FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Jacketlawyer]

What's it going to take to prevent future ODAC teams from getting walloped in the first round of the playoffs?  This is the second straight year the ODAC standard-bearer has been ousted immediately.  I mean no disrespect to the Tigers; the accounts of the game on this board indicate the it was closer than the score illustrates. 8)

I know we've covered this before in prior posts, but the timing is right to revisit the topic, especially since it's a year later, and hopefully we're all a little bit wiser!

[hasanova]

What's it going to take to prevent future ODAC teams from getting walloped in the first round of the playoffs?  This is the second straight year the ODAC standard-bearer has been ousted immediately.  I mean no disrespect to the Tigers; the accounts of the game on this board indicate the it was closer than the score illustrates. 8)

I know we've covered this before in prior posts, but the timing is right to revisit the topic, especially since it's a year later, and hopefully we're all a little bit wiser!

It sounds a lot like we (the ODAC) get pushed around on the Offensive and Defensive lines due to a difference in size.   You were at the Stagg Bowl last year, jacketlawyer, as was I, and I also saw some marked differences in team speed and depth.     

[religion_major]

What's it going to take to prevent future ODAC teams from getting walloped in the first round of the playoffs?  This is the second straight year the ODAC standard-bearer has been ousted immediately.  I mean no disrespect to the Tigers; the accounts of the game on this board indicate the it was closer than the score illustrates. 8)

I know we've covered this before in prior posts, but the timing is right to revisit the topic, especially since it's a year later, and hopefully we're all a little bit wiser!

It sounds a lot like we (the ODAC) get pushed around on the Offensive and Defensive lines due to a difference in size.   You were at the Stagg Bowl last year, jacketlawyer, as was I, and I also saw some marked differences in team speed and depth.     

One thing that might help prevent that from happening is for the whole conference to play tougher nonconference opponetts.  In the years that Bridgewater was going deep in the playoffs, they played at least one game against a playoff team in their nonconference slate.  This will help the teams understande just what they are up against at the next level.  Playing these games also helps coaches to see just what a difference getting players that are bigger, stronger and faster can make.

[Jacketlawyer]

What's it going to take to prevent future ODAC teams from getting walloped in the first round of the playoffs?  This is the second straight year the ODAC standard-bearer has been ousted immediately.  I mean no disrespect to the Tigers; the accounts of the game on this board indicate the it was closer than the score illustrates. 8)

I know we've covered this before in prior posts, but the timing is right to revisit the topic, especially since it's a year later, and hopefully we're all a little bit wiser!

It sounds a lot like we (the ODAC) get pushed around on the Offensive and Defensive lines due to a difference in size.   You were at the Stagg Bowl last year, jacketlawyer, as was I, and I also saw some marked differences in team speed and depth.     

Where do we got to get it?  And assuming we know where, why aren't we?

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

What's it going to take to prevent future ODAC teams from getting walloped in the first round of the playoffs?  This is the second straight year the ODAC standard-bearer has been ousted immediately.  I mean no disrespect to the Tigers; the accounts of the game on this board indicate the it was closer than the score illustrates. 8)

I know we've covered this before in prior posts, but the timing is right to revisit the topic, especially since it's a year later, and hopefully we're all a little bit wiser!

It sounds a lot like we (the ODAC) get pushed around on the Offensive and Defensive lines due to a difference in size.   You were at the Stagg Bowl last year, jacketlawyer, as was I, and I also saw some marked differences in team speed and depth.     

One thing that might help prevent that from happening is for the whole conference to play tougher nonconference opponetts.  In the years that Bridgewater was going deep in the playoffs, they played at least one game against a playoff team in their nonconference slate.  This will help the teams understande just what they are up against at the next level.  Playing these games also helps coaches to see just what a difference getting players that are bigger, stronger and faster can make.

I disagree.

The 2000 to 2005 Bridgewater teams that won a combined 10 playoff games were deep. The 2006 W&L and 2007 H-SC teams weren't. That simple.

For anyone other than BC to win the ODAC and be successful in the playoffs, they need to go 10-0 and get a couple home games. I say that, because the Eagles have shown they can go on the road and win;

2000: 59-42 win over #16 W&J
2003: 26-3 win over #20 CNU
2003: 13-9 win over #18 Lycoming
2005: 24-13 win over #14 Thiel

Unfortunately, W&L and H-SC had to go on the road to #11 Wilkes and #6 Wesley, respectively. They had no chance entering the postseason with two or more regular season losses. The only year BC entered the NCAA playoffs with two losses (2004), we lost in the first round at #5 Washington & Jefferson (albeit by only seven in double OT).

