FB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[TigerDad]

Centre wins Pool A if Centre & DePauw both win.

if Centre and DePauw both win this weekend, then MC, CC and DPU all finish at 5-1 in SCAC and are tri-champs.

One small question to the panel ... if so, how does Centre get the Pool A?

I see how Centre has the edge on DePauw by virtue of their 34-24 win in Greencastle.  DePauw beat Millsaps 29-27 also in Greencastle.  Centre lost to Millsaps 24-0 in Jackson.

My head hurts even worse now, but I understand more than I did before.   Kind of like Quantum Physics ... the particles are too small and moving too fast for me.

[Ron Boerger]

Tiebreaker 2c - if conference w/l are equal and the relative wins and losses by the contenders balance out, you go on overall record.  Millsaps get eliminated at this point, then you go back to head-to-head for the remaining teams. 

[TigerDad]

Tiebreaker 2c 

Thanks, Ron.  That makes sense now.  Not like it matters to the SA Tigers, but it's interesting anyway.  I'm guessing TU would like to spoil somebody's party just because they can.  And, certainly to maintain a decent season/SCAC record for 2009.  It's certainly been more than a while since they've had more than 3 losses in a single season. Actually, it was way back in 1993 that Trinity went 6-4.  TU had three losses in 1995, 2000, and 2003.

[Ralph Turner]

Ron is right.

Think about that selection table, and there are only 6 bids to give.

Let me give a hypothetical list of Pool C candidates for each region.  That looks tough for the South #3 to get one.

E - Springfield, Del Valley
S - UMHB, W&J, DPU/Centre
W - Bethel/St Thomas, Redlands, Coe, Willamette
N - CCIW runner-up, OAC runner-up, Wabash

[Ron Boerger]

Maybe UMHB or W&J will lose again 

Will be interesting to see how far W&J falls in the rankings this week.

[Ralph Turner]

As for Huntingdon getting a Pool B, I think that they are more solid than that.

ECFC - Norwich is leading, but went 0-3 in non-conference.
UAA -- CRWU is leading and is probably going undefeated. One bid.
ACFC -- Wesley (Salisbury is down this year.)  Give Wesley a bid.
UMAC -- Greenville won Game #5 of the Dome Day, but has a loss to Huntingdon.

[DPU3619]

See, when I look at the teams that have 1 loss, or what I think are most the likely to finish with just the one loss, here's what I get.  Ralph obviously knows better than me, but here goes... (In said hypothetical, DePauw wins the Bell game):

NORTH - Wheaton.  If IWU beats them, then maybe none?  NCC and Wheaton will both have 2 losses.
WEST - St. Thomas only.  Coe's best win is 5-3 Wartburg.  Willamette & Bethel have two losses.  If Bethel beats St. Thomas on Sat, then probably Coe is in, I'd guess.
EAST - Springfield.  Also only 9 games, with the best win being (likely) 5-4 SJF.  If Albright beats Del Val, then I think the Aggies are done. 
SOUTH - UMHB, W&J, DePauw

That's 6 right there.  Couple of thoughts here:

If Bethel beats St. Thomas to give them both 2 losses, I have to think that gives DePauw a better chance. 

The question for me is whether or not Coe is more worthy of being selected than DePauw.  OTOH, is 2 loss Otterbein in the conversation since one was to Mount?  Also, as Ralph just said, maybe it doesn't come down to worthiness.  DePauw may not even make it to the table as the 3rd candidate in the South.

[Hawks88]

I would like for AC and TU to win their games and get Millsaps into the Pool A bid, so UMHB can play Millsaps, and MissCollege can host Huntingdon in the first round.

Good luck!

That scenario is nice but why couldn't Huntingdon host MissCollege? Currently we have better region record, better OWP, better OOWP and we beat both Millsaps and LaCollege worse than they did. Does their win over regionally ranked opponent(UMHB) trump all of that?

[Ralph Turner]

I would like for AC and TU to win their games and get Millsaps into the Pool A bid, so UMHB can play Millsaps, and MissCollege can host Huntingdon in the first round.

Good luck!

That scenario is nice but why couldn't Huntingdon host MissCollege? Currently we have better region record, better OWP, better OOWP and we beat both Millsaps and LaCollege worse than they did. Does their win over regionally ranked opponent(UMHB) trump all of that?

Your thinking is good.

Let's see if Huntingdon jumps Miss College in the next regional rankings.   

