FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Ralph Turner]

WLU78, thanks for the Sewanee article. +1! 

Here is more on D-IV on the Future of D-III board.

[Jacketlawyer]

Seriously though...check this out.  At least through 2009, we will be hosting the Stagg Bowl in Salem.  Hats off to the City of Salem as this is a big draw for them as well as some good press for the ODAC.  Stone Station will be in attendance come Dec. 15th this year and the next two years to follow.  To early to determine a menu but you can bet Stone Station God Fathers are discussing.  I can't wait!  It's going to be a great time! 

Don't know how Salem does it, but that's really good news.  The better news (of course) is that the Stone Station crew will be in full operation in the fall.   Enjoyed the Stagg Bowl with you guys, and hope to do so again this year.

[Pat Coleman]

AAargh, quit sending people to SI!

[WLU78]

Pat, did you check out the SI top ten football uniforms?  There are two from the division formerly known as D1-AA now known as FCS. 

I won't post the link, but Ga Southern and Wofford are in the top ten as well as the usual suspects (UGA, ND, Texas, OSU, etc.)

[skoaltrain]

AAargh, quit sending people to SI!

Sorry Pat the Pirate!  I'll know better next time.  Another item of note off the Home Page of D3Football.com is the tenative kickoff is set for 4:00 p.m.  I see another overnighter in Salem!

[Pat Coleman]

Sorry -- just saw SI links in like four places when I hit the site at 10 a.m. today and it was driving me nuts.

[allsky7]

    Hey Jacket, hate to tell you this but I think your Jackets better get that one W somewhere else cuz I don't see them beating H-S any time soon.  8) Maybe if you threaten to stop giving all the $ you donate, they will tighten up in Ashland. 

Hope springs eternal, my good friend.  Hafta believe!!

It goes in cycles.

Although there were a couple good games (45-42, 26-17 and 7-0) over the past few years, there really hasn't been a season when H-SC and R-MC have been good in the same year since 1993.

I think the game would be more relevant if it were to have an ODAC title riding on it like many of them did in earlier years.

Good to see ya back, K-Mack.   You bring up some good points in your posts.  I'm sure they'll get the ball rolling here!

I'm concerned the Randolph-Macon situation is more of a slump than a cycle. The R-M student turnout at last year's game at H-S was pretty bad; nobody seemed to be stoked about the game (except the alumni).  And who can blame them, really?  When was the last winning season we had (I'm afraid to find out)?

I'm all for improving academically.  While not as much fun as improving athletically, I think anyone would agree it's more important.  My point is I think R-M can do both without expense from either category

     I echo that sentiment K-Mack. Good to have you back. I figured some of the Macon jabs I posted to Jacket in recent months would get you going. 
     I'm afraid I agree with Jacket on this. I have been around the H-SC / R-MC rivalry for over 35 years. There have been some cycles over the years where one team had more success. You could still count on it being extemely spirited no matter what. And in many of those years, the games were still very competative. It seems to have lost a little of that fire in recent years. As much as it pains me to say, perhaps it will take a Jacket win to get things back on track.   

[allsky7]

And you didn't mention the reason recruits come to W&L. The tuition there is in the ballpark of the other schools.

I am curious about that oversight.

I always leave W&L out of that discussion because I think they're recruiting from a different pool, i.e. higher academic requirements and you all cast a wider geographic net than just the mid-Atlantic.

Same way I left Catholic out because they do most of their recruiting, it seems, from Catholic schools in the Northeast, from Mass. to N.J. to Pa. to Balt. and D.C. (you know, where the Catholics are) ... Guilford seems not to spend much time recruiting Va., which makes sense, because there are many more D3s here than in N.C.

But from my experience covering high schools in Northern Virginia for 5 years from 2000-05, Bridgewater, Christopher Newport, Shenandoah, Hampden-Sydney and Randolph-Macon, and Averett, are pursuing a lot of the same kids. I don't think E&H comes up here, but they're in the mix for Richmond kids.
Assuming that's true, I'm not liking where we stand against a lot of those schools right now, as far as tuition and recent football tradition are concerned. I realize there are many, many other factors that go into it though.

And as far as the part you bolded, that was not a specific dig at Bridgewater, I believe it happens lots of places. I believe most coaches are in favor of having some cooperation in admissions, financial aid or both, and it means as much or more as having "admininstrative support." (you might even interpret it as the same thing) ... I'm not even so sure it runs contrary to the overall goal of having a vibrant college community. Bending your academic standards, for instance, may seem uncouth, but in the long run, a kid who commits himself to the football program for 4 years is probably going to be a positive influence in other areas of campus life.

As far as not having that support ... I'm sure these coaches hate nothing more than when they have a kid interested but they can't get him in, and he ends up kicking their butts for 4 years on a conference rival.

     I know Wacker recruited pretty heavily in Richmond. He is a U of R grad. Not sure how much time E&H spends there in the Montgomery era.

[allsky7]

Yeah, I think it can be done too, but it takes a serious effort. Who is to say they're not trying right now?

All I'm saying is there have been big changes in the football landscape in Va. in the past 10 years. When I played, R-MC had a lot of success getting kids out of N.J., Pa. and Md. and blended that with really strong recruiting in Va., but all they had to beat back then was E&H and H-SC (basically), and some years, beating H-SC must not have been all that hard.

As an aside, I know E&H always recruited southwest va. and west va. and tenn., but it seems they've stretched into Southern Ohio, which actually makes sense given where their coach is from and where the school is located.

JL, maybe people like you and I need to start donating the big bucks and using our clout (sarcasm font again) to get things done.

K-Mack, just a couple of thoughts, well maybe not thoughts, actually, gripes!

You're right on your assertion on who's to say they're not trying.  I get the sense they are from watching improvements/hiring moves in other sports there over the past two years or so.  Not in football, though.  However, if I had to guess, righting a football program is an exceptionally tough task.

As you and I have discussed via PM, the football recruiting landscape has changed in Virginia.  I won't repeat what you have already written so well, but I would only add this is an explanation, not an excuse.  People often misunderstand or exchange the two terms.  Don't do it!

E&H will be back my friends.  And soon.

K-Mack, I've pledged my gift this year to R-M.  I always try to give them money. However, I don't think it's likely to get me anything other than a thank you note, and a tax write-off.  I seriously doubt anyone up there cares what I post on this board, let alone reads it.  Nor should they!!

     I just made my yearly contribution to the Maryville Fighting Scots football program. Rumor has it they are going to name the stadium after me.......well actually, just one of the urinals in the bathroom. 

[WLU78]

     I just made my yearly contribution to the Maryville Fighting Scots football program. Rumor has it they are going to name the stadium after me.......well actually, just one of the urinals in the bathroom. 

[hasanova]

I just made my yearly contribution to the Maryville Fighting Scots football program. Rumor has it they are going to name the stadium after me.......well actually, just one of the urinals in the bathroom. 

allsky7 - I'm sure everyone is flush with excitement and pride!   

[allsky7]

I just made my yearly contribution to the Maryville Fighting Scots football program. Rumor has it they are going to name the stadium after me.......well actually, just one of the urinals in the bathroom. 

allsky7 - I'm sure everyone is flush with excitement and pride!   

     hasa....I knew you wouldn't waste time in providing comic relief

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

I just made my yearly contribution to the Maryville Fighting Scots football program. Rumor has it they are going to name the stadium after me.......well actually, just one of the urinals in the bathroom. 

allsky7 - I'm sure everyone is flush with excitement and pride!   

     hasa....I knew you wouldn't waste time in providing comic relief

I had to wipe the tears of enjoyment and shake my head at your disposal of clever puns.

(I found a website with some funny quotes, I am going to use that site for my signature for the next couple of days.)

[TheEHC52]

As a recent grad, I find the news of a potential D-IV a reason to stop and look at the current state of D-III.  I picked E&H over W&L, Sewanee, and Grinnell.  Ultimately, for me at least, it came down to money.  I loved W&L on my visit (and to quote one of my baseball-playing classmates at graduation, "I'd rather have suffered through four years without a victory than to win just one game for W&L.") but when the financial aid letters came back and Emory gave a full ride compared to nothing at W&L, it seemed that the choice was made for me in absentia. 

That being said, the beauty of D-III is the chance to be a student-athlete instead of the other way around.  I do believe that D-III is starting to get far, far away from that principle- "Leadership Scholarships" at Bridgewater, anyone?  I do believe that further splitting the divisions or creating two levels of D-III will do great harm to many academic D-III schools.  To an 18 year old kid coming out of high school, money and the bragging rights of playing at a "higher level" sometimes take precedence over a great education.  While the current system may not be the best, I don't know exactly how we could change it for the better.  I believe a split would do more damage than good to the academic schools as far as getting athletes into programs.  Perhaps our best bet is to go ahead and install a D-III clearinghouse that places a premium on academic integrity.  Not only would athletes have to earn the right to play at practice and in the weightroom, but they would have to earn the right in the classroom first and foremost.  Hopefully Myles Brand will realize that sometimes grades are more important for the long-run than money is for the short-run.

[Jacketlawyer]

While the current system may not be the best, I don't know exactly how we could change it for the better.  I believe a split would do more damage than good to the academic schools as far as getting athletes into programs.  Perhaps our best bet is to go ahead and install a D-III clearinghouse that places a premium on academic integrity. 

Good post.  I think it aptly sums the consensus.  Or at least it does for me.

And since I have absolutely no problem revealing my ignorance of such things, how exactly would a DIII Clearinghouse work?