FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Trenches]

Let's let Guilford play someone who's receiving a vote before we go all ga-ga.

Remember, religion major, at least in those years Hampden-Sydney got votes, they were coming off an eight-win season. What is Guilford coming off of??

Not that it was an 8 win season, but GC did finish by winning 5 of last 6 (the loss being to BC). That's nothing to overlook for a team that started 0-4. I could be wrong, but i thought ferrum had received a few votes before the season opener. And it's not like the rest of the schedule is easy:

2005 results of GC's 2006 Schedule
Ferrum (9-2, 6-1 USAC) Co-Champs, playoff team
@ Methodist (8-2, 6-1 USAC) Co-Champs
@ Averrett (7-3, 5-2 USAC)
@ HSC (8-2, 4-2 ODAC) lone losses to BC and W&L
Greensboro (1-9, 1-6 USAC) cross town rival always play tough
BC (10-2, 6-0 ODAC) Champs, playoff team
@ W&L (7-3, 4-2 ODAC)
... that's as tough a 7 game start to a season that I know
@ RMC (2-8, 1-5 ODAC) off to a decent start in '06
CUA (3-7, 1-5 ODAC) 2-0 to start '06
E&H (1-9, 1-5 ODAC)

.. to say that GC's schedule is easy is a definite slight. I would love to see both GC and BC 5-0 headed into the weekend in Greensboro. Even if they were to lose there and still finish 9-1 for the season, I would still strongly consider them for the top 25 and a playoff spot.

[Llamaguy]

You are right about the schedule being tough from an ODAC/USAC point of view. I believe Pat is pointing out that these are not strong conferences nationally. I would bet that the first 7 games of a team in the WIAC,OAC,ASC, etc are much tougher than any ODAC teams' schedule.
I know BC had to schedule tougher teams, ie. add CNU, drop Maryville, etc to get the National cred. in the polls. I would also point out that last year's records are last years records and HSC is not the team of 2005. That being said, if Guilford and BC can get through this week I agree that two undefeated teams will meet in October. With the playoff selection criteria both teams having 1 loss would have a good shot at getting into the 2006 playoffs.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

hasanova -

No question Methodist and Ferrum are stronger opponents than Shenandoah and McDaniel.  This week will hopefully give us an idea of where Bridgewater and Guilford really stand, with games against Ferrum and Averett, respectively.

I think it'll be tough to compare the outcomes of BC and GC versus Ferrum, especially since the Quakers had to open up against them (always a tough measuring stick, no matter who you play) ... but if BC loses to Ferrum, that WILL tell us something ... or if BC blows out Ferrum (which I don't see happening).  I think Averett will be Guilford's best game (other than BC), so hopefully the MUC and Wesley losses didn't kill their fire.  If you get a pumped up Averett squad, then I see a really good game and measuring stick for the Quakers.  If GC wins (and statistically, they're once again impressive), I'll definitely be a believer.  But that's from an ODAC perspective, not a national one.  National voters won't really bat an eye at beating three USAC schools (and like Pat said, coming off a 5-5 season).  But beat a ranked Bridgewater squad, then you'll have their attention.

[pakownr97]

Llama,

I didn't notice the field had a bigger crown than before.  I sit up high and it wasn't noticable from where I was.  But please, don't think I am down on #13, I am a big fan of his, that is why I have expected even more out of him so far.  I still think he will lead us deep into the post-season, but as I say below, that is really looking too far ahead.

I didn't mean to say that Guilford should be in the Top 25, I just thought they had earned more than one point.  I really think we are jumping the gun to talk about playoffs before the ODAC season even starts.  Let's let this thing play out, then we will complain if an ODAC team gets slighted.

[hasanova]

hasanova -

No question Methodist and Ferrum are stronger opponents than Shenandoah and McDaniel.  This week will hopefully give us an idea of where Bridgewater and Guilford really stand, with games against Ferrum and Averett, respectively.

I think it'll be tough to compare the outcomes of BC and GC versus Ferrum, especially since the Quakers had to open up against them (always a tough measuring stick, no matter who you play) ... but if BC loses to Ferrum, that WILL tell us something ... or if BC blows out Ferrum (which I don't see happening).  I think Averett will be Guilford's best game (other than BC), so hopefully the MUC and Wesley losses didn't kill their fire.  If you get a pumped up Averett squad, then I see a really good game and measuring stick for the Quakers.  If GC wins (and statistically, they're once again impressive), I'll definitely be a believer.  But that's from an ODAC perspective, not a national one.  National voters won't really bat an eye at beating three USAC schools (and like Pat said, coming off a 5-5 season).  But beat a ranked Bridgewater squad, then you'll have their attention.

kid, I agree with your points.  I'm not the one saying Guilford deserves to be ranked.  All I said was I'm glad they got a point in the poll.  I think it's too early and they haven't proven anything against the toughest competition and over a sustained period of time.  All I'm saying is the Quakers appear to be a good team with a lot of upside potential.  I think they're worthy of being on the radar screen, but not of being ranked just yet.

[miz]

Never been to Ferrum.  Can anybody tell me what the parking/tailgaiting/seating arrangement is at their stadium?

[muchacho]

A little note regarding Catholic's win on Saturday. Senior Reuben Simmons rushed for 125 yards and a TD, to give Catholic its first 100 yard performance by a back since Ed Smith ran for 167 yards on Guilford back on November 11, 2003. That has been way too long between 100 yard performances, and is a good sign for Catholic's offense. I believe they have already rushed for more yards than they did in all of 2005, as well as matched the non-forfeit win total.
Its also a great thing to see Reuben get that result. He has been at Catholic for 3 years now since Sienna shut down their program, and was never given a shot before. Despite being an upper classmen who didn't get playing time, Reuben worked his butt off on the scout team while many of his teammates wondered why he wasn't running plays with the #1 offense.

[hasanova]

Never been to Ferrum.  Can anybody tell me what the parking/tailgaiting/seating arrangement is at their stadium?

I've been there.  Ferrum is a very small community just west of Rocky Mount, so there a lot of open space.  The town and the college are very easy to find.  The stadium is nestled against a hillside on the back side of the campus.  I haven't been there in a few years, but unless they've changed something, there is a pretty good size parking lot (grass lot) behind the stands which are only on one side (west).  The stands are at least 20-25 rows high (I think) and I believe run almost the length of the field, so even though it only has seating on one side there are a good number of seats.  Since it's on a hillside, you walk in the gate at the top and then walk down to your seat.  It's only a hundred yards or so from the parking lot to the entry gate.  Looked like lots of places to tailgate especially if you go on the upper side of the lot near the tree line.  There is also ample space to park on the paved roads that wind through the campus and around the mountain heritage museum which is near the pond.  You shouldn't have any trouble at all finding something within easy walking distance.  Enjoy the game!

[Trenches]

You are right about the schedule being tough from an ODAC/USAC point of view. I believe Pat is pointing out that these are not strong conferences nationally. I would bet that the first 7 games of a team in the WIAC,OAC,ASC, etc are much tougher than any ODAC teams' schedule.
I know BC had to schedule tougher teams, ie. add CNU, drop Maryville, etc to get the National cred. in the polls. I would also point out that last year's records are last years records and HSC is not the team of 2005. That being said, if Guilford and BC can get through this week I agree that two undefeated teams will meet in October. With the playoff selection criteria both teams having 1 loss would have a good shot at getting into the 2006 playoffs.

I understand what you are saying. But I'm not arguing that they are the best team in the country. I'm just saying that if they keep winning, they should be considered for top 25 (near the bottom).  Should they go 9-1, giving a loss to BC (#10 or maybe higher at the time), they should def be considered for top 25. That's all. I'm not claiming a stagg bowl bid after 2 games.    haha

As far as last years records... I used them because it's so early in the season and that's generally considered the go to for an early "quality of win" rating, as the real QoW won't been seen till later in the season.

