FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

1) Maryville was spelled right the second time.
2) Well Hampdon Cindy. (I torched that one, I will torch it again for good measure)
3) You know when you spell it incorrectly on mapquest it still gives you the choices without saying "Did you mean Shenandoah" Mapquest still gave me it even though I spelled it wrong.

1)Spell Maryville correctly once more and we can find solace by citing Meat Loaf in 1984's Bat Out of Hell album with "two out of three ain't bad." 
2) Yes, you did torch it.  I saw Hampden-Sydney on the baseball schedule for a CIAA school a few years ago and I think they had "Hampton Sidney".  Well, there are MEAC member Hampton University and actor Sidney Poitier, but the old saying says close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.    Do a google search on John Hampden and Algernon Sydney and you'll see why H-S chose its name.
3) You are in the USASouth and ODAC websites and these DIII forums all the time.  Why are you still doing a Mapquest search for Shenandoah?  It seems to me that once you see something in print this often, all the school names would soon be committed to memory.

Interesting combination of schools for potential conferences, Pride, but I just don't think it'll ever happen - too many historical affiliations, political ramifications and scholastic differences. 
   

The conferences were created out of fun and I understand the "too many historical affiliations, political ramifications and scholastic differences."

I used maquest to determine mileage. You would think that I would be able to remeber how to spell Shenandoah, but when i talk about SU I only type SU.  You would also think it would be easier for me to remeber how to spell Shenandoah considering I am young and I memorized the US Presidents in order when I was in 2nd grade.

[hasanova]

Trust me, Pride, math skill and writing acumen are not mutually exclusive!  Both can be done well. 

[Pat Coleman]

My point was you said 49-13. Guess you didn't read my post. I was working from memory. You had the site in front of you and still got it wrong. That was my point.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

My point was you said 49-13. Guess you didn't read my post. I was working from memory. You had the site in front of you and still got it wrong. That was my point.

That clearly was a keyboard error on my part.  I had to research it because it wasn't in my memory.

You had the site in front of you and still got it wrong.

A statement like that is what you told me to avoid on here, because it often rubs people the wrong way. However it will take more than that to rub me the wrong way.

My memory is fine.  I am sure you remeber telling me that some of my statements rub people the wrong way.

[willierobin]

Looking at the CUA website, it looks like CU and Gallaudet played 10 times from 1977-1994. CU won all ten (five shutouts) by a combined score of 327 to 80. Not much hope for a rivalry (although similar to HSC-Macon the last half-dozen years). 

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

I understand that Gallaudet has never beaten Catholic, but I think there won't be as many shutouts. (I can't back that up with any evidence, but I just think it won't happen as often.)  Galludet may win 3 or 4 the next 40 years, they could win more than that too. I have already mentioned that Gallaudet has a powerhouse deaf high school in thier backyard. (Yes they have other schools to recruit from but Maryland School of the Deaf has won 5 National Championships in the last 7 years.) I want to see what they can do, I believe the program could be much improved compared to the last time they fielded a team.  I want them to do well because it will be good for d3football and all d3sports. (I really want all of thier sports to do well)

[Pat Coleman]

Gallaudet has had access to these players throughout and it hasn't made them a great club team. They lost to Becker, beat SUNY-Maritime. When we place them in the Kickoff ranking it will probably be on the order of second to last, ahead of Maritime.

Pride, you really really missed my point, which was if you're going to call out someone's error, make sure you have your own facts right. That's all.

[WLU78]

Thought this was interesting:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/598344.html

From the News Observer:

Recruits only part of picture

TIM STEVENS-- Staff Writer

One of the unusual things about college athletics scholarships is that many times acceptance comes down to whether the family can afford to take the scholarship.
The notion seems strange because a scholarship is free money, right?

But athletics scholarships usually aren't full scholarships.

So the lists we are including in today's section (pages 9-12C) of some area high school students who are accepting athletics scholarships is deceptive.

A few of the athletes, football and basketball players primarily, are receiving full athletics scholarships. Many are receiving some athletics financial aid. But many -- perhaps most -- are getting very little athletics financial aid.

Colleges rarely give full athletics scholarships to anyone other than football and basketball players.

The NCAA regulates the number of athletics scholarships its member schools can give. So often, a single scholarship is divided among several athletes.

That division forces many families to make a decision.

An athlete's family might need an additional $20,000 a year to cover expenses if their college-bound student accepts a half-scholarship to a school that costs $40,000 a year.

They either must find other funding or the student can give up on the dream of participating in athletics at that school and attend a less expensive one.

But high school athletics never were envisioned as a way to get college scholarships.

High school athletics exist in the United States -- and almost no where else in the world -- to help develop citizens for our democracy.

High school athletics are meant to teach lessons about sportsmanship, teamwork, loyalty and sacrifice.

But mostly, high school athletics are supposed to be fun.

High school athletes generally play for enjoyment, which is good because 99 out of 100 high school athletes never receive an athletics scholarship to college.

