FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[y_jack_lok]

W&L cancelled all sports during fall semester. Not in the slightest surprised.

Here's the press release.

https://generalssports.com/news/2020/7/10/general-washington-and-lee-university-update-on-fall-2020-competition.aspx

Gotta think that the ODAC is reviewing its earlier announcement on fall aports.

[HSCTiger fan]

HSC has an enrollment of approximately 1100 students.  About 300 of these students play a sport. I don't know an exact number but I'd guess about 100 to 125 are freshmen. Point being if half of these freshmen decide to save the nearly $30,000.00 it cost to attend this fall it's going to leave a huge budget shortfall. I would think HSC, WL, and RMC can absorb this loss for the short run. How about the rest of the ODAC?  Who's in the worst financial situation to handle losing 50 to 60 men and 30 to 40 women?  I would think this potentially could be devastating to many D3 schools not just ODAC programs.

[Pat Coleman]

HSC has an enrollment of approximately 1100 students.  About 300 of these students play a sport. I don't know an exact number but I'd guess about 100 to 125 are freshmen. Point being if half of these freshmen decide to save the nearly $30,000.00 it cost to attend this fall it's going to leave a huge budget shortfall. I would think HSC, WL, and RMC can absorb this loss for the short run. How about the rest of the ODAC?  Who's in the worst financial situation to handle losing 50 to 60 men and 30 to 40 women?  I would think this potentially could be devastating to many D3 schools not just ODAC programs.

I suspect that's why many D-III schools have not canceled fall sports as of yet.

[jknezek]

HSC has an enrollment of approximately 1100 students.  About 300 of these students play a sport. I don't know an exact number but I'd guess about 100 to 125 are freshmen. Point being if half of these freshmen decide to save the nearly $30,000.00 it cost to attend this fall it's going to leave a huge budget shortfall. I would think HSC, WL, and RMC can absorb this loss for the short run. How about the rest of the ODAC?  Who's in the worst financial situation to handle losing 50 to 60 men and 30 to 40 women?  I would think this potentially could be devastating to many D3 schools not just ODAC programs.

I suspect that's why many D-III schools have not canceled fall sports as of yet.

Yep. I posted in the soccer thread that I think a lot of schools will string this along until the athletes get to campus, then go a week later and give it a real short go before a low threshold for failure is reached and they call it all off.

Of course those schools are cursing at the ones not willing to play the game because if the dominoes keep falling they won't even have a credible schedule to dangle out there.

I get it, these schools need the enrollment dollars. But it's not going to look good in the end.

[jmcozenlaw]

HSC has an enrollment of approximately 1100 students.  About 300 of these students play a sport. I don't know an exact number but I'd guess about 100 to 125 are freshmen. Point being if half of these freshmen decide to save the nearly $30,000.00 it cost to attend this fall it's going to leave a huge budget shortfall. I would think HSC, WL, and RMC can absorb this loss for the short run. How about the rest of the ODAC?  Who's in the worst financial situation to handle losing 50 to 60 men and 30 to 40 women?  I would think this potentially could be devastating to many D3 schools not just ODAC programs.

I suspect that's why many D-III schools have not canceled fall sports as of yet.

Yep. I posted in the soccer thread that I think a lot of schools will string this along until the athletes get to campus, then go a week later and give it a real short go before a low threshold for failure is reached and they call it all off.

Of course those schools are cursing at the ones not willing to play the game because if the dominoes keep falling they won't even have a credible schedule to dangle out there.

I get it, these schools need the enrollment dollars. But it's not going to look good in the end.

Pull the plug at this point..................you might get some kids transferring to a cheaper alternative (cc's ) for a year or taking a gap year. String it out as long as you can and the kids are kind of stuck. Sort of dirty pool if you already know what you're most likely doing but are holding off. I smell a lawsuit or three!!

