FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[pakownr97]

BC alum should make sure to check the Class News section of your current alumni mag...you will find a wedding portrait of one our most prolific D3 posters and BC Football backers...

Yeah ... who is that sexy beast?!

Well,

I'll agree with the beast part.

Gotcha!

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Yikes ... too quiet on here.  No posts for 24 hours, this isn't acceptable!!

Aside from the anti-climatic HSC-BC game, as Llama put it, here is what I found interesting after looking through the box scores on Sunday...

- Methodist ran the ball 43 times (gaining 3.6 yards per carry) and passed the ball only 12 times, and still beat Emory & Henry 16-8.  Sad.  The Wasps "stud" Mount Union transfer ran the ball 10 times for 1.8 yards per carry.  I guess we're giving Monty another year?

- I hate to say it, but W&L's freshman QB (R.J. Varner) did a better job than senior Hunter Dawkins who left late in the 2nd quarter after being hit by R-MC's Kyle Wiggins.  When Dawkins went out, W&L was up 9-3.  They ended up winning 33-10.

- What's up with preseason All-Americans from W&L?  Through four games, WR Jack Martin has only 11 catches.  Tailback and returner Stuart Sitterson is averaging only 2.6 yards a carry and 7.1 yards per punt return.  Hardly AA numbers.

- Josh Vogelbach's five INTs versus Greensboro.  Yikes.  Guilford people: what's the dealio?

[Forma80]

Varner did do a good job of running the offense after Dawkins injury, but he's still a freshman, and Dawkins had much more familiarity with the offense after being in the system for 3 years. A big blow for the Generals, and you gotta feel bad for Dawkins after sitting behind Tweardy for 3 years.

As for the W and L AA candidates. The offense doesn't have the same down the field passing attack as it did in years past. The spread offense has the Generals spreading the ball around to different people, and running more option plays. Tweardy was more of a pocket passer, and where Jack Martin was getting 14 or so passes thrown toward him per game last year, he might be getting 4 or 5 currently. Also spreading the ball to 3 AA candidates is going to hurt everyone's numbers, especially when the General's haven't controlled the clock that much in their first 4 contests. Still, the mark of a good player is to make the play when you're number is called, and all of them seem to be doing that. I'd look for the numbers to improve as the offense continues to gel, and they become more of a cohesive unit.

Big game vs. Catholic this week. Taking off work on Friday and flying across the country to see some ODAC action in person. Can't wait.

[wrighthall220]

Does anyone know the extent of Varner's injury?  Was it just something to keep him out half of a game or will it keep him out another game?


Congrats to BC on a Homecoming win!  (same goes for GC!)    I guess we won't see any Tiger-ettes for another year! 

[hasanova]

- Josh Vogelbach's five INTs versus Greensboro.  Yikes.  Guilford people: what's the dealio?

First of all, I'm not a QB, but I have watched a lot of his games, so here are a couple of thoughts:

1) Three to five interceptions per game are way too many - no argument there - sometimes JV seems to force a pass into double coverage, but ....
2) think about how many times a game he passes & convert it to a percentage.  If you saw a QB's line & he was 8 of 15 with one interception, 80 yards & a TD, you wouldn't think anything about it.  I try to think of it as 3-5 passing games all rolled into one.
3) as many times as he passes per game, the defense is logically looking for a pass on almost every play.  Most of the defensive backs do not even bother looking for a run play.  They key on the receiver and making an interception almost every time.
4) one of those interceptions was in overtime, so there were "only" four in regulation.  lol

Absolutely no disagreement from me that he's throwing too many picks and I hope that's something he and the receivers and coaches are working on this week.  The Quakers were able to survive it against a team like Greensboro, but an even better team would  capitalize big time! 

[wrighthall220]

3) as many times as he passes per game, the defense is logically looking for a pass on almost every play.  Most of the defensive backs do not even bother looking for a run play.  They key on the receiver and making an interception almost every time.

Not to bring up the run yet again... well ok I'm going to poke GC for not running again!  IF D's are looking for the pass on every play why not mix it up a bit more?  A run on 3rd and 5 may work pretty well from time to time even without a decent amount of run blocking..

[religion_major]

3) as many times as he passes per game, the defense is logically looking for a pass on almost every play.  Most of the defensive backs do not even bother looking for a run play.  They key on the receiver and making an interception almost every time.

Not to bring up the run yet again... well ok I'm going to poke GC for not running again!  IF D's are looking for the pass on every play why not mix it up a bit more?  A run on 3rd and 5 may work pretty well from time to time even without a decent amount of run blocking..

The word draw comes to mind...

[hasanova]

3) as many times as he passes per game, the defense is logically looking for a pass on almost every play.  Most of the defensive backs do not even bother looking for a run play.  They key on the receiver and making an interception almost every time.

Not to bring up the run yet again... well ok I'm going to poke GC for not running again!  IF D's are looking for the pass on every play why not mix it up a bit more?  A run on 3rd and 5 may work pretty well from time to time even without a decent amount of run blocking..

The word draw comes to mind...

I don't have the exact numbers, but there have been some more yards on the ground the past two games.  Mostly draws from the FB position, although Micah Rushing did break a 70+ yard run versus HSC.  I think it was 177 vs HSC and I know it was 60 vs Greensboro.  Yeah, I know the 60 yards is pitiful, but it's better than what we've had a couple of games.  Speaking of the running game in the Greensboro contest, the Quakers handed off to a freshman RB at about our own 5 on our first play from scrimmage - he fumbled and we recovered in the endzone so the Pride got a safety.  About two series later, the Quakers handed off to the same RB at our twenty - fumble - and then Greensboro's Torrey Lowe scampered down the left side for a 20-yard TD on the very next play, which gave Greensboro a 9-8 lead.  It wasn't pretty, but we survived it.  Whew!  Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers - what can I say?   

