schools would have serious problems, others would be fine, just like Roanoke and Lynchburg. I wouldn't want to be E&H...

[tigerFanAlso2]

USAS and ODAC should merge into one conference with North & South Divisions (in all sports), league title decided between division winners and include CNU &SVA in the combined league.

[jknezek]

USAS and ODAC should merge into one conference with North & South Divisions (in all sports), league title decided between division winners and include CNU &SVA in the combined league.

Uggh. That makes some very limited sense for football from the ODAC point of view, not so much for the other sports or the USAS point of view. The access number is the same across sports. So take men's soccer. The conference AQ threshold is 6.5. The ODAC already has 12 teams, conceding almost 1 entire AQ. A combined ODAC/USAS would have 23 teams, 25 teams if you include the two others, who probably wouldn't want anything to do with a mega conference like this. All fighting for one AQ. Why do that to yourselves over many, many sports to subsidize football?

Or if you don't think soccer is all that important, take men's basketball. You want to take 24 teams fighting for one AQ? That doesn't even mention the travel issues. Shenandoah to Huntingdon is a long freaking way unless you aren't planning to have any crossover until the conference tournament? And if that is the case, why do it? Having two conferences makes much more sense than having no crossover except a tournament final.

You are trying to subsidize football much too hard. No, the ODAC has the same choices it has faced for a while.

1) Poach a USAS team just for football
2) Over stuff the already 2nd largest athletic conference in DIII by adding a USAS team in all sports (I heard from a source I expect has absolutely no inside information that this is a non-starter since the schools without football would vote it down. It makes logical sense however)
3) Convince an existing ODAC member to add football
4) Convince SVA to become a football affiliate

Anything else blows up what is an entirely too satisfactory conference in 23 other sports.

[tigerFanAlso2]

option one makes no sense for the USAS school
option two is most likely
option 3 ain't going to happen
option 4 - why not "stuff" them in for all sports

[jknezek]

option one makes no sense for the USAS school
option two is most likely
option 3 ain't going to happen
option 4 - why not "stuff" them in for all sports

For the same reason that Option 2 hasn't happened.... But, they play the rest of their sports in a reasonable distance league. They play football in a very bad fit. I would think there might be enough of a carrot to pry them loose just for football, provided that didn't have ramifications for the other CAC football schools in the NJAC.

I still think this is the most likely option. I have no idea if they some contract with the NJAC that needs to be filled, or a contract with the other CAC football schools, but it seems like the NJAC should be happy to cut them loose, and they should be happy to go to a league that makes more geographic, and competitive, sense.

[y_jack_lok]

Maybe the ODAC will have to become more like the NESCAC and have a 9 game schedule -- 6 conference, 3 non-conference -- and skip the post-season: http://www.d3football.com/notables/2017/04/nescac-adds-ninth-game

[tigerFanAlso2]

if odac turns into another nescac league, i'll turn off the tv and go to bed. no postseason makes no sense even though odac has little to no success in the post season. I think it would be a deal killer in the recruiting battles vs. the usas schools, and others

[jknezek]

Maybe the ODAC will have to become more like the NESCAC and have a 9 game schedule -- 6 conference, 3 non-conference -- and skip the post-season: http://www.d3football.com/notables/2017/04/nescac-adds-ninth-game

Why would the ODAC skip the post-season? Why have 3 OOC games if you are going to skip the post season? The NESCAC does it because they are special boys and girls and feel like they must copy the Ivy League. Plus they have no OOC games so they only play within their own league. The ODAC will not mandate a 9 game schedule. There is no point. It might simply be hard for teams to get a 10th game.

[y_jack_lok]

^^^ Sorry, I just happened upon that article and thought about this conversation. So you are saying that the ODAC teams might have to "settle" for a nine game schedule, rather than mandate it, due to the challenges of playing a 4th OOC game or getting an 8th football school?

I imagine that the football players in the NESCAC would like to play a 10 game schedule and have a shot at post-season play even if the conference won't go for it.

[jknezek]

Yes and probably. 

[wally_wabash]

There may not be a solution right now. And having 8 games is better than no games. But I still believe it's not that hard to get 9 games, though you may have to travel a bit and play Apprentice regularly. Getting 10 is going to be the real challenge.

We've seen some other examples of ways that the ODAC could complete a ten game schedule.  The WIAC not long ago mandated playing a conference opponent in a non-conference game which got their members to a full 10 game schedule.  That's fairly unsavory, but it's an option if a 10 game schedule is strongly desired.  Another direction here would be to have an agreement with the SAA or the USASC to sprinkle in some non-league games with the ODAC deeper into the season.  The NCAC and 4-team UAA (RIP) had exactly this arrangement for a handful of years a while ago.  That scenario relies on the goodwill of other conference commissioners, but it isn't out of the question.