FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Snakehandler]

'nova,

I will give you an opportunity to clear up the ineligible player incodent.  What was the infraction? How many games did he play in? What has the coaching staff done to remedy the situation?  If I were Guilford I would not forfeit the game(s) until the NCAA or ODAC made us. But, if you guys are as honorable as you say you are, at least you can come clean and stop denying the situation.

[Jacketlawyer]

No, I didn't know how to make it more readable, so I went back and double spaced it.  Now it's more readable, but it takes up more room.  As I now still haven't started the 14 pans of brownies for my football team, I'll be up all night baking, but I still feel that I had to say what I did.  And most of the post, I feel, is positive in nature.

Nothing wrong with that post at all.  I was able to read it just fine, and enjoyed it. 8)

Now back to football!  I know some DIII fans here in the 'burg, and if we can coordinate it, I'd like to go to Alonzo Stagg this year.  Should be fun.

[Bmore BC]

'nova,

I will give you an opportunity to clear up the ineligible player incodent.  What was the infraction? How many games did he play in? What has the coaching staff done to remedy the situation?  If I were Guilford I would not forfeit the game(s) until the NCAA or ODAC made us. But, if you guys are as honorable as you say you are, at least you can come clean and stop denying the situation.

I am not a regular poster as I usually post to try an mix things up a little on the message board, but am confused about this whole ineligible player thing and how its "not a story because no action was taken" deal. From what I am getting the team did not have any consequences because of how the player was ineligible or something like that. Does it matter what caused the ineligibility? He is either eligible or not correct??? I also don't understand how its not a story because there was no action taken. I thought stories were bigger when no action was taken, but maybe that just me.

[plabrss]

How can we win when you are not there in sandals and shorts, Plabrass?  What's wrong with this picture

not to change the subject from the GC thing, but I wanted to reply to you Olinemom.  It's been an off year for me too.....I'll be back strong and ready to sport the right gear for BC games!!!!!!!  and maybe get a brownie or two!!!

[hasanova]

'nova,

I will give you an opportunity to clear up the ineligible player incodent.  What was the infraction? How many games did he play in? What has the coaching staff done to remedy the situation?  If I were Guilford I would not forfeit the game(s) until the NCAA or ODAC made us. But, if you guys are as honorable as you say you are, at least you can come clean and stop denying the situation.

Snakehandler, I have never personally denied anything.  All I said earlier was I don't know what happened and we should let the proper authorities handle this.  I have not spoken to anyone at the school about this and I am an alumnus, not someone who knows the day to day activities of the team.   With that said, here's what I now know with some certainty:

1)  A player (yes, I know who it was) was dismissed from the team as soon as the infraction was discovered.  He was on the team roster the first six games, but not against W&L and RMC.  His number has been reassigned to another player, a freshman.
2) He played in 4 of the first 6 games, with 2 starts - against Greensboro and BC.  He had a tackle or at least assisted on a tackle in 3 of the 4 games.
3) Guilford reported all known information to the ODAC league office immediately when it was discovered.  

Here's what I've heard through the grapevine:

1) It's alleged that he misrepresented himself to Guilford as a freshman who had never attended college.  Guilford was under the sincere impression he had all his academic and athletic eligibility intact.  I assume players sign something that states their past college history and eligibility, if any.
2) It's alleged that he attended preseason camp last season at another ODAC school and failed to make qualifying grades at that institution.
3) During an exchange of game tapes, the institution at which he had participated in preseason camp last year saw him playing and reported it to Guilford.  Guilford acted immediately upon notification.

If these are the facts, and I think they are, I'm not sure what else Guilford could do.  From a technical standpoint, I understand why someone might argue that Guilford should forfeit the three wins in which this player participated.  From a practical standpoint, however, Guilford has an unblemished reputation with the NCAA and the ODAC, Guilford did not knowingly break the rules, the player in question allegedly lied to the college and it is questionable in some cases as to whether his participation altered the outcome of the games.   If the ODAC says we have to forfeit or the college decides to do it on their own, so be it, but that seems to be an awfully harsh penalty if these are the true circumstances.

Snakehandler, I know you want BC to be ODAC champion.  I sincerely understand that, but I was at the GC/BC game and the Eagles were bested in almost every aspect of that game.  It wasn't BC's day.  Now, maybe this player's tackles changed the outcome.  I don't know.  Someone else would have been in his place, however, and he might have done even better.  It's a tough one to call.   Peace

[hasanova]

No, I didn't know how to make it more readable, so I went back and double spaced it.  Now it's more readable, but it takes up more room.  As I now still haven't started the 14 pans of brownies for my football team, I'll be up all night baking, but I still feel that I had to say what I did.  And most of the post, I feel, is positive in nature.

Nothing wrong with that post at all.  I was able to read it just fine, and enjoyed it. 8)

Now back to football!  I know some DIII fans here in the 'burg, and if we can coordinate it, I'd like to go to Alonzo Stagg this year.  Should be fun.

I'm in!  Jacketlawyer, I got a chance to enjoy the Stone Station food on October 14 and let me tell you, it's good!

[algernon]

BC showed yesterday they are still the King of the ODAC, just maybe not the playoff representative this year.

Although BC played a great game on Saturday, one game does not a season make.

If the Generals or the Wasps ends the season with a 5-1 record, they will have shown that they are "King of the ODAC" and the best team to represent the ODAC in the NCAA playoffs.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

hasa,

Well put.  As far as I know, your "grapevine" material is also accurate.

The information you presented is why I see why the ODAC did not do anything.