[Trenches]

hasanova -

No question Methodist and Ferrum are stronger opponents than Shenandoah and McDaniel.  This week will hopefully give us an idea of where Bridgewater and Guilford really stand, with games against Ferrum and Averett, respectively.

I think it'll be tough to compare the outcomes of BC and GC versus Ferrum, especially since the Quakers had to open up against them (always a tough measuring stick, no matter who you play) ... but if BC loses to Ferrum, that WILL tell us something ... or if BC blows out Ferrum (which I don't see happening).  I think Averett will be Guilford's best game (other than BC), so hopefully the MUC and Wesley losses didn't kill their fire.  If you get a pumped up Averett squad, then I see a really good game and measuring stick for the Quakers.  If GC wins (and statistically, they're once again impressive), I'll definitely be a believer.  But that's from an ODAC perspective, not a national one.  National voters won't really bat an eye at beating three USAC schools (and like Pat said, coming off a 5-5 season).  But beat a ranked Bridgewater squad, then you'll have their attention.

kid, I agree with your points.  I'm not the one saying Guilford deserves to be ranked.  All I said was I'm glad they got a point in the poll.  I think it's too early and they haven't proven anything against the toughest competition and over a sustained period of time.  All I'm saying is the Quakers appear to be a good team with a lot of upside potential.  I think they're worthy of being on the radar screen, but not of being ranked just yet.

perfectly said hasa. thank you.

[Trenches]

Never been to Ferrum.  Can anybody tell me what the parking/tailgaiting/seating arrangement is at their stadium?

I've been there.  Ferrum is a very small community just west of Rocky Mount, so there a lot of open space.  The town and the college are very easy to find.  The stadium is nestled against a hillside on the back side of the campus.  I haven't been there in a few years, but unless they've changed something, there is a pretty good size parking lot (grass lot) behind the stands which are only on one side (west).  The stands are at least 20-25 rows high (I think) and I believe run almost the length of the field, so even though it only has seating on one side there are a good number of seats.  Since it's on a hillside, you walk in the gate at the top and then walk down to your seat.  It's only a hundred yards or so from the parking lot to the entry gate.  Looked like lots of places to tailgate especially if you go on the upper side of the lot near the tree line.  There is also ample space to park on the paved roads that wind through the campus and around the mountain heritage museum which is near the pond.  You shouldn't have any trouble at all finding something within easy walking distance.  Enjoy the game!

miz and hasa,
they have metal stands on the visitors side now too. But yes the home side has plenty of seating, should you need more for the BC faithful.

[mizzou_mafia]

It's not often that a team starts a year off with 2 shutouts.  So I looked around a little bit to see how often it's happened in the last 5 years, and how those teams have done in the next game, and for the season.

Nice work mizzou.  If I can't find much of anything else, may I use this for my "Statistically Speaking" on my web site?  Of course I'll give credit where credit is due.

Absolutely Matt!  Don't feel like you need to ask about using anything I post on a public forum :-)  I'm only too happy to contribute to the bridgewaterfootball.com!

[Trenches]

MC will still have a good season.  They're a fine  team and it was a tough road test for Guilford.  The Quakers had an advantage with one game under their belt and a more experienced QB.  Speaking of Vogelbach, he now has 4290 yards passing and has accounted for 48 TD's (46 passing) - in 12 games!  Can you imagine what his stats will be after he plays 40 (or more!) games in college?  From a Guilford fan's point-of-view, it sure is fun to watch. 

hasa (and all),
Saw this post in the USAC board and got me thinking about stats... LOOOOOOOONG way to go. But fun to look at 

