FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[fmfdoc]

Thanks for the welcome guys. I am certain as the season rolls the intensity of discussions and bluster will increase dramatically. Thanks for not calling me a knucklehead in my first post. You might need to with this one.

With regards to the facilities discussion- In reality, players aspire to go to nationally recognized programs like Southern Cal, Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Florida, etc.  Their second choice is the regional powers like Va Tech, LSU, Tenn, Oklahoma, Nebraska or State schools/Universities names that usually get the best players in the state not matter how bad their seasons are- Penn State, Texas, UNC, South Carolina. We always hear the stories about how it was Joe Averageguy's dream to always go to Big State U and now he is out there fulfilling their dream. It doesn't matter how good or bad the facilities are in these cases. Right now, if USC's locker room was a port-a-potty, top-notch players would still be clamoring to get in. For years Miami (FL) has had some of the worst facilities in DI, but (until the last 2-3 years) they have been able to pull in some of the best talent in the nation. It is only when they are recruiting against each other at equal levels (say 'Bama – Georgia) that the quality of the facilities comes into play with the recruits.

Being brutally honest, most the guys at DIII level schools did not aspire to go that school- they grew up dreaming of throwing the winning TD in the Rose Bowl. They sort of gravitated to DIII for a variety of reasons. I am not saying they are not great hard-working, smart students and exceptional athletes, because every DIII school is loaded with people that was the best player in their HS or all-conference players. Yet, for whatever reason, many of these people were overlooked at the I and I-AA levels and may have never heard of some of these DIII schools until he is contacted by the football staff of the school. Consequently, it does become a matter of what school has the nicest locker room, or field house, or stadium.

The youth of today are impressed with the "bling".  It is imperative that they upgrade facilities in order to recruit top athletes and students. Years ago colleges did not compete for students like they do now. Many are waiving application fees and processing applications over the internet. The DIII schools are competing not only against each other, but the big state schools with tax money as well. Students are looking for that big rec facility with climbing walls and treadmills, ellipticals and dorms that look like the Hyatt.

Heck, as an adult, if I am looking for a place to live, I would prefer a wooded, gated community with a lake; clubhouse with a huge pool, racquetball courts, gym with all the weight/fitness equipment Allsky could sell, as well as a championship caliber golf course (what I can afford is substantially less than that, but that is what I would want). I know a lot of the players will look at the campus, location, academics, etc., but are naturally drawn to the "peripherals". Therefore, if the team's records and coaching staff and school curriculum were equal, it would be natural for a player to choose a place with the better facilities. The truly amazing coaches are the ones like Coach Clark when he first started at BC that are the ones that can sell recruits on a vision even when they are losing.

Kid and Pat -great points. You are absolutely correct a fancy
pressbox never won a game. It does help though when you have a nice place for the donors to be schmoozed while they are watching the game. CNU85 also factored in several important issues –cost being #1 and location being #2. However, if I were a young player I would put one thing he mentioned above winning records, losing records, facilites, and everything else ... % of females and their respective attractiveness.... Oh and of course! The cafeteria food.

[skoaltrain]

Ah.  It's that time of year again.  Time to return from a hot summer to chicken quarters and BC Football.  Pac, you should know that 3 lousy years do not tend to produce many trash talkers.  Thus we have Peace, Love and Chicken Quarters for another week. 
Go Eagles!

I thought you had graduated!  Talk about "Return of the Jedi."  I just hope the Religion Major had gotten a job over the summer and has some "coin" to donate to Stone Station for all the plates in his lifetime that he has had the opportunity to partake in.  If Religion Major coughs up some funds then we all in the D3 World would know the true meaning of "Peace, Love, Chicken Quarters, and Pay'in Up Sucka's."  Come on Dan "The Traffic Man," give it up for the effort.  Glad to see you are back in "the saddle."  Let's just hope he got a great offering during his summer months. 

[allsky7]

Thanks for the welcome guys. I am certain as the season rolls the intensity of discussions and bluster will increase dramatically. Thanks for not calling me a knucklehead in my first post. You might need to with this one.

With regards to the facilities discussion- In reality, players aspire to go to nationally recognized programs like Southern Cal, Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Florida, etc.  Their second choice is the regional powers like Va Tech, LSU, Tenn, Oklahoma, Nebraska or State schools/Universities names that usually get the best players in the state not matter how bad their seasons are- Penn State, Texas, UNC, South Carolina. We always hear the stories about how it was Joe Averageguy's dream to always go to Big State U and now he is out there fulfilling their dream. It doesn't matter how good or bad the facilities are in these cases. Right now, if USC's locker room was a port-a-potty, top-notch players would still be clamoring to get in. For years Miami (FL) has had some of the worst facilities in DI, but (until the last 2-3 years) they have been able to pull in some of the best talent in the nation. It is only when they are recruiting against each other at equal levels (say 'Bama – Georgia) that the quality of the facilities comes into play with the recruits.