So yeah, IMO, the key is to go 10-0 and host. More than likely, you'll play a team or two that you should beat, you get your playoff experience in those games, then you can maybe go on the road a beat a top 20 team.

Uh oh ... I'm starting to sound like Snakehandler.

[marc]

I know its really early to talk about but who does Bridgewater have coming up to replace Highfield and Carter? Big shoes to fill. Just curious. Heard Bridgewater had a really good recruiting year in spring of 2007.

[allsky7]

What's it going to take to prevent future ODAC teams from getting walloped in the first round of the playoffs?  This is the second straight year the ODAC standard-bearer has been ousted immediately.  I mean no disrespect to the Tigers; the accounts of the game on this board indicate the it was closer than the score illustrates. 8)

I know we've covered this before in prior posts, but the timing is right to revisit the topic, especially since it's a year later, and hopefully we're all a little bit wiser!

It sounds a lot like we (the ODAC) get pushed around on the Offensive and Defensive lines due to a difference in size.   You were at the Stagg Bowl last year, jacketlawyer, as was I, and I also saw some marked differences in team speed and depth.     

One thing that might help prevent that from happening is for the whole conference to play tougher nonconference opponetts.  In the years that Bridgewater was going deep in the playoffs, they played at least one game against a playoff team in their nonconference slate.  This will help the teams understande just what they are up against at the next level.  Playing these games also helps coaches to see just what a difference getting players that are bigger, stronger and faster can make.

I disagree.

The 2000 to 2005 Bridgewater teams that won a combined 10 playoff games were deep. The 2006 W&L and 2007 H-SC teams weren't. That simple.

For anyone other than BC to win the ODAC and be successful in the playoffs, they need to go 10-0 and get a couple home games. I say that, because the Eagles have shown they can go on the road and win;

2000: 59-42 win over #16 W&J
2003: 26-3 win over #20 CNU
2003: 13-9 win over #18 Lycoming
2005: 24-13 win over #14 Thiel

Unfortunately, W&L and H-SC had to go on the road to #11 Wilkes and #6 Wesley, respectively. They had no chance entering the postseason with two or more regular season losses. The only year BC entered the NCAA playoffs with two losses (2004), we lost in the first round at #5 Washington & Jefferson (albeit by only seven in double OT).

So yeah, IMO, the key is to go 10-0 and host. More than likely, you'll play a team or two that you should beat, you get your playoff experience in those games, then you can maybe go on the road a beat a top 20 team.

Uh oh ... I'm starting to sound like Snakehandler.

     Kid.....The BC teams you mentioned may have been deep but IMO, you were also very talented. You had talented players and more of them than other ODAC playoff teams I have seen over the years. Having seen the Stagg Bowl the last two years, the ODAC is a pretty good ways from being there. (with the exception of the BC teams) I don't see that changing any time soon. I certainly am not saying that we accept our plight and just be happy with an ODAC title but that is the reality as I see it. Hey.....ODAC basketball has found a way to establish themselves on the national stage, so why not football. GO ODAC......uh...I mean GO TIGERS!!! 

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

I know its really early to talk about but who does Bridgewater have coming up to replace Highfield and Carter? Big shoes to fill. Just curious. Heard Bridgewater had a really good recruiting year in spring of 2007.

Youth, youth, youth.

At quarterback, Patrick Smoot (SO) and Hagan Driskell (FR) will likely battle it out during the spring.

At running back, it will be by committee (like 2002 through 2006) with David Argaud (SO), Brad Jones (SO), and Darrin McKenzie (FR). Two of those guys will likely step up and carry the load. We'll be deep at fullback too, with Tyran Harris (SO), Seth Hardesty (SO), and Ryan Richmond (FR).

Also, you never know who will have a good offseason and join those mentioned above. And who knows what transfers or freshmen Clark and Co. will bring in.

Even with 34 seniors this year, we had quite a few freshmen see the field;

-McKenzie
-Richmond
-Driskell
-Tyler Beiler (WR)
-Julius Delbridge (WR)
-Pat Wilson (OL)
-Thomas Kessler (OL)
-Brandon Mitchell (DB)
-Darrin Stephenson (DB)
-TJ Monague (LB)
-Stanley Barbour (DL)

I still think our 2006 and 2007 recruiting classes could be two of the best we've had. We'll see over the next two or three seasons.

[marc]

What's it going to take to prevent future ODAC teams from getting walloped in the first round of the playoffs?  This is the second straight year the ODAC standard-bearer has been ousted immediately.  I mean no disrespect to the Tigers; the accounts of the game on this board indicate the it was closer than the score illustrates. 8)

I know we've covered this before in prior posts, but the timing is right to revisit the topic, especially since it's a year later, and hopefully we're all a little bit wiser!