[jknezek]

HSC has an enrollment of approximately 1100 students.  About 300 of these students play a sport. I don't know an exact number but I'd guess about 100 to 125 are freshmen. Point being if half of these freshmen decide to save the nearly $30,000.00 it cost to attend this fall it's going to leave a huge budget shortfall. I would think HSC, WL, and RMC can absorb this loss for the short run. How about the rest of the ODAC?  Who's in the worst financial situation to handle losing 50 to 60 men and 30 to 40 women?  I would think this potentially could be devastating to many D3 schools not just ODAC programs.

I suspect that's why many D-III schools have not canceled fall sports as of yet.

Yep. I posted in the soccer thread that I think a lot of schools will string this along until the athletes get to campus, then go a week later and give it a real short go before a low threshold for failure is reached and they call it all off.

Of course those schools are cursing at the ones not willing to play the game because if the dominoes keep falling they won't even have a credible schedule to dangle out there.

I get it, these schools need the enrollment dollars. But it's not going to look good in the end.

Pull the plug at this point..................you might get some kids transferring to a cheaper alternative (cc's ) for a year or taking a gap year. String it out as long as you can and the kids are kind of stuck. Sort of dirty pool if you already know what you're most likely doing but are holding off. I smell a lawsuit or three!!

I doubt there will be a successful lawsuit. It would be hard to prove, at this point, that possible enrollees wouldn't be expected to have prior knowledge of the possibility of a season cut short or not happening.

You would have a hard time proving that the schools defrauded them by trying to have a season. I mean, all the spring seasons were cut short, so there is ample warning you may not get what you want. And most schools have put out warnings that emergency distancing measures, including cancelling or modifying athletics, are possible. But even if they didn't explicitly mention athletics, social distancing precludes almost all sports.

I doubt you could win anything on that basis right now.

[thescottharris]

All I have to say is I'm glad I got out of college athletics when I did back in January 2019. Guilford and Roanoke both just laid off their heard SID, Vanderbilt dissolved their entire athletics communications office (that's a disaster waiting to happen), sports and various support positions are being cut even at prestigious schools like Stanford, some schools have closed for good, etc.

If more schools start cancelling sports in the fall, you can guarantee more positions and sports are going to be getting axed across the country. There's only so long you can justify keeping some of these support positions when the teams aren't playing. I foresaw a reckoning coming eventually further down the road, I figured it would be from a pure cost of attendance bubble bursting because it's quite absurd how much it costs even in the best of economic times, not because of a pandemic fueling a cost of attendance bubble bursting.

[thescottharris]

\

HSC has an enrollment of approximately 1100 students.  About 300 of these students play a sport. I don't know an exact number but I'd guess about 100 to 125 are freshmen. Point being if half of these freshmen decide to save the nearly $30,000.00 it cost to attend this fall it's going to leave a huge budget shortfall. I would think HSC, WL, and RMC can absorb this loss for the short run. How about the rest of the ODAC?  Who's in the worst financial situation to handle losing 50 to 60 men and 30 to 40 women?  I would think this potentially could be devastating to many D3 schools not just ODAC programs.

I suspect that's why many D-III schools have not canceled fall sports as of yet.

Yep. I posted in the soccer thread that I think a lot of schools will string this along until the athletes get to campus, then go a week later and give it a real short go before a low threshold for failure is reached and they call it all off.

Of course those schools are cursing at the ones not willing to play the game because if the dominoes keep falling they won't even have a credible schedule to dangle out there.

I get it, these schools need the enrollment dollars. But it's not going to look good in the end.

Pull the plug at this point..................you might get some kids transferring to a cheaper alternative (cc's ) for a year or taking a gap year. String it out as long as you can and the kids are kind of stuck. Sort of dirty pool if you already know what you're most likely doing but are holding off. I smell a lawsuit or three!!

I doubt there will be a successful lawsuit. It would be hard to prove, at this point, that possible enrollees wouldn't be expected to have prior knowledge of the possibility of a season cut short or not happening.