Being brutally honest, most the guys at DIII level schools did not aspire to go that school- they grew up dreaming of throwing the winning TD in the Rose Bowl. They sort of gravitated to DIII for a variety of reasons. I am not saying they are not great hard-working, smart students and exceptional athletes, because every DIII school is loaded with people that was the best player in their HS or all-conference players. Yet, for whatever reason, many of these people were overlooked at the I and I-AA levels and may have never heard of some of these DIII schools until he is contacted by the football staff of the school. Consequently, it does become a matter of what school has the nicest locker room, or field house, or stadium.

The youth of today are impressed with the "bling".  It is imperative that they upgrade facilities in order to recruit top athletes and students. Years ago colleges did not compete for students like they do now. Many are waiving application fees and processing applications over the internet. The DIII schools are competing not only against each other, but the big state schools with tax money as well. Students are looking for that big rec facility with climbing walls and treadmills, ellipticals and dorms that look like the Hyatt.

Heck, as an adult, if I am looking for a place to live, I would prefer a wooded, gated community with a lake; clubhouse with a huge pool, racquetball courts, gym with all the weight/fitness equipment Allsky could sell, as well as a championship caliber golf course (what I can afford is substantially less than that, but that is what I would want). I know a lot of the players will look at the campus, location, academics, etc., but are naturally drawn to the "peripherals". Therefore, if the team's records and coaching staff and school curriculum were equal, it would be natural for a player to choose a place with the better facilities. The truly amazing coaches are the ones like Coach Clark when he first started at BC that are the ones that can sell recruits on a vision even when they are losing.

Kid and Pat -great points. You are absolutely correct a fancy
pressbox never won a game. It does help though when you have a nice place for the donors to be schmoozed while they are watching the game. CNU85 also factored in several important issues –cost being #1 and location being #2. However, if I were a young player I would put one thing he mentioned above winning records, losing records, facilites, and everything else ... % of females and their respective attractiveness.... Oh and of course! The cafeteria food.

     KNUCKLEHEAD!!  I'm kidding.   

     BTW...I have no delusions of grandiosity.  I was good enough to play at the DI or I-AA level except  I was too slow, too small, not strong enough, and otherwise didn't have enough talent.  Other than that, I could have been a star at a higher level.  The large majority of D3 players, if they are honest with themselves, would likely come to the same realization.

[hasanova]

Guilford has published a roster, schedule and outlook in the attached link.  The Quakers play three USASAC teams, Southern Virginia and the normal six ODAC foes.  The 101 players I count on the roster are the highest number I remember.  Thankfully, I don't have long to wait - 10 days and counting!  See you at the  games!

http://www.guilford.edu/athletics/football/

[fmfdoc]

Guilford has published a roster, schedule and outlook in the attached link....The 101 players I count on the roster are the highest number I remember. 

http://www.guilford.edu/athletics/football/

According to the ODAC 2007 Media Guide, (only because I have no real life I counted the number of Fr each school reported), BC has 64 Fr, Cath- 36, E&H 72 (Gee, they only have about 1,000 students. Does the whole FR class play football?), GC 61, HSC 37, RMC 44, W&L 21. That could lead to the larger numbers.
Do any of you have stats on what percentage of freshmen actually finish four years on the team?
I see Guilford has 2 xfer from ECU. Are there any stats on what % of the players start as Fr in DIII and transfer or are lured away to the DI and IAA?

[Pat Coleman]

Not many players go from D-III to a scholarship division because you have to sit out a year.

[pakownr97]

Leave it to a Packer fan with over 300 posts to not be able to figure out how to use the quote feature on this board!!

Skol Vikings!!!

CNWho?,

I know how to use the quote feature on this board, I was just attempting something new.  

Maybe your Viqueens will try something new -- like winning a Super Bowl!    

GO PACK GO!

[hasanova]

Not many players go from D-III to a scholarship division because you have to sit out a year.

I agree with Pat.  It's not unusual, however, for guys to "move up" to DIII for a variety of reasons.  In some cases, for example, they were originally recruited by a DIII, found they were going to have considerable pine time at DI and realized they just wanted to play.  There are lots of other reasons for a transfer, of course, but many DIII schools get a few DI, DII and DI-AA players every fall ... and they can play right away! 

[allsky7]

Not many players go from D-III to a scholarship division because you have to sit out a year.

I agree with Pat.  It's not unusual, however, for guys to "move up" to DIII for a variety of reasons.  In some cases, for example, they were originally recruited by a DIII, found they were going to have considerable pine time at DI and realized they just wanted to play.  There are lots of other reasons for a transfer, of course, but many DIII schools get a few DI, DII and DI-AA players every fall ... and they can play right away! 

     The only ODAC kid I know of to move to D1 is the kid from H-S a few years ago that transferred to Clemson. His name escapes me at the moment. He was actually starting or getting considerable PT until he got hurt. (broke his leg I think) Maybe someone can add others to this list. Bet there aren't many.  8)

[CNU85]

Leave it to a Packer fan with over 300 posts to not be able to figure out how to use the quote feature on this board!!

Skol Vikings!!!

CNWho?,

I know how to use the quote feature on this board, I was just attempting something new.  

Maybe your Viqueens will try something new -- like winning a Super Bowl!    

GO PACK GO!

Oh yeah? Ok....mmm.....well after trying to think of a good comeback and coming up empty.....I'll revert to my sophomoric youth.....

your momma! 

[religion_major]

Ah.  It's that time of year again.  Time to return from a hot summer to chicken quarters and BC Football.  Pac, you should know that 3 lousy years do not tend to produce many trash talkers.  Thus we have Peace, Love and Chicken Quarters for another week. 
Go Eagles!

I thought you had graduated!  Talk about "Return of the Jedi."  I just hope the Religion Major had gotten a job over the summer and has some "coin" to donate to Stone Station for all the plates in his lifetime that he has had the opportunity to partake in.  If Religion Major coughs up some funds then we all in the D3 World would know the true meaning of "Peace, Love, Chicken Quarters, and Pay'in Up Sucka's."  Come on Dan "The Traffic Man," give it up for the effort.  Glad to see you are back in "the saddle."  Let's just hope he got a great offering during his summer months. 

You'll be happy to know that I have gotten that job over the summer.  The sad part is that my poker skills have gotten worse.  Translation, extra donation to the coffers of Stone Station.  As for graduation, they loved me so much that BC begged me to come back to this year just to boost your share of the poker winnings.  So now we have the true meaning of "Peace, Love and Chicken Quarters."   

[allsky7]

     Interesting story about 59 year old guy playing D3 football. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=ap-59-year-oldlinebacker&prov=ap&type=lgns

[fmfdoc]

Not many players go from D-III to a scholarship division because you have to sit out a year.

I agree with Pat.  It's not unusual, however, for guys to "move up" to DIII for a variety of reasons.  In some cases, for example, they were originally recruited by a DIII, found they were going to have considerable pine time at DI and realized they just wanted to play.  There are lots of other reasons for a transfer, of course, but many DIII schools get a few DI, DII and DI-AA players every fall ... and they can play right away! 

Thanks for the information-
If I was in college I would want to go someplace to play not be a field level spectator and a cheerleader dressed in football uniform.

Loosely quoting Steve Logan, former ECU coach and now offensive coach at BC (the other one, in Boston). "It is much better to go to Kent State and play than go to Notre Dame and sit on the bench."

[K-Mack]

Kmack - I do agree with your pick of Thomas Nelson (T-Nel as we called him) for an All-Time ODAC team.  Having played under him for three years, I can vouch that he can still do stuff in the weight room and intramurals that mere mortals only dream of.   We got to watch film of him one time and he was nasty.  As for Emory reps on the team, what about Doug Reavis and Chris Miller as well?  Nathan Tuck (WR) was also pretty good at Emory.  Hands down though I think that Adam Dowe would also be a good pick on the D side of the ball.

Thomas Nelson's 4-interception game vs. Ferrum in 1996 puts mine to shame. I think he took two back to the house. All I got going for me in comparison to his game and the Scottie Brubeck 4-INT game for R-MC vs. Sydney is that mine came against an All-American QB and WR and high-powered offense.

But what's the sense comparing, they were all sweet.

Also, in '97 ... I think it was Nelson (maybe Gerald Jones) who was injured for a play ... which happened to be the game-winning TD pass with 13 seconds left.

Sorry ODAC'ers, but knee-deep in Kickoff and perusing other boards for the past week or so, I'm gonna be responding to a lot of old stuff.

P.S. Hampden-Sydney's campus is pretty cute in late fall, I'll give allsky that.

I still can't imagine why it wouldn't be better-looking with women there, but that's a discussion for another day.

[K-Mack]

"Pedro came from Wheaton, he knows a good team when he sees it, and he also knows his predecessor apparently left the cupboard rather bare."

Above quote from K-Mack.

Hope you don't mind my jumping in here just to fill in a bit of the detail. I'm an R-MC alum living in St. Louis. Pedro Arruza played at Wheaton, but apparently never coached there. Immediately prior to being named R-MC head coach he was an assistant at Washington U here in St. Louis for about 5 years. Wash U competes well in football in the UAA but it's not really a football conference. So he really came directly from a fairly average conference. If I'm off about that, please correct me. Here's a link to Arruza's bio on the R-MC athletics page.

http://www.rmc.edu/athletics/football/PedroArruza.asp

Having said all that, I agree that it takes time to build a football program and this is certainly a pivotal year for R-MC in that regard.

Fair enough. Although I think Wash U. was playoff-caliber in at least one of those years and had winning seasons, and he was on good teams at Wheaton ... but, point taken.

Holy crap, I just looked. Wash U 7-4 in 99, 5-4 in 2000, 6-3 in 2001, 6-4 every year since.

Guess I know what to pencil them in for this year.

Interesting from the bio though, he was also recruiting coordinator at Wash U.

Guess we gotta see some of this talent coming in soon.

Honestly though, outside of maybe Michigan, I can't think of many states in D3 that are tougher to recruit than Va. Lots of talent, but lots of options from I-AA on down, plus schools from other eastern states poaching talent, plus the price difference at CNU, plus the winning traditions you gotta battle.

Really an uphill battle for the Jackets right now. Gotta see some signs this year.

Thanks for the bio, I knew he was a '95 Wheaton grad, just assumed the years between there and Wash U. in 99 were spent with Swider & the Thunder. They were not.