It sounds a lot like we (the ODAC) get pushed around on the Offensive and Defensive lines due to a difference in size.   You were at the Stagg Bowl last year, jacketlawyer, as was I, and I also saw some marked differences in team speed and depth.     

Where do we got to get it?  And assuming we know where, why aren't we?

Very interesting question Jacketlawyer. I was absolutely shocked at the shear size of the Wesley players (you have to see it to believe it). I have no idea how they get those players to a DIII program. I spoke with one of the Wesley players who was not dressed out (limit of 50 for playoff games). He said he coach was an excellent recruiter. Must be.  His D line was as big as anything I've seen at most D-1 schools.  I guess the players that size in the ODAC recruiting area opt for a D-1 program. Of course its like Matt said earlier, HS was playing the #6 school. I cant imagine that kind of size all the way down the top 25. He would be the one to ask though. Bridgewater has seen more playoff teams than anyone else in the ODAC.

[kickerdad]

What's it going to take to prevent future ODAC teams from getting walloped in the first round of the playoffs?  This is the second straight year the ODAC standard-bearer has been ousted immediately.  I mean no disrespect to the Tigers; the accounts of the game on this board indicate the it was closer than the score illustrates. 8)

I know we've covered this before in prior posts, but the timing is right to revisit the topic, especially since it's a year later, and hopefully we're all a little bit wiser!

It sounds a lot like we (the ODAC) get pushed around on the Offensive and Defensive lines due to a difference in size.   You were at the Stagg Bowl last year, jacketlawyer, as was I, and I also saw some marked differences in team speed and depth.     

Where do we got to get it?  And assuming we know where, why aren't we?

Very interesting question Jacketlawyer. I was absolutely shocked at the shear size of the Wesley players (you have to see it to believe it). I have no idea how they get those players to a DIII program. I spoke with one of the Wesley players who was not dressed out (limit of 50 for playoff games). He said he coach was an excellent recruiter. Must be.  His D line was as big as anything I've seen at most D-1 schools.  I guess the players that size in the ODAC recruiting area opt for a D-1 program. Of course its like Matt said earlier, HS was playing the #6 school. I cant imagine that kind of size all the way down the top 25. He would be the one to ask though. Bridgewater has seen more playoff teams than anyone else in the ODAC.

I wondered the same thing about how DIII schools got those players....Last year when Averett won a share of the conference championship in the USA South, they played Mount Union and Wesley, back to back. There was no compairison between the two squads as far as size was concerned. There was one player  (LB) for Mt. that had arms the size of a tree trunk. They were huge in all positions. Wesley wasn't nearly as big, however it was like men against boys. Plus they have the speed to go along with it. When Averett played Mt. this year, I told someone that the players returned from last years Mt. team had grown a foot and gotten ten times bigger. That is not fat either. You are right - you have to see them to believe it.

[R-MC Guy]

What's it going to take to prevent future ODAC teams from getting walloped in the first round of the playoffs?  This is the second straight year the ODAC standard-bearer has been ousted immediately.  I mean no disrespect to the Tigers; the accounts of the game on this board indicate the it was closer than the score illustrates. 8)

I know we've covered this before in prior posts, but the timing is right to revisit the topic, especially since it's a year later, and hopefully we're all a little bit wiser!

It sounds a lot like we (the ODAC) get pushed around on the Offensive and Defensive lines due to a difference in size.   You were at the Stagg Bowl last year, jacketlawyer, as was I, and I also saw some marked differences in team speed and depth.     

Where do we got to get it?  And assuming we know where, why aren't we?

Very interesting question Jacketlawyer. I was absolutely shocked at the shear size of the Wesley players (you have to see it to believe it). I have no idea how they get those players to a DIII program. I spoke with one of the Wesley players who was not dressed out (limit of 50 for playoff games). He said he coach was an excellent recruiter. Must be.  His D line was as big as anything I've seen at most D-1 schools.  I guess the players that size in the ODAC recruiting area opt for a D-1 program. Of course its like Matt said earlier, HS was playing the #6 school. I cant imagine that kind of size all the way down the top 25. He would be the one to ask though. Bridgewater has seen more playoff teams than anyone else in the ODAC.

I wondered the same thing about how DIII schools got those players....Last year when Averett won a share of the conference championship in the USA South, they played Mount Union and Wesley, back to back. There was no compairison between the two squads as far as size was concerned. There was one player  (LB) for Mt. that had arms the size of a tree trunk. They were huge in all positions. Wesley wasn't nearly as big, however it was like men against boys. Plus they have the speed to go along with it. When Averett played Mt. this year, I told someone that the players returned from last years Mt. team had grown a foot and gotten ten times bigger. That is not fat either. You are right - you have to see them to believe it.