Total Off. in a college career
Player, Team (Division) G Plays Yards TDR‡ Yd. PG
Steve McNair, Alcorn St. (I-AA) 42 2,055 16,823 152 400.5
Tim Rattay, Louisiana Tech (I-A) 33 1,705 12,618 117 382.4
Justin Peery, Westminster (Mo.) (III) 39 2,001 13,645 *166 349.9

Thus far Josh is avg. 368 yds/gm

Career Yards
Player, Team (Division) Plays Yards Avg.
Timmy Chang, Hawaii (I-A) *2,587 16,910 6.54
Steve McNair, Alcorn St. (I-AA) 2,055 16,823 8.19
Bruce Eugene, Grambling (I-AA) 1,998 14,720 7.37
Ty Detmer, Brigham Young (I-A)  1,795 14,665 8.17

On the pace hes at, Josh would obtain 14,720 yds through 40 games

Career Passing yards
Player, Team (Division) Years Att. Cmp. Int. Pct. Yds. TD
Timmy Chang, Hawaii (I-A) *2,436 *1,388 80 .570 17,072 117
Ty Detmer, Brigham Young (I-A) 1,530 958 65 .626 15,031 121
Steve McNair, Alcorn St. (I-AA) 1,680 929 58 .553 14,496 119
Bruce Eugene, Grambling (I-AA) 1,657 872 38 .526 13,513 140

On the pace hes at, Josh would obtain 14,300 yds through 40 games

Career passing TD's
Player, Team (Division) Years Att. Cmp. Int. Pct. Yds. TD
Justin Peery, Westminster (Mo.) 1,669 1,012 57 .606 13,262 148
Bill Borchert, Mount Union (III) 1,009 671 17 .665 10,201 141
Bruce Eugene, Grambling (I-AA) 1,657 872 38 .526 13,513 140

On the pace hes at, Josh would obtain 153 passing tds through 40 games

Like I said... a long way off. But funny to put it into perspective the start hes off to. 

[hasanova]

Nice work, Trenches.  There are a lot of factors to consider (injuries, receiving corps, schedules, etc.), but I think most college QBs have lower stats their first  two years than they do in their last two seasons of eligibility.  The added experience is crucial to their success and decision-making.  Really scary when you think about it like that.

[Trenches]

Nice work, Trenches.  There are a lot of factors to consider (injuries, receiving corps, schedules, etc.), but I think most college QBs have lower stats their first  two years than they do in their last two seasons of eligibility.  The added experience is crucial to their success and decision-making.  Really scary when you think about it like that.

     Yeah, I fully agree. Having Barnette, Rushing, Joyner, and co. at WR. Barnette alone makes some amazing receptions that would otherwise be incompletions. Having had the chance to really see him grow the last two years has been amazing. You'll laugh when I say this but... he has one of the best set of hands I have EVER seen. The kid is capable of catching anything thrown his way.
     Like you said, "most college QBs have lower stats their first  two years," but having those WR's has certainly been the difference. Inside word on Joyner: was originally planning on graduating this may with a semester of eligibility left... but is considering staying the extra semester to finish out his college career. It would help GC and Vogelbach out tremendously to have him stay the extra season. Although you would think some top (D3) recruits coming out of HS would love to have a chance to hook up with a QB like Vogelbach over the next few seasons.
      Like I said, it's a long long way off and by no means do i expect the numbers to stay at that level through 4 years... but amazing to see the caliber of play he has played at since joining the Guilford squad.

Also interesting to note... as we all know it took some time for the GC squad to gel last season. Vogs first 3 games looked like:
@ ferrum - 22-42, 1 td, 3 ints, 3 fumbles 258 yds
Methodist - 21-42, 3 tds, 1 int, 265 yds
Averrett - 21-40, 2 tds, 1 int, 214 yds
HSC was the game where GC really took a big step. As did Vogelbach.  He went 14-25, 5 td's, 2 ints, 265 yds.

Since the HSC game he hasn't thrown below 334 yds(5 tds in that game).  Should be a great test this weekend to see how far the GC squad has come.