The ODAC manual states;

ARTICLE X - STUDENT ELIGIBILITY
Section 1: General. Eligibility requirements for student participation in Conference competition will be based upon the requirements of the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA), Division III, and such other requirements as may be determined by the Directors of the Old Dominion Athletic Conference. A formal written declaration of each member College's institutional or eligibility requirements shall be reviewed by the Executive Committee and filed with the Commissioner, who shall have the right to rule on eligibility matters. Such eligibility rulings, if appealed, may be reviewed by the Executive Committee. The Board of Directors will review all eligibility rulings at appropriate meetings of the Conference.

As Llamaguy pointed out, the NCAA seems to be pretty clear on the subject;

According to the NCAA, the penalties involved in the use of an ineligible student-athlete include declaring the student-athlete in question ineligible for further competition and forfeiting any contests in which the student-athlete participated.

Doesn't seem to matter why a player is ineligible.

But there is a big difference between the Shenandoah case last year and Guilford.  I feel the SU athletic department forfeited the game against Catholic because they realized the system they had in place to check eligibility was faulty in the timing of it.  In Guilford's case, it seems like there is no system that can be in place to check whether a player is lying about his academic past.  Guilford can't be expected to call up every college and university in the country to see if he did (or didn't) in fact go there.

But again, in the NCAA verbage, it doesn't seem to matter why a player is ineligible - be it the school's wrong doing or not.  That's what makes this "a story."

But all this is for not, see that the ODAC and NCAA aren't doing anything about it and I don't expect Guilford to, seeing they felt they we're wronged by this kid.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Although BC played a great game on Saturday, one game does not a season make.

If the Generals or the Wasps ends the season with a 5-1 record, they will have shown that they are "King of the ODAC" and the best team to represent the ODAC in the NCAA playoffs.

If BC is to finish the ODAC with a 4-2 record, you better believe our coaches, our players and us fans will be thinking that our win over W&L made our season.

I see what you're saying though.  But do understand that us BC fans that see our Eagles every week saw us play totally different on Oct. 28 than we did on Oct. 21 or Oct. 14.  No question, though, Guilford and Emory & Henry took care of business against us and deserve the victories.

Even so, you can't say that the Eagles winning in impressive fashion against the Generals doesn't make the rest of the ODAC go *gulp* for next season.

[Snakehandler]

Thank you 'nova,

I can put this to bed.  Except......

Hey Matt, wouldn't this player have to go through the NCAA Clearing House?

[WLU78]

DIII players do not have to go through the clearing house.

Wow, from the world's largest airplane, to the world's largest outdoor cocktail party, to the ODAC's largest @#s whooping!!

I told all of you that the fury of the 1rst half would tell the tale.

Congrats to BC. 

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

DIII players do not have to go through the clearing house.

Wow, from the world's largest airplane, to the world's largest outdoor cocktail party, to the ODAC's largest @#s whooping!!

I told all of you that the fury of the 1rst half would tell the tale.

Congrats to BC. 

Thanks, WLU78.  But us fans aren't on here gloating about it (well, most of us aren't), seeing that you all are still in control of your own destiny. 

Congrats to YOU ALL for taking care of business against the rest of the ODAC.  We're actually jealous of your position.  Sure, our win was a nice victory for our pride and heading into 2007, but for now, it's all about today and this season - and it looks like Emory & Henry or you all are poised to represent the ODAC beyond Nov. 11.  We'll be cheering you on!! 

[muchacho]

Coming from Catholic's perspective, it certainly didn't make anybody at Catholic feel good to know that Shenandoah forfeited. I believe everybody still views that as a loss, knowing that we got beat on the field. I really wouldn't want to be awarded a win if my team was beat, unless there was blatant cheating by the opposing team. I don't think you should hold a coaching staff and a whole team of student athletes accountable for one person's mistake. If there is negligence on the program's part, then that is a different story.

[Llamaguy]

BC showed yesterday they are still the King of the ODAC, just maybe not the playoff representative this year.

Although BC played a great game on Saturday, one game does not a season make.

If the Generals or the Wasps ends the season with a 5-1 record, they will have shown that they are "King of the ODAC" and the best team to represent the ODAC in the NCAA playoffs.

And if they don't we will have a 4 or 5 way-tie for the ODAC Championship.  Don't hold your breath because W&L is "beat-up" and E&H has the worst pass defense in the conference. Who does E&H  play in Week 11? There is still plenty of football to be played.

Believe me BC is still the KING, ask W&L how they felt (literally) on Sunday.

[hasanova]

Matt and Snakehandler,

You're welcome.  I fully understand how this might appear to the fans of other schools, especially the three who lost the games in which this player participated.   It upsets me greatly that the alleged actions of one 19 year old could affect so many others in the Guilford, ODAC and USASAC communities.  I firmly stand by all my earlier assertions that Guilford is an honorable institution that ALWAYS tries to "do the right thing" and anything that causes even the hint of impropriety affects the entire college community - and that includes me - personally.  Honor and fair play still matter!  Knowing Guilford, I also think they may have a desire to protect this young man and his family from further embarrassment  - and that may be part of the reason there has been little - or no - disclosure.

As to your question about the NCAA Clearinghouse, I wondered about the same thing?  Does this apply to DIII also?  What national methods are in place to prevent a player from misrepresenting his or her academic and athletic past?  Also, this player is from a south central Virginia HS less than 2 hours from campus.  Television station and printed news coverage from Greensboro extend well into this general area.  Honestly, how did he expect to go unnoticed in Greensboro and in the same conference as his preseason experience from a season ago?  Peace