According to a recent U.S. News and World report, there are about 7 million high school athletes, but there are only 151,000 athletes in Division I of the NCAA and 75,000 in Division II.
And get this. Less than half of those NCAA athletes receive any athletics financial aid, according to the same article.

Take football and basketball out of the equation, and the odds get out of hand pretty quickly.

High school athletics and athletics scholarships have changed a lot in the past 30 years.

Colleges rarely recruit from high school teams anymore except in football.

Some colleges recruit athletes without ever talking to anyone at the high school.

Much of the recruitment takes place during college teams' offseason, primarily the summer.

Not everyone who wins an athletics scholarship is a great student, but for the vast majority of high school students, the best way to get financial aid for college is to be a good person and to study hard.

High school athletes have a lot of fun, learn some life-long skills and test their boundaries, but an athletics scholarship usually isn't in the picture.


High schools editor Tim Stevens can be reached at (919) 829-8910 or tim.stevens@newsobserver.com.

Here is the link to the U.S. News and World Report article he mentions:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/articles/030908/8athlete.htm

[Ryan Tipps]

3) You know when you spell it incorrectly on mapquest it still gives you the choices without saying "Did you mean Shenandoah"
Mapquest still gave me it even though I spelled it wrong.

I used maquest to determine mileage. You would think that I would be able to remeber how to spell Shenandoah, but when i talk about SU I only type SU.  You would also think it would be easier for me to remeber how to spell Shenandoah considering I am young and I memorized the US Presidents in order when I was in 2nd grade.

Erm, just for fun, I'll mention that Shenandoah University isn't actually in Shenandoah, Va., which sounds like what you pulled up on MapQuest.

The school is in Winchester -- which is about an hour and 21 minutes farther northeast.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

3) You know when you spell it incorrectly on mapquest it still gives you the choices without saying "Did you mean Shenandoah"
Mapquest still gave me it even though I spelled it wrong.

I used maquest to determine mileage. You would think that I would be able to remeber how to spell Shenandoah, but when i talk about SU I only type SU.  You would also think it would be easier for me to remeber how to spell Shenandoah considering I am young and I memorized the US Presidents in order when I was in 2nd grade.

Erm, just for fun, I'll mention that Shenandoah University isn't actually in Shenandoah, Va., which sounds like what you pulled up on MapQuest.

The school is in Winchester -- which is about an hour and 21 minutes farther northeast.

No I know where it is.  I went to a game two years ago up there.  The football field, I will add is a good field.

[K-Mack]

Admittedly it has been quiet on the boards lately, so here we go..........

Well, I saw this article on www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com and it reminded me of my rant about admissions standards and its effect on the football recruiting pool.  To back up my thesis, I bring you Jim Harbaugh:

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/06/05/can-jim-harbaugh-win-against-stanford-admissions/

Now, I know most of you think W&L grads are, how was it phrased on this board at one time? "Windbags and Lawyers" and the comment to the effect that that is redundant.  One has only to review this year's ratings by U.S. News and World Reports College Rankings http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1libartco_brief.php
and difficulty of W&L's admissions standards to appreciate what the football staff at W&L accomplished this past season.

And in my perverse little world, that makes the General's 2006 Football Championship even greater! 

In that world, how does it affect the Wilkes game?

[K-Mack]

"Windbags and Lawyers"

Actually, I was glad to see W&L win it last year, especially after all of the tough seasons they had in the '90s.  ODAC football has been ascendent on the other side of the mountains for the past six years, and it's been interesting to watch.

What hasn't been interesting (or at least "interesting" in a good way), has been the descendent movement of the program in Ashland.  I've watched this development in relative silence for the past five years, saying very little in the way of criticism.  I don't know if I'll be able to continue it this year if we mount another dismal campaign.

Please note my expectations aren't unrealistic.  I'd like to think we could go at least 5-5 (I can't believe I just said that).  But I'll take 1-9 as long as that 1 comes against those TIGERS.

I second this motion, except with the caveat that the more good football I get to see around the country, the less concerned I am about the Jackets' lameness. I'd still rather see them win the Stagg Bowl than anyone else, but once the coaches who coached you are gone, the AD, the president, etc., have turned over, all that's left is an attachment to the alumni you knew and a campus that means something to you.

As far as the football program, I really want to get behind it and support it more, beyond wishing them the best, but that runs contrary to the whole role I'm supposed to play for D3football.com ... I also sometimes have this resentment like "We didn't suck" or "We'd kick their ass" when I look at the current team(s), even though I wish them the best.

That's bad, huh?

I'm sure I'm a disloyal, untrue fan for that. I know Pedro Arruza is a good guy (based on Wheaton coach Mike Swider's recommendation) and I'd like to meet him some day. I always think they could be on the verge. It's in a great location, as far as building a nice mid-Atlantic recruting base (right on I-95), and it's a fun school to be at ... but I also think it's trying to transition to a more academically-focused school after years of not quite being sure what it wanted to be. It's always been a good school academically, but on my observation, the student body and campus culture seems to have undergone some transformation over the years.

