FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[K-Mack]

     I'm still curious about the Howard Cosell thing too because I can't find anyone will a recollection of that. I do vaguely remember MG being on campus. I also remember John Denver, Atlanta Rhythmn Section, & Bruce Springsteen being there as well in the early to mid 70's.

Also swear my Muhammad Ali mention was before I read this; not trying to top you guys, I mean it.

(we already know we're better)

[allsky7]

     I'm still curious about the Howard Cosell thing too because I can't find anyone will a recollection of that. I do vaguely remember MG being on campus. I also remember John Denver, Atlanta Rhythmn Section, & Bruce Springsteen being there as well in the early to mid 70's.

Also swear my Muhammad Ali mention was before I read this; not trying to top you guys, I mean it.

(we already know we're better)

     K-Mack.....as much as I love music, I'll give you this one.  I was a Joe Frazier fan but MA stopping by is pretty kool.  8)

[allsky7]

Look I just have to call BS on that.  I left Matt's thesis alone because the arguement {sic} was so weak I thought it would be rhetorical to refute it.  But KMack your statement boarders {sic} on idiocy and may be the reason why newspaper readership is in a nosedive, and ad revenues along with it.  There is a reason Jason {sic} Blairs and others are discredited, a lack of professional discipline and integrity.  At the better schools you learn that kind of stuff.

WLU78:

You obviously have no idea about journalism. Why don't you stick to something you know?

The best writer I ever worked with went to Albright. The second-best went to Oswego. The worst went to Syracuse.

Jayson Blair -- note the spelling -- went to a well-respected major university. Stephen Glass, another noted fabricator, went to Penn.

Newspaper readership is dropping because corporate ownership is more interested in squeezing profit margins from 15% up to 30% than producing a robust product, because the newspaper is not a timely enough medium for an increasing number of people. Newspaper Web site readership is on the rise. Who produces those sites? Journalists.

For the record, I hadn't read this reply when I started listing off fields of everyone I could see from my desk.

The state of journalism has little do to with our point anyway. The point is, WLU78 thinks there is inherent value in the name recognition on his diploma and others like his. He also seems to believe there is a better education being offered at more exclusive institutions.

None of us are really arguing that point. But the truth is, there are people at top-notch schools wasting their opportunity, and there are people at other schools who are taking full advantage of theirs. School choice alone does not guarantee or forbid success.

If we can't all agree on that, I'm not really sure what hope there is for this line of discussion.

Allskyyyyyy ... jacketlawyer ... How 'bout that Game, eh?

Have you ever heard some story about a R-MC guy scoring a TD, maybe in the 70s, and doing a backflip?

My late mentor (I guess you'd say) called that his favorite memory from the series.

His favorite R-MC, memory, though, was chaperoning/chauffering Muhammad Ali when he was out of boxing and going around to colleges speaking, and stopped at R-MC.

Not football related, but a great, great story.

     I do have a vague recollection of that but I have no idea when it was. 

[K-Mack]

Whoa ... we scheduled Carnegie Mellon? Good lord.

After back-to-back weeks with Washington & Lee and the Tartans, our team should be demoralized by their relative lack of brainpower and football skill. When they lose, they won't even be able to sing "It's allright, it's OK, you'll all pump our gas someday!"

I'm advising APD to assemble a suicide watch task force for the weeks of Sept. 29 and Oct. 6.

Can we get Coach Ric out of retirement? That guy never lost to W&L.

(also didn't)

[WLU78]

you guys kill me, you come on here and say in one breath that a degree from a well regarded university is no better than another degree, and the next breath that yea XXX school has a great reputation and the alumni are howty towty yadda yadda yadda  So a season on a winning team should not be considered better than a season on a losing team?

By Kid's reasoning, if one school takes all the kids with the best combines, and the other school gets a few kids with great combine scores and then fills out the team with kids that are slower, weaker, and generally more undisciplined that there will be no difference on the field at game time.  ROTFLMAO!!!!  

yea there are kids that achieve and there are kids that don't at all schools and all teams, but generally and I think you find it to be true that for the most part one school outperforms the other.  and you can get your panties out of a wad, I haven't called anybody a name, I just pointed out idiotic statements and generalizations like Camden County Community College equivilancies.  It just doesn't wash and you know it, for the most part there is a reason that the kid went to CCCC instead of Prestige U. and it is usually SAT scores and grades and the lack of discipline that lead to the scores and grades.  And Prestige U got to be Prestige U for a reason and it wasn't academic laziness on the part of the institution.

Finally, I wish I could bring some of the comments regarding financial aid and admissions from the future of DIII thread over here to show you you homers that what I suspected was going on with the ODAC domination by one school without football tradition was in fact probably going on.  But as Pat has pointed out, the new regs have been in force two years now and it will be interesting to see if the field continues to level out.