[Forma80]

Does anyone know the extent of Varner's injury?  Was it just something to keep him out half of a game or will it keep him out another game?


Congrats to BC on a Homecoming win!  (same goes for GC!)    I guess we won't see any Tiger-ettes for another year! 

It was Dawkins, the Senior starting QB that got hurt, and he's out for the season with a broken collerbone. RJ Varner is a freshman that is now thrust into the starting position. For some film on him, scroll back to Two-A-Days on MTV, and watch him at QB for Spain Park when they play Hoover in an early season matchup.

[Outsider14]

- Josh Vogelbach's five INTs versus Greensboro.  Yikes.  Guilford people: what's the dealio?

First of all, I'm not a QB, but I have watched a lot of his games, so here are a couple of thoughts:

1) Three to five interceptions per game are way too many - no argument there - sometimes JV seems to force a pass into double coverage, but ....
2) think about how many times a game he passes & convert it to a percentage.  If you saw a QB's line & he was 8 of 15 with one interception, 80 yards & a TD, you wouldn't think anything about it.  I try to think of it as 3-5 passing games all rolled into one.
3) as many times as he passes per game, the defense is logically looking for a pass on almost every play.  Most of the defensive backs do not even bother looking for a run play.  They key on the receiver and making an interception almost every time.
4) one of those interceptions was in overtime, so there were "only" four in regulation.  lol

Absolutely no disagreement from me that he's throwing too many picks and I hope that's something he and the receivers and coaches are working on this week.  The Quakers were able to survive it against a team like Greensboro, but an even better team would  capitalize big time! 

spin it any way you want, 3-5 INTs, no matter how many passes he throws, are still 3-5 turnovers. you can't beat decent teams when you turn the ball over.

do i sound like a coach yet?

[hasanova]

I'm not spinning anything.  I already said we couldn't beat a good team with that many turnovers.   

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

hasa -

Let me preface what I'm about to say with this.  Vogelbach will undoubtedly break some NCAA records once his career is over, so his name will have to be tossed around as one of the best QBs to play Division III.

So here is why I'm about to compare his 2006 statistics to, in many people's opinions, 10 of the best QBs in the country.

Vogelbach has attempted 309 passes, nearly 50 more than the next highest amount by a QB.  He has thrown 14 interceptions ... that's a pick every 22 pass attempts.

Now here are the top 10 quarterbacks, IMO, in the country with their passing attempts to interception ratio...

Andy Collins, Occidental (27 to 1)
Mike Orihel, Rowan (72 to 1)
Justin Jacobs, UW-Whitewater (38 to 1)
Rocky Pentello, Capital (64 to 0)
Chris Warrick, Wesley (104 to 1)
Jordan Neal, Hardin-Simmons (81 to 1)
Kam Kniss, North Central (53 to 1)
Joel Clark, Whitworth (28 to 1)
Alex Kofoed, St. John's (44 to 1)
Mike Jorris, Mount Union (31 to 1)

So as you can see, except for a couple guys, Vogelbach is nowhere close to these guys.  That's why Vogelbach is currently ranked No. 69 in Division III in pass efficiency.

The above pass attempts to interception ratios is a big reason why their 10 teams have a combined 36-2 record, and Guilford is 3-2.

[hasanova]

- Josh Vogelbach's five INTs versus Greensboro.  Yikes.  Guilford people: what's the dealio?

Hasanova previously said, "First of all, I'm not a QB, but I have watched a lot of his games, so here are a couple of thoughts:

Three to five interceptions per game are way too many - no argument there - sometimes JV seems to force a pass into double coverage, ....
Absolutely no disagreement from me that he's throwing too many picks and I hope that's something he and the receivers and coaches are working on this week.  The Quakers were able to survive it against a team like Greensboro, but an even better team would  capitalize big time!"

I'm not spinning anything.  I already said we couldn't beat a good team with that many turnovers.

3) as many times as he passes per game, the defense is logically looking for a pass on almost every play.  Most of the defensive backs do not even bother looking for a run play.  They key on the receiver and making an interception almost every time.

Not to bring up the run yet again... well ok I'm going to poke GC for not running again!  IF D's are looking for the pass on every play why not mix it up a bit more?  A run on 3rd and 5 may work pretty well from time to time even without a decent amount of run blocking..

The word draw comes to mind...

It wasn't pretty, but we survived it.  Whew!  Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers - what can I say?

Thanks for the information, kid.  Interesting.  Even without seeing that, I keep saying Vogelbach and the team has weaknesses, so I don't understand why that seems to be ignored.  I'm certainly aware of why Vogelbach is not a top QB in terms of efficiency and why the Quakers are not a top team in terms of record or Quality of Wins.  For now, I simply don't think either Vogelbach or the team should be considered in those categories.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

hasa -

Sorry, I shouldn't have directed my last post to you.  That was a general statement about the numbers (good and bad) that Vogelbach is putting up.  Sort of putting them in perspective, if you will.

You've been very honest with us about the Quakers ... more so than a handful of BC fans are about the Eagles.  We love to wear our BC-colored glasses sometimes. 8)

I think the Oct. 14 battle at Guilford will be a great one.  It will all come down to stops on the defensive side and which team can force the other's offense off the field without getting 3s or 7s.

[muchacho]

Its interesting to think about watching MTV to get film on a D3 player. That sound like one of SI's Signs of the Apocalypse.