You would have a hard time proving that the schools defrauded them by trying to have a season. I mean, all the spring seasons were cut short, so there is ample warning you may not get what you want. And most schools have put out warnings that emergency distancing measures, including cancelling or modifying athletics, are possible. But even if they didn't explicitly mention athletics, social distancing precludes almost all sports.

I doubt you could win anything on that basis right now.

More students need to be encouraged to do AP and dual enrollment courses in high school and going to CC after graduating HS with the the cost of attendance at most schools. It's insane what it costs to go to college these days.

I entered in my HS academic information and a rough estimate of what my family's 2003 investments adjusted for inflation to today's dollars on the H-SC price calculator. Now my academic resume wasn't quite good enough to get into a school like UVA or W&L, but it wasn't far off from that, mostly because I mailed it in on the SAT and didn't prep any at all (I had reasons, that's another story that I'm sure no one cares about).

But with that information, I would have to cover right at $25K a year to go to H-SC in loans, which is half of what my parents combined yearly income would have been since my father was retired for health reasons by the time I went to college. No way in hell I could ever afford that without going into catastrophic debt for likely decades upon graduating.

[jmcozenlaw]

HSC has an enrollment of approximately 1100 students.  About 300 of these students play a sport. I don't know an exact number but I'd guess about 100 to 125 are freshmen. Point being if half of these freshmen decide to save the nearly $30,000.00 it cost to attend this fall it's going to leave a huge budget shortfall. I would think HSC, WL, and RMC can absorb this loss for the short run. How about the rest of the ODAC?  Who's in the worst financial situation to handle losing 50 to 60 men and 30 to 40 women?  I would think this potentially could be devastating to many D3 schools not just ODAC programs.

I suspect that's why many D-III schools have not canceled fall sports as of yet.

Yep. I posted in the soccer thread that I think a lot of schools will string this along until the athletes get to campus, then go a week later and give it a real short go before a low threshold for failure is reached and they call it all off.

Of course those schools are cursing at the ones not willing to play the game because if the dominoes keep falling they won't even have a credible schedule to dangle out there.

I get it, these schools need the enrollment dollars. But it's not going to look good in the end.

Pull the plug at this point..................you might get some kids transferring to a cheaper alternative (cc's ) for a year or taking a gap year. String it out as long as you can and the kids are kind of stuck. Sort of dirty pool if you already know what you're most likely doing but are holding off. I smell a lawsuit or three!!

I doubt there will be a successful lawsuit. It would be hard to prove, at this point, that possible enrollees wouldn't be expected to have prior knowledge of the possibility of a season cut short or not happening.

You would have a hard time proving that the schools defrauded them by trying to have a season. I mean, all the spring seasons were cut short, so there is ample warning you may not get what you want. And most schools have put out warnings that emergency distancing measures, including cancelling or modifying athletics, are possible. But even if they didn't explicitly mention athletics, social distancing precludes almost all sports.

I doubt you could win anything on that basis right now.

Forget the sports piece entirely for a second as it really is so secondary to why kids go to college (or why they should be going to college). Schools that know there is about a 95% chance they will be teaching online should make the students and parents aware of that now. It gives them an opportunity to (1) gap year and save a year of eligibility.........some need five years to finish the bachelors, while others can get a jump on a masters; (2) do the same thing at a local community college for much cheaper or (3) pull the transfer trigger.

Rutgers is an example. They let students and parents know a couple of weeks ago that 98% of instruction for the fall semester, AT LEAST, would be online. It gave plenty of time for the parents and students to determine the best course of action. I have a friend with a son who plays for the hockey team. He's a smart kid but struggled a bit this past March - May. Hockey has been cancelled. They have decided that he will be attending the local community college at least for the fall and all 15 credits will transfer. He's going to be at home anyway. Why pay Rutgers out of state tuition for online classes when he can go in person, for the same courses to the community college 10 minutes from his house at a MUCH cheaper rate?