Finally, the Centennial, who is your source in the W&L athletic department that is telling you this?  Why would a school want to incur the extra travel expenses when you dominate your conference in athletics?  
http://www.odaconline.com/comm_cup.htm  congrats to the Generals for winning both mens and womens for 2006/2007

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

By Kid's reasoning, if one school takes all the kids with the best combines, and the other school gets a few kids with great combine scores and then fills out the team with kids that are slower, weaker, and generally more undisciplined that there will be no difference on the field at game time.  ROTFLMAO!!!!

As you know, there are a ton of people who don't register for these boards and simply read the banter as "guests."  A handful of those individuals bounce their opinions off me (through email, AIM, etc.) when something gets them going.

Your comments have struck a cord, and I certainly can't take any credit for the following riposte that found its way to my email inbox.  I have received permission from the author to post his thoughts verbatim.  Enjoy.

Bear Bryant (I think, and I paraphrase) said that the mark of a great coach is the ability to take his team and beat yours or to take your team and beat his.

Lost in the dialogue on academics and financial aid is the difference quality coaching and support of the administration has played in the success of the BC program.  How many of the slower, weaker and less disciplined kids did BC take and develop into contributing members of the football team and student body as a whole?  I'd guess more than our W&L friend would care to give credit for.

President Stone and Coach Clark play with the cards they are dealt, fairly and within the rules.  To suggest otherwise is foolish.  If they don't like the rules, work to change them or shut up.  Either is fine with me.

And I totally agree with my anonymous friend.  The Bridgewater coaching staff has done wonders with recruits who, as you say, were "slower, weaker, and generally more undisciplined" and made them into productive members of our football program, our school, and more importantly, society.

Kudos, again, to schools like Bridgewater who give "slower, weaker, and generally more undisciplined" kids a chance to grow.  Bridgewater's football program has certainly thrived because of their hard work and determination to succeed.

[willierobin]

My two-cents (that's all I can afford - I didn't go to W&L):
1. W&L is a great school. The top academic school in the ODAC (better stay there since Hopkins and maybe F&M are better).
2. All other ODAC schools are good private schools with different missions.
3. W&L should always win the "country club" sports...that's who they are.
4. This years football championship was a fluke. How often does the ODAC champ lose a league game? How often does the ODAC champ lose 3 games overall? W&L was a finesse team that got dominated by the power teams they played. F&M (Centennial team with a losing record) pounded W&L and kept the ball the whole game. Bridgewater gave the Generals a butt-whipping the same way. Wilkes embarrassed them running the ball down their throat. The only reason W&L won the league was because Guilford and E&H were able to upset the Eagles.
5. W&L students, parents and alumni tend to be arrogant, pompous and obnoxious a-holes. I'd rather have a beer with someone from any other ODAC school than W&L (who would probably want an expensive wine anyway...appearances being very important to the elitist snobs).

[Pat Coleman]

Hi ... um ... Not sure your last point is doing to help matters at all. Thanks. 

[allsky7]

My two-cents (that's all I can afford - I didn't go to W&L):
1. W&L is a great school. The top academic school in the ODAC (better stay there since Hopkins and maybe F&M are better).
2. All other ODAC schools are good private schools with different missions.
3. W&L should always win the "country club" sports...that's who they are.
4. This years football championship was a fluke. How often does the ODAC champ lose a league game? How often does the ODAC champ lose 3 games overall? W&L was a finesse team that got dominated by the power teams they played. F&M (Centennial team with a losing record) pounded W&L and kept the ball the whole game. Bridgewater gave the Generals a butt-whipping the same way. Wilkes embarrassed them running the ball down their throat. The only reason W&L won the league was because Guilford and E&H were able to upset the Eagles.
5. W&L students, parents and alumni tend to be arrogant, pompous and obnoxious a-holes. I'd rather have a beer with someone from any other ODAC school than W&L (who would probably want an expensive wine anyway...appearances being very important to the elitist snobs).

     W&L is the best academic school in the ODAC. Period!! Always has been. I am not going to get into the pissing contest as to how that translates to the real world. Who cares!!  ALL ODAC schools are offering important opportunities to a wide range of student needs for students from a wide range of backgrounds. This is a good thing.
     Whether or not W&L winning the ODAC last year was a fluke or not, I do not know. I guess time will tell. I have not researched this but if memory serves me, with the exception of the BC run, the ODAC champs over the years have had a fair number of losses. (in league and out)
     I'm sure that some of the students, parents, and alumni at W&L ARE arrogant, pompous, and obnoxious a-holes. I doubt they have a monopoly on that honor. To make a generalized statement covering everyone at W&L this way is a bit harsh and unfair. In my business dealings, I come in contact with 10 of the 14 ODAC schools (including W&L) on a somewhat regular basis. While I have not done a scientific study, I have not found W&L to be any worse in this regard than any of the others. I have also been a follower of the ODAC schools for over 30 years. I have been on the campus of most schools numerous times and had multiple dealings with a wide variety of folks.  Are those associated with W&L more inclined to be more arrogant, more pompous, and more likley obnoxious a-holes? Maybe.  However, I do suspect that if you have the preconceived idea that someone is a certain way without giving them a chance, they are much more likely to meet your expectations.  8)

[Jacketlawyer]

Whoa ... we scheduled Carnegie Mellon? Good lord.