Basically though, that's kind of my rambling. The more key issues, I think, as I've shared with Jacket Lawyer, are the escalating costs of tuition vs. the tuition at the other successful schools in the area.

Seriously, if you're getting recruited by ... (making up rough numbers and details here)
Bridgewater: Stagg Bowl and 6 championships since 2000
CNU: $8-12,000 tuition
Shenandoah: Playoff appearance three years ago
Averett: Playoff contender last year, chance to play Mount Union
HSC: Bunch of 8-win seasons, but only girls from Longwood & Sweet Briar, $30,000
RMC: Almost $30,000/year, last ODAC title in 1997
E&H: Cow country, but at least an ODAC contender last year

What would you pick?

Also, I think RMC coaches have recently not received "extra" help from the admissions and financial aid offices, which is keeping with a fair academic policy, but is not conducive to getting the best players into your school. Help finding loans and grants, and getting kids with academic promise but maybe not quite the SAT number your school usually requires, are big helps to building a program, especially if you believe in the D3 "recruit numbers" method (see recruiting thread on general football)

But again, everything I just said is talking out of my backside ... I don't want to confuse it with what I write when I actually do my research.

[K-Mack]

Any fan may find this interesting (not just BCers), but as I was reading my latest Sports Illustrated (w/ LeBron on the front), I was reminded of something Coach Clark told me.

If you have the latest SI, turn to the "Players" section (the interview with O.J. Mayo).  Does the person who interviewed him ring a bell?  Joe Lemire (it's in red after the Q&A with Mayo).

The neat thing is that Mr. Lemire was the Bridgewater football beat writer for the Daily News-Record in 2003.  It doesn't end there, though.  In 2004, Mike Rothstein was BC's beat writer for the DN-R.  He's now the Notre Dame football beat writer for the The Journal Gazette (in Fort Wayne, IN).  I was also told that BC's beat writer in 2005 and 2006 is now following the Atlanta Braves for a paper in Georgia.

Looks like our football program has some good karma!  Matthew Stoss, Bridgewater's current beat writer, better have his resume ready and bags packed.  He'll be on to bigger and better things very shortly!

Hey, kid, at least you have a beat writer!  Many newspaper don't even bother to have someone cover the local DIII teams.  Most schools are lucky if the lcoal paper prints what the SID issues or a freelance writer submits.  With that being said, however, congratulations to all the writers you cited!

Yeah,
Those guys put the work in and did a nice job with BC coverage. I don't know about the Harrisonburg paper as a whole, but I know they push above and beyond what most papers of that size do for D3.

As far as the beat writer thing, that's mostly true ... I would really like to compile a list of papers who cover D3 and to what degree (beat writer, home games only, notebook packages, or just a brief here and there)

Maybe that's a thread we need to start

[K-Mack]

    Hey Jacket, hate to tell you this but I think your Jackets better get that one W somewhere else cuz I don't see them beating H-S any time soon.  8) Maybe if you threaten to stop giving all the $ you donate, they will tighten up in Ashland. 

Hope springs eternal, my good friend.  Hafta believe!!

It goes in cycles.

Although there were a couple good games (45-42, 26-17 and 7-0) over the past few years, there really hasn't been a season when H-SC and R-MC have been good in the same year since 1993.

I think the game would be more relevant if it were to have an ODAC title riding on it like many of them did in earlier years.

[K-Mack]

I am going to post this on the ODAC board as well as USASouth.  I decided to reorganize the ODAC and the USASouth (Football Only) here is what I came up with.

NEW USASouth

Averett
Emory and Henry
Ferrum
Greensboro
Guilford
Maryvile
Methodist
North Carolina Wesleyan

New ODAC
Bridgewater (VA)
Catholic
Christopher Newport
Gallaudet
Hampden Syndey
Shenadoah
Washington and Lee
Randolph Macon

This is just something fun.  Just having Guilford in the same conference makes the "rivalary" that much more important.

This gives USASouth a chance to win the conference without CNU at the top. Also gives CNU a chance not to win the conference.

This cuts the travel time for Maryville as well. Actually a bunch of schools as well.

Gives USASouth 4 NC teams and 4 VA.

Gives ODAC all VA Teams.

A rivalary could start between Catholic and Gallaudet.

What would the conference outlook be if this were truly the conferences?

I used to get e-mailed this realignment question a lot.

I think the two conferences are first, aligned out of tradition and academic similarity, as opposed to geography ... and second, you really couldn't do these because the ODAC especially has a lot of non-football schools.

But if you want me to play along ... trading E&H and Guilford for CNU, Shen and Gallaudet ... well, that could be a competitive wash, but having CNU and Bridgewater in the same conference could mess up someone's AQ.

I know we could debate that much further, that's just a thought to start you off.