Letting parents and students know well in advance gives them the time to evaluate all choices. Are their a few smaller schools that are waiting until the 8th inning given the pain that the loss of room and board and fee revenue (and students who back out of attending) would cause if they go down the online path for at least this first semester? We'd be foolish to think that's not happening..........hidden behind the cloak of "maybe things will get more positive if we hold off 4-6 weeks in making the painful announcement".

The word needs to come in the next two weeks by EVERY school in this country!

[jmcozenlaw]

All I have to say is I'm glad I got out of college athletics when I did back in January 2019. Guilford and Roanoke both just laid off their heard SID, Vanderbilt dissolved their entire athletics communications office (that's a disaster waiting to happen), sports and various support positions are being cut even at prestigious schools like Stanford, some schools have closed for good, etc.

If more schools start cancelling sports in the fall, you can guarantee more positions and sports are going to be getting axed across the country. There's only so long you can justify keeping some of these support positions when the teams aren't playing. I foresaw a reckoning coming eventually further down the road, I figured it would be from a pure cost of attendance bubble bursting because it's quite absurd how much it costs even in the best of economic times, not because of a pandemic fueling a cost of attendance bubble bursting.

.......................and our five local community colleges (in the suburban counties that surround Philadelphia) are bursting at the seems and growing like crazy. They can't buy land fast enough and are now opening up MULTIPLE community college SATELLITE campuses. Community college satellite campuses.........who da thunk it?

While these problems were exacerbated by the pandemic.................they were always there just waiting to come home to roost. These issues will be with us for many years to come. Many administrators say forever, unless married couples fire up the "baby machine" again. I think this and future generations are too smart to do THAT again, given the insane costs of raising kids.

Higher level education needs to reinvent itself or this will become a major calamity for many schools!

[MUC57]

Fans of W&L

I apologize to all of you for a post I put on the OAC board. I thought I was being funny but instead I was just being stupid. I don't mind the negative k's but I DO mind if I offended anyone.
I deleted the post. 🚽

[jamtod]

Fans of W&L

I apologize to all of you for a post I put on the OAC board. I thought I was being funny but instead I was just being stupid. I don't mind the negative k's but I DO mind if I offended anyone.
I deleted the post. 🚽

Don't be such a softy MUC. It was a fine joke, probably got dinged from those vindictive John Carroll posters. Half a mind to ding you for being a weenie though 😂

[jknezek]

Fans of W&L

I apologize to all of you for a post I put on the OAC board. I thought I was being funny but instead I was just being stupid. I don't mind the negative k's but I DO mind if I offended anyone.
I deleted the post. 🚽

I'm the only W&L fan that is active as far as I know and I certainly didn't ding you.

[MUC57]

Fans of W&L

I apologize to all of you for a post I put on the OAC board. I thought I was being funny but instead I was just being stupid. I don't mind the negative k's but I DO mind if I offended anyone.
I deleted the post. 🚽

Don't be such a softy MUC. It was a fine joke, probably got dinged from those vindictive John Carroll posters. Half a mind to ding you for being a weenie though 😂

jamtod

You're one of the few posters that can call me a weenie and get away with it.
Stay well, old friend. My buddy, my pal, my chum, board brother. 🍺 🍺 🇺🇸

[jamtod]

Fans of W&L

I apologize to all of you for a post I put on the OAC board. I thought I was being funny but instead I was just being stupid. I don't mind the negative k's but I DO mind if I offended anyone.
I deleted the post. 🚽

Don't be such a softy MUC. It was a fine joke, probably got dinged from those vindictive John Carroll posters. Half a mind to ding you for being a weenie though 😂

jamtod

You're one of the few posters that can call me a weenie and get away with it.
Stay well, old friend. My buddy, my pal, my chum, board brother. 🍺 🍺 🇺🇸

Duly noted. I'll just be sure not to call you Dr Muc. Don't want to get personal with my clever jabs