After back-to-back weeks with Washington & Lee and the Tartans, our team should be demoralized by their relative lack of brainpower and football skill. When they lose, they won't even be able to sing "It's allright, it's OK, you'll all pump our gas someday!"

I'm advising APD to assemble a suicide watch task force for the weeks of Sept. 29 and Oct. 6.

Can we get Coach Ric out of retirement? That guy never lost to W&L.

(also didn't)

Loved Coach Ric.  He was one of the reasons why we were so good during the '90s.

But back to football as it currently exists.  Hopefully Pedro gets it done this year.  This is his 4th season, I believe, and it's time to produce some results.  I'd like to see 7-3, or heck, 6-4.  

But I'll take 5-5.  And this may (will) be a stretch.  We close the year with road games at Guilford and Bridgewater and a home game with the Tigers on November 10.  Based on our performances since 2004 against these teams, I don't think we'll be winning these games.  I also don't think we'll beat Johnny Hop or Denison (road games).

I do like our chances against W&L, E&H, and CUA, though, to win or keep it close.  I don't know much about Frostburg or Carnegie Mellon, but will assume from your tone, K-Mack, we will probably get worked.

[tigerfanalso]

I think the line has officially been crossed.  I respect and admire W&L's reputation. I respect and admire all of my friends and business associates that attended W&L. I don't know a W&L graduate that I don't respect. I don't  agree with the negative comments made on previous post. How can W&L's 2006 championship be a fluke when they won the conference on the field under ODAC rules. No such thing as a fluke on f'ball. The season is too long. One game can be a fluke but not an entire season; f'ball is just not that kind of game. I know that W&L sustained many key injuries by the time they played BC; did that make a difference ? Would the outcome of the game had been different w/o the injuries ? To call their championship a fluke makes no sense as they performed better than any other team in the ODAC against other ODAC teams. I find their championship refreshing and think it is healthy for the ODAC.   

[tigerfanalso]

AllSky

The 1977 team finished regular season 9-1. The loss was to Madison. Score was something like 13-10. They blocked a punt late in the game a recovered it for a TD. HSC finished 4th in the country; #1 in the South. Lost to Albany St. in the playoffs back in the day when only 8 teams went to the playoffs. I think D3 would do themselves a favor by returning to that format, but thats just my opinion.

Hope to see you in the Fall and glad to hear that Coach S is doing well !!!!

[allsky7]

Whoa ... we scheduled Carnegie Mellon? Good lord.

After back-to-back weeks with Washington & Lee and the Tartans, our team should be demoralized by their relative lack of brainpower and football skill. When they lose, they won't even be able to sing "It's allright, it's OK, you'll all pump our gas someday!"

I'm advising APD to assemble a suicide watch task force for the weeks of Sept. 29 and Oct. 6.

Can we get Coach Ric out of retirement? That guy never lost to W&L.

(also didn't)

Loved Coach Ric.  He was one of the reasons why we were so good during the '90s.

But back to football as it currently exists.  Hopefully Pedro gets it done this year.  This is his 4th season, I believe, and it's time to produce some results.  I'd like to see 7-3, or heck, 6-4.  

But I'll take 5-5.  And this may (will) be a stretch.  We close the year with road games at Guilford and Bridgewater and a home game with the Tigers on November 10.  Based on our performances since 2004 against these teams, I don't think we'll be winning these games.  I also don't think we'll beat Johnny Hop or Denison (road games).

I do like our chances against W&L, E&H, and CUA, though, to win or keep it close.  I don't know much about Frostburg or Carnegie Mellon, but will assume from your tone, K-Mack, we will probably get worked.

     Jacket....what was it you said a while back about hope springing eternal? Based on your post, it sounds like hope has already sprung right out the door. 

[allsky7]

AllSky

The 1977 team finished regular season 9-1. The loss was to Madison. Score was something like 13-10. They blocked a punt late in the game a recovered it for a TD. HSC finished 4th in the country; #1 in the South. Lost to Albany St. in the playoffs back in the day when only 8 teams went to the playoffs. I think D3 would do themselves a favor by returning to that format, but thats just my opinion.

Hope to see you in the Fall and glad to hear that Coach S is doing well !!!!

     Albany St. 1977.....one of the greatest games of all time on any level. I was ball boy on the Albany sideline. Unfortunately, the wrong team won.
     I have Sept 29th already on my schedule to head down to H-S and hang with the Stone Station crew. Sure would be nice to share a post game Tiger victory beverage with them. I also have Oct. 13th HC against W&L marked too. That is always fun but could be even more fun if both teams are in the hunt for the ODAC title. 
     

[Jacketlawyer]

Jacket....what was it you said a while back about hope springing eternal? Based on your post, it sounds like hope has already sprung right out the door. 

Yep.  I still have the hope, but at some point, you also have to remain realistic.  My analysis could be flawed however (and I hope it is).

I'm also trying to keep the topic on football, and football related matters.