FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[78rmc]

Have you ever heard some story about a R-MC guy scoring a TD, maybe in the 70s, and doing a backflip?

K-Mack, it was 1976 at Death Valley.  80+ yard pass from John Beauller to Jeff Hutchinson, down the sideline,  ran to the middle of the end zone, and did a flip, forward flip, I believe. 

[WLU78]

By Kid's reasoning, if one school takes all the kids with the best combines, and the other school gets a few kids with great combine scores and then fills out the team with kids that are slower, weaker, and generally more undisciplined that there will be no difference on the field at game time.  ROTFLMAO!!!!

As you know, there are a ton of people who don't register for these boards and simply read the banter as "guests."  A handful of those individuals bounce their opinions off me (through email, AIM, etc.) when something gets them going.

Your comments have struck a cord, and I certainly can't take any credit for the following riposte that found its way to my email inbox.  I have received permission from the author to post his thoughts verbatim.  Enjoy.

Bear Bryant (I think, and I paraphrase) said that the mark of a great coach is the ability to take his team and beat yours or to take your team and beat his.

Lost in the dialogue on academics and financial aid is the difference quality coaching and support of the administration has played in the success of the BC program.  How many of the slower, weaker and less disciplined kids did BC take and develop into contributing members of the football team and student body as a whole?  I'd guess more than our W&L friend would care to give credit for.

President Stone and Coach Clark play with the cards they are dealt, fairly and within the rules.  To suggest otherwise is foolish.  If they don't like the rules, work to change them or shut up.  Either is fine with me.

And I totally agree with my anonymous friend.  The Bridgewater coaching staff has done wonders with recruits who, as you say, were "slower, weaker, and generally more undisciplined" and made them into productive members of our football program, our school, and more importantly, society.

Kudos, again, to schools like Bridgewater who give "slower, weaker, and generally more undisciplined" kids a chance to grow.  Bridgewater's football program has certainly thrived because of their hard work and determination to succeed.

Kid, you missed the point altogether, and so it seems most of the BC readers.  Maybe that proves my point, the metaphor is just too far over your head.  Maybe somebody else on here can explain it to you.

I think I need to just give up.

[Pat Coleman]

I'm never happy to see a poster take his ball and go home but WLU78 was in danger of becoming a one-trick pony. If his only shtick was to call us dumb, idiotic, or otherwise beneath him, then I'm not going to shed too many tears here. 

[abnrgr]

I'm never happy to see a poster take his ball and go home but WLU78 was in danger of becoming a one-trick pony. If his only shtick was to call us dumb, idiotic, or otherwise beneath him, then I'm not going to shed too many tears here. 

Well I have never seen anybody asked to come back either......... If you dump poopie on this board, get ready for it to come back. Not for the thin skinned that's for sure

[yellow jacket]

JacketLawyer,

As a new grad of the R-MC football team, I am now able to post on the message board.  And although our record the past 3 years may not reflect it, Coach Arruza is the best thing that could have happened.  Not only has the collective GPA of the football team gone up (and less are on academic probation), but over the past 3 years, fewer and fewer athletes have left the team.  I believe the decline in the success of R-MC have been the number of players that have left the team.

Because of this, we have had fewer and fewer competitions at each spot and have had less depth than many other teams.  However, Coach Arruza has done wonders for us as a team and as men.  I feel that I would not have accomplished some of the things that I have without him.

Yes, he is hard.  Yes, his record isn't great.  However, I will stand by him and always support him 100%.  Frostburg State is a good team, good quarterback, but can be beatable.  Carnegie-Mellon, well, I've heard horror stories about them.  I have heard them be likened to Hopkins (great academically, solid athletically).

As to the recent postings about education and degrees, about where they come from. Having just graduated, and having to look for a job, I thought my academic accomplishments (Phi Beta Kappa, other honor societies) would have counted for something.  I even made a point of telling that to employers.  It didn't mean crap.  They could not have cared less (in my eyes).  Therefore, I do believe that success outside of an academic institution, in the real world, is more based on who you know than where you are from.  In that regard, alumni associations at respective schools do play a crucial role.

Also,  Recently, reports have come out saying that a higher education (no matter where you go) will cause you to earn $1,000,000 more in your lifetime.  I'd be interested to see how it breaks down compared to schools group by academic prowess.

[abnrgr]

Jacket
Good post. absolutely correct

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

I believe this was the conversation starter...

One has only to review this year's ratings by U.S. News and World Reports College Rankings and difficulty of W&L's admissions standards to appreciate what the football staff at W&L accomplished this past season.

That's fair.  W&L has tough admissions standards, they still "won" the conference football title, it was impressive.

Then you responded to someone's comment about admission standards not being lowered to help a football program with this...

Now you will incur the wrath of the BC faithful since you dared to utter out loud what we all suspect to be the reason some programs suddenly find ascendancy in their league.

Which seemed to suggest a reason for Bridgewater's ascendance in the ODAC.

Then came another comment perhaps pointing at BC again...

Just like D1 there are those in DIII that cut corners, and suddenly out of nowhere a dominant program emerges leaving many us saying hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Who knows, maybe you weren't indicting BC ... it just seemed like it (since we were the ones that went from 0-10 in 1998 to 12-1 in 2001).

Then you got me involved...

BTW--have you banned Kid?  He is very quiet lately.

And then came the question you stand by as your original point...

Do you, in all of your wisdom suspect there might be monkey business with aid to athletes?

Pat said yes, and no one else responded, which would seem to me (had I asked the question) that most would agree with what Pat said.  But it seems you didn't get the answer you wanted.

Then you threw the statement out there that got us non-W&L graduates going...

Whether you want to admit it or not, there is something to be said for some academic rigor in your undergraduate work.  Learning to read critically, write persuasively (spelling aside Hasa), formulate a thesis and defend it are tantamount to what the was intended by a liberal arts training.  Whether you continue to use those skills after your graduation is up to you, but there is value to mastering those skills beyond being a good person.

To me (and perhaps others), that mean't...

My school is better than your school.

Then you reintroduced your original point...

Different admission standards equate to different size football recruiting pools.

This is clearly a true statement.  I, again, feel you aren't hearing what you what to hear.

Then your true feelings come out...

[W&L] has a stronger program.  Period, that is how [W&L] got to be a "better academic school", and the kids that don't screw around, who are disciplined enough to make the good grades, have the extracurriculars, etc will generally outperform those that "didn't" have it.

Yes, I know, I inserted W&L for "better schools."

Then came this metaphor...

By Kid's reasoning, if one school takes all the kids with the best combines, and the other school gets a few kids with great combine scores and then fills out the team with kids that are slower, weaker, and generally more undisciplined that there will be no difference on the field at game time. ROTFLMAO!!!!

Not sure what you're laughing about.  That's exactly how BC earned five conference titles and won 10 playoff wins since 2000.  We turned kids into winners that W&L (and others) probably laughed at when recruiting them.

Maybe you and W&L should stop laughing.

[Jacketlawyer]

JacketLawyer,

As a new grad of the R-MC football team, I am now able to post on the message board.  And although our record the past 3 years may not reflect it, Coach Arruza is the best thing that could have happened.  Not only has the collective GPA of the football team gone up (and less are on academic probation), but over the past 3 years, fewer and fewer athletes have left the team.  I believe the decline in the success of R-MC have been the number of players that have left the team.

Because of this, we have had fewer and fewer competitions at each spot and have had less depth than many other teams.  However, Coach Arruza has done wonders for us as a team and as men.  I feel that I would not have accomplished some of the things that I have without him.

Yes, he is hard.  Yes, his record isn't great.  However, I will stand by him and always support him 100%.  Frostburg State is a good team, good quarterback, but can be beatable.  Carnegie-Mellon, well, I've heard horror stories about them.  I have heard them be likened to Hopkins (great academically, solid athletically).

As to the recent postings about education and degrees, about where they come from. Having just graduated, and having to look for a job, I thought my academic accomplishments (Phi Beta Kappa, other honor societies) would have counted for something.  I even made a point of telling that to employers.  It didn't mean crap.  They could not have cared less (in my eyes).  Therefore, I do believe that success outside of an academic institution, in the real world, is more based on who you know than where you are from.  In that regard, alumni associations at respective schools do play a crucial role.

Also,  Recently, reports have come out saying that a higher education (no matter where you go) will cause you to earn $1,000,000 more in your lifetime.  I'd be interested to see how it breaks down compared to schools group by academic prowess.

Excellent post, and I appreciate your very well written and articulated points.  As I've said on the board before, I'm all for academics.

I'm sorry for your experiences in the job market thus far, but you have to give it some time.  You only just graduated a few weeks ago; finding a job can take months, especially the one you want.  It's become cliche, but you have to be patient. 8)

If an employer does not recognize Phi Beta Kappa, and what it means, you need to look at places where it does mean something (though I find this hard to believe).  At any rate, that PBK key of yours could probably be used to get into a great graduate school along with a juicy stipend. . .  

If I can help you in any way, please PM me.  I'm always glad to help a fellow graduate, if I can.

[Pat Coleman]

I'm not sure W&L itself is laughing, anyway. It's probably wishing WLU78 would stop playing 'old boys network' online like it's still the 1950s.

My boss went to a SUNY school. His boss went to Rutgers. We didn't need ivy league pretender credentials to be successful.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

I think I need to just give up.

I certainly hope you don't.

[yellow jacket]

Jacket,

Thanks for your offer.  I did not mean to convey the notion that I did not have a job.  I actually do.  But during the interview process, it seemed to me that academics were not the suit they were looking for.

As to grad school....I would have done it, but god, I was ready for tests to be over.  Little did I know that working for my current job I will be taking 3 or 4 financial tests.  Oops.

Thanks anyways for the offer for help Jacket.  This is what I think separates small schools that can be found in the ODAC as compared to bigger schools.  Alumni support.

[kickerdad]

WLU78,

Now that we have all this stuff on the table and out of the way, tell us what you really think your team will have this year. My interest is because Averett will be facing W&L for the first time mid Sept. in Salem, Virginia and I have a couple family members that went to W&L in the late 60'S who are interested in coming to Salem with us. They claim they haven't been following the football team of late, and were curious as to what you guys will look like.

As far as Averett is concerned, they are in a "rebuilding" (for lack of a better word) year. They have lots of guys returning that are lettermen, however for 50% of those players their playing time has been limited. Plus Averett will be coming off games with the #1 team in the country and one of the #1 contenters for the ODAC this year (Guilford). So there is no telling what condition (physically and mentally) we will be in.

[allsky7]

Jacket,

Thanks for your offer.  I did not mean to convey the notion that I did not have a job.  I actually do.  But during the interview process, it seemed to me that academics were not the suit they were looking for.

As to grad school....I would have done it, but god, I was ready for tests to be over.  Little did I know that working for my current job I will be taking 3 or 4 financial tests.  Oops.

Thanks anyways for the offer for help Jacket.  This is what I think separates small schools that can be found in the ODAC as compared to bigger schools.  Alumni support.

     yellow jacket,

     Things really don't change that much after graduation. Instead of going in debt out the yazoo on tuition, board, books, keg parties, frat dues, etc...all your $ just goes  to your mortgage, car payment, insurance, children, etc. 
     Alumni support is very important but I think it goes even deeper than that. I think there is a common bond between small school grads (like the ODAC) that transcends what particular school you went to. It may not get you the job but it might get you in the door. I doubt very seriously you will find that to the same degree at larger institutions.
      Best of luck and GOOOOO TIGERS!! 
     

[yellow jacket]

I agree with your whole post, except for the Go Tigers portion  .  I thought debt in college was bad.  Real life is horrible, and I'm still acting like a poor college student.

Hopefully I'll be able to watch my team beat the Tigers this year (unfortunately, I went 0-4).

[CNU85]

I agree with your whole post, except for the Go Tigers portion  .  I thought debt in college was bad.  Real life is horrible, and I'm still acting like a poor college student.

Hopefully I'll be able to watch my team beat the Tigers this year (unfortunately, I went 0-4).

I agree with your thoughts. As a person in a position to review resumes and involved in the hiring process, I do look at what school the candidate attended. I do not look for GPA and I do not give extra consideration for the Greek activities in, and of, themselves. I do, however,  give credence to extra-curicular activity - that's where the PBK stuff will show up, but other things are considered equally. I think every person that is in a position to review candidates' resumes is different.

Obviously anyone from CNU or William & Mary makes it to the right pile in round 1!!