[Ralph Turner]

See, when I look at the teams that have 1 loss, or what I think are most the likely to finish with just the one loss, here's what I get.  Ralph obviously knows better than me, but here goes... (In said hypothetical, DePauw wins the Bell game):

NORTH - Wheaton.  If IWU beats them, then maybe none?  NCC and Wheaton will both have 2 losses.
WEST - St. Thomas only.  Coe's best win is 5-3 Wartburg.  Willamette & Bethel have two losses.  If Bethel beats St. Thomas on Sat, then probably Coe is in, I'd guess.
EAST - Springfield.  Also only 9 games, with the best win being (likely) 5-4 SJF.  If Albright beats Del Val, then I think the Aggies are done. 
SOUTH - UMHB, W&J, DePauw

That's 6 right there.  Couple of thoughts here:

If Bethel beats St. Thomas to give them both 2 losses, I have to think that gives DePauw a better chance. 

The question for me is whether or not Coe is more worthy of being selected than DePauw.  OTOH, is 2 loss Otterbein in the conversation since one was to Mount?  Also, as Ralph just said, maybe it doesn't come down to worthiness.  DePauw may not even make it to the table as the 3rd candidate in the South.

Thanks, Wes!

[Tex]

I wasn't going to kill the positive spirit, but now that Pat has done that, I won't feel as bad.
...

It's kind of an indication of how far Trinity has fallen.

TU2698: Oddly, I don't detect any hint of you "feeling bad" to go to the negative side.  Your occasional comments seem to have taken up residence there.  As a father of a current player, I do take offense at your flip reference to the good old days when TU ran the table on lesser opponents.  Perhaps if you are blessed to live to be as old as I am, the taste of the present won't be so bitter compared to your glory days.

This year's edition of the Trinity Tigers comes to play every week ... they gave Azusa Pacific a good game, just spotted them too many points early in the game.  The Tigers played hard and showed great heart by giving a full effort for all four quarters.  Lesser men might have given up, but that's not what I saw.  I was proud of them and shook their hands and told them so on the field afterwards.

I for one am enjoying the "parity" that seems to have come to the SCAC and D3 football in our area.  Every game must be played to the full measure ... hardly any gimmees this year (or last).  Teams who were doormats a few years ago are contenders today.  No disrespect to our S.A. Tigers, but it does appear to me that the other schools have improved more than TU has declined.  Football players across the nation are bigger, faster, stronger, and better-prepared than ten years ago.  Several Trinity athletes in recent years have set school records or appear in the all-time career lists ... Blake Barmore, Dustin Allen, Bryant Wilson, Pete Licalzi, Chris Baer, Caleb Urban, Kyle Trella, and Garrett Biel to name just a few.

I am not a TU alum, but you are.  Maybe you should step back from the edge and choose to support and appreciate your younger band of brothers.  They are no less dedicated or skilled than you or your old teammates.  As academic standards at TU continue to rise, these men still compete well.  A lost game or two does not make a loser of anyone or any team.  Join us as we celebrate the victories past, present, and future.  Someday, perhaps your own son or daughter may need you to encourage them after a tough loss or two ... maybe even speak up for them when old alums pine for days gone by.  Criticism is easy and requires less thought or creativity than uplifting words.

That's my two cents ... I hope you will take them constructively.

Well said.  Lots of heart out there in the wins and the losses.  It's a tough challenge.  Get into one of the top academic schools in the country and still compete week in and week out while keeping a grip on your studies and grades.  I'm not sure how they do it.  Football is hard work, no matter if it's your passionate hobby (D3) or you're a paid player (scholarship).  

When I was in High School, my teammates and I rarely won 3 games in a season.  It's nice to keep things in perspective.

Like I've said before, I've not been around D-3 long enough to be able to comment on rises or falls, but it sure has been a lot of fun being a part these past two years.

Good post TigerDad.

[Tacttm1]

Tiger Dad:  Like Tex, I have only been around d-3 for 3 years now, so my observations are basedon a short exposure.  However, I can say that throught my past 'life' and experiences, the challenges of facing opponents with equal or greater skill teach many more life-lessons than the short-lived exhileration of running the table over less talented teams.   Sure, there is some fun in remembering when a team blew through everybody and you were the BMOC.  But, my friends, the true character building comes through efforts such as those displayed by many of our teams when they face a superior squad and show no signs of quitting or when the back and forth of an OT game makes every player dig deep to execute their assignments.

The D-3 fields (in all of our sports) belong to the players of the current day; give them the credit for daring to step into the crucible and exit stronger, harder and worth more than when they entered.

___________________

I can only imagine the emotions going through many of my fellow board members as they watch the final couple games of their son's careers.  I pray that all of these athletes and their families have grown closer as a result of these games and that the lessons learned will make them better men, fathers and friends.

[DPU3619]

But it's different for alums.  I don't want this to sound critical, but parents come and go around here.  For the most part, they're here while their kid is here, then they go.  Some stay, but most don't.  Some get mad when somebody calls out little Johnny or Timmy for not doing a good enough job, but most don't.  Some parents still stick around here, and they're the ones with thousands and thousands of posts.  But, here's the thing: those of us that are alums, particularly within the last few years, