FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

I'm not starting a Vogelbach vs. Highfill debate (in other words, I'm not saying Highfill is better than Vogelbach), I'm simply trying to point out that Vogelbach has gotten his 8,131 passing yards and 88 touchdowns mainly because of the system he is in.

Perhaps a debate is not your purpose, but this post is doing a great impersonation of a debate.    Good luck to Jeff and the Eagles - they're a fine player and a great team, certainly worthy of any accolades they receive.

Jeff would rather be 15-0.  Josh can have POTY, AA, and the records.  He certainly deserves it with the numbers he has, and will, put up.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

I have a feeling BC might actually lose votes this week as their opponents' records pan out.

This week as in next week? Poll is out for this week.

Initially, I was thinking this week, but even a big win v. LaGrange could do it

Yeah, and while the voters are at it, perhaps they will drop;

No. 1 Mount Union (wins against 0-2 Averett, 0-2 Otterbein)
No. 6 St. John Fisher (wins against 0-3 King's, 1-1 Buffalo State, 0-2 Rochester)
No. 8 Central (wins against 0-3 St. Thomas, 0-2 Hope, 0-2 Luther)
No. 22 St. Olaf (wins against 0-2 Luther, 0-2 Valley City State, and 1-1 Hamline).

Silly logic, Mr. Cummings.

You don't penalize a school (in a poll) for who they play.  You penalize them for how they play.

[Trenches]

[Vogelbach (career): 59.7 completion percentage, 11.9 yards a completion, 1:23 interception-to-pass attempt ratio, 1.1 yards a carry, and Guilford scores every 14 times he touches the ball (touches are pass attempts + carries).

Highfill (career): 60.2 completion percentage, 13.8 yards a completion, 1:28 interception-to-pass attempt ratio, 4.3 yards a carry, and Bridgewater scores every 13 times he touches the ball.

I'm not starting a Vogelbach vs. Highfill debate (in other words, I'm not saying Highfill is better than   Vogelbach), I'm simply trying to point out that Vogelbach has gotten his 8,131 passing yards and 88 touchdowns mainly because of the system he is in.

   To play devil's advocate ...  I won't argue that Josh has talent around him. He's had some great WR and Oline protection. However, a few things to consider in your highfill debate:

  - The number of attempts... completion % being almost the same but with more attempts is nothing to overlook. This also helps with touches; I would imagine a QB who has a top run game would score on a higher percentage of touches as well.
  - The y/c numbers... I'm not sure of BC's exact offense (so don't quote me on it, haha) but I would say that Josh throws quick outs, short routes, and dump passes more often than BC. This may explain alot of 6-9 yard gains, that would bring an avg down.
  - The interception ratio I have two things for... First, Josh has looked better this year. More level headed and controlled. Doesn't seem to be pushing as much; Three ints in three games (hopefully hell stay that way). The second is a reason for this and an "arguement" as to why many of his stats can be thought of in a different way...

... with Guiford... everyone knows the pass is coming... and he still gets it done. Highfill should have stats like this... he's a good quarter back with an even better run game. It should open everything up for him. GC has gotten better with the run but still can't be compared to BC in that respect. So far this year Josh has avg 396 ypg passing, over 6 TD/g passing, and a 72% completion percentage.... and I'm pretty sure we all knew the pass was coming.
   That last part is the most important thing I had to say because you weren't arguing highfill v. Vogelbach, it was about the system. But it takes some talent to have everyone know you are passing and you can still produce like that.
        ok... done with the devil's advocate now. 

   What I will say is... I have likely seen Josh play more than anyone else on this board and the kid is legit. He can read plays and defenses and cut them up. He can throw long or short and still put a perfect touch on it if given time. And he has the intangibles (leadership, carisma, room to improve, etc...).  At this pace (career), when all is said and done, his name has to atleast come up in the conversation of "best D3 quarterbacks."

[Trenches]

I'm not starting a Vogelbach vs. Highfill debate (in other words, I'm not saying Highfill is better than Vogelbach), I'm simply trying to point out that Vogelbach has gotten his 8,131 passing yards and 88 touchdowns mainly because of the system he is in.

Perhaps a debate is not your purpose, but this post is doing a great impersonation of a debate.    Good luck to Jeff and the Eagles - they're a fine player and a great team, certainly worthy of any accolades they receive.

Jeff would rather be 15-0.  Josh can have POTY, AA, and the records.  He certainly deserves it with the numbers he has, and will, put up.

I can gaurantee that josh would rather have a 15 TD, 2000 yd season, and a ring on his finger than 38 TDs, 4000 yds, and an empty hand.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

I'm not starting a Vogelbach vs. Highfill debate (in other words, I'm not saying Highfill is better than Vogelbach), I'm simply trying to point out that Vogelbach has gotten his 8,131 passing yards and 88 touchdowns mainly because of the system he is in.

Perhaps a debate is not your purpose, but this post is doing a great impersonation of a debate.    Good luck to Jeff and the Eagles - they're a fine player and a great team, certainly worthy of any accolades they receive.

Jeff would rather be 15-0.  Josh can have POTY, AA, and the records.  He certainly deserves it with the numbers he has, and will, put up.

I can gaurantee that josh would rather have a 15 TD, 2000 yd season, and a ring on his finger than 38 TDs, 4000 yds, and an empty hand.

Oh, I know.  Any QB would.

I'm just saying we can share the recognition by Jeff going 15-0 and Josh getting all the awards. 

[Jacketlawyer]

Looks like I'm going to have to add a little levity this morning.

My team lost.  And this was after I crowed about the defense.  But I'm enjoying the Bridgewater and Guilford traffic this morning, so please keep it coming. 8)

But don't worry about me.  I consoled myself with Police tickets for the November 6 show at the JPJ arena in C'ville.  Have you got yours?  Ha. 8)

On another good note, my copy of Shorty arrived over the weekend, and it's well worth owning/watching.  There is coverage of the Guilford, W&L, and BC games from that year, and the story is very engaging and warming.  I hope Mr. Simms is with the H-S program for a long time. 8)

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

[...] with Guiford... everyone knows the pass is coming... and he still gets it done. [...]

I'm tired of this argument.  It's darn near impossible to stop quick, short passes.  So yeah, everyone knows he will dump it off quickly and let his receivers do all the work, but teams try and stop the receivers - not Vogelbach.

If anything, Vogelbach's completion percentage should be better.  Sub-60% in that system?  Ehh, not great.

Is this good bulletin board material or what?! You're welcome Quaker fans.

And again, Bridgewater has had more success with a dual threat QB than just a passer.  Lutz led us to the Stagg in '02, Wakefield led us to the semifinals in '03, and Highfill led us to the quarterfinals in '05.  It's much harder to prepare for a team that has a QB that can hurt you with his arm and legs.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

[...] It's much harder to prepare for a team that has a QB that can hurt you with his arm and legs.

As most coaches will say, the hardest play to defend is the broken play.

Get a signal caller than can improvise with his feet, and you have a chance to win every Saturday.

[ace]

Okay,  a little help from the EHC faithful. Coming down this weekend (8hr ride) for the game. What time does tailgating start? Where do they park for tailgating? Anything special I should know?
Appreciate any help, leaving around 3 AM and going right to field, if that is early enough?

[Pat Coleman]

Wasn't Hasanova at the Stagg Bowl last year? Did he not go into the stadium?

That's where the best Division III quarterback he's seen was playing -- assuming he looked at the field.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Wasn't Hasanova at the Stagg Bowl last year? Did he not go into the stadium?

That's where the best Division III quarterback he's seen was playing -- assuming he looked at the field.

When you see a quarterback play 14 times, and others only once (maybe twice), I can see someone's thinking becoming fuzzy.

[pakownr97]

I'm not starting a Vogelbach vs. Highfill debate (in other words, I'm not saying Highfill is better than Vogelbach), I'm simply trying to point out that Vogelbach has gotten his 8,131 passing yards and 88 touchdowns mainly because of the system he is in.

Perhaps a debate is not your purpose, but this post is doing a great impersonation of a debate.    Good luck to Jeff and the Eagles - they're a fine player and a great team, certainly worthy of any accolades they receive.

     I think anytime you talk about the "best" at anything, you open a can of worms. There are so many variables that come into play it is practically an impossible task. Statistics only account for part of the equation IMO. Guess it can make for some interesting message board and tailgate talk though. 

I am going to reserve the right to update my opinion after Oct 13, but I will say this:  I think Vogelbach is a better fit for GC, and Highfill a better fit for BC.  Overall, I think Vogelbach is a better D3 QB.  Matt, it may not be as close as you think.  The best D3 QB I have ever seen?  I think it's the Trinity QB who was banned from their Stagg Bowl team.  

I do know one thing about D3 QBs.  That I am going to see a fun game on Oct. 13.  It may not be fun after the game, but that should be the most entertaining game that I will see all year.  That 'Nova guy better show up!

GO BC!

[hasanova]

I'm not starting a Vogelbach vs. Highfill debate (in other words, I'm not saying Highfill is better than Vogelbach), I'm simply trying to point out that Vogelbach has gotten his 8,131 passing yards and 88 touchdowns mainly because of the system he is in.

Perhaps a debate is not your purpose, but this post is doing a great impersonation of a debate.    Good luck to Jeff and the Eagles - they're a fine player and a great team, certainly worthy of any accolades they receive.

Jeff would rather be 15-0.  Josh can have POTY, AA, and the records.  He certainly deserves it with the numbers he has, and will, put up.

Matt, for gosh sake, Vogelbach would rather be 15-0 as well. 

[hasanova]

Wasn't Hasanova at the Stagg Bowl last year? Did he not go into the stadium?

That's where the best Division III quarterback he's seen was playing -- assuming he looked at the field.

Yes, I was there.  I enjoyed the game and the talent on field, which by the way, one had to be inside the stadium to see.  Just curious - have you ever personally seen Vogelbach play or are you relying heavily on what Matt says through his perpetually BC-colored glasses?  I truly defer to your and Matt's superior knowledge of DIII football, but I honestly don't completely understand why many purely innocuous things I write seem to be a lightning rod for perceived and, to me, undeserved sarcasm.  Peace

[hasanova]

Wasn't Hasanova at the Stagg Bowl last year? Did he not go into the stadium?

That's where the best Division III quarterback he's seen was playing -- assuming he looked at the field.

When you see a quarterback play 14 times, and others only once (maybe twice), I can see someone's thinking becoming fuzzy.

Perhaps that applies to you and Highfill as well.