I don't have the facts to back this up, but I suspect that teams like Mt. Union are heavily fortified with DI transfers - kids who are good enough to play DI but end up deciding it was not for them. For example a freshman at a DI school figures out that there is another player a bit better than him in the same year at his position. At that point he can: 1) Stick it out and try to get better to win some PT, 2) Transfer to another DI school and sit out for a year, 3) Transfer to a top DIII school and have a chance to play for a national championship. Faced with this choice, option 3 may not seem so bad.

In addition, there may well be players who turn down the opportunity to go to a second tier DI school in the first place in favor of the opportunity to play at a school that is going to compete for the DIII championship. In basketball, it is much easier for a couple of outstanding players to take a good team to a great team. In football, it takes eight or ten of these types of players which is a much more dificult challenge.

I would love to hear what others think about this topic. Another question I have is the relative competition for outstanding DIII players. In Virginia there is a long list of schools competing for these players. Is the competition as stiff in the states where the top DIII programs are located? Another obvious question is the depth of the recruiting pool relative to the number of schools competing for the tallent in each region.

[Llamaguy]

Where do we got to get it?  And assuming we know where, why aren't we?

Here is my 2 cents. To go deep in the playoffs in consecutive years, several different ingriedients are needed.

One way is to be a nationally known power who the player will consider going to even though they are a higher than D3 kid. The ODAC doesn't get D-1 transfers, yes an occasional D-1AA (BCS) but no D1 transfers. Remember Elliot to Linfield from Utah, UWW have several kids who were offered walk on status at U. Wisconsin. In my opinion no team in the ODAC will get to Mt. Union, St. Johns status so this option is out for the ODAC.

The second ingriedient is a fertile recruiting area. VA is talented but most of the kids go to D1 Va Tech, UVA, then there is JMU,W&M,Liberty,Richmond at the BCS division. In comparison, Wisconsin has UW at D1 then all the other state schools are D3. Combine that with Ohio,Texas,PA having talented kids, and even Mt.Union is recruiting Florida now.
You have to be lucky in the ODAC to get one or two of these kids, much less enough to compete nationally.

To answer the BC 2001 run, we had 4-8 kids with D1 talent on the same team. It only happens in the ODAC when the stars align, and certainly not long term, atleast on a national scale.

RMC guy,
You nailed it! I'll even give you an example from Wesley. Robinson (DE), probably the best DE in D3 this year had a full ride to Maryland and ended up at Wesley. They have a 6'6" freshman WR who had commited to IOWA but is now at Wesley. It takes connections and a coach able to sell their little school.

[marc]

Mt Union recruiting in Florida? Transfers from 1AA teams? Wow. I kind of like the ODAC the way it is now. Regional schools recruiting the region. Ours students against your students. If the stars come together like they did for the 2003 Bridgewater team, then great. But national recruiting? I hope we dont put college football out of reach for our VA  players.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't have the facts to back this up, but I suspect that teams like Mt. Union are heavily fortified with DI transfers - kids who are good enough to play DI but end up deciding it was not for them.  For example a freshman at a DI school figures out that there is another player a bit better than him in the same year at his position.

You don't have the facts to back this up precisely because there are no facts that back this up.

RMC guy,
You nailed it! I'll even give you an example from Wesley. Robinson (DE), probably the best DE in D3 this year had a full ride to Maryland and ended up at Wesley. They have a 6'6" freshman WR who had commited to IOWA but is now at Wesley. It takes connections and a coach able to sell their little school.

I-AA Delaware State, not Maryland.

[Oil Can]

I would love to hear what others think about this topic. Another question I have is the relative competition for outstanding DIII players. In Virginia there is a long list of schools competing for these players. Is the competition as stiff in the states where the top DIII programs are located? Another obvious question is the depth of the recruiting pool relative to the number of schools competing for the tallent in each region.

Think about football in the state of Ohio....The Ohio State University, perrenial powerhouse in the Big Ten and nationally.  Cincinnati Bearcats (having a great season), Akron, Miami (OH) and Bowling Green at the D1 level.  I think Youngstown State has won multiple national titles at the 1-AA level.  Of course, MUC has owned D3 for the better part of 10-15 years, not to mention all of the unfortunate "better than most" D3 teams that have to compete each year for 2nd place in the OAC.  If you look at the Purple Raider playoff roster, a couple are from FL, one from CA (I think), but most from Ohio.  I'm sure to be missing some teams, but that is one deep pool of talent.  There must be something in the water.

I'd be curious to know the # of transfers that forego D1 for Alliance.... I'm ususally wrong, but my gut tells me that it may not be as many as one would think.  I just think MUC is a factory.  Someone joked once that their 2's and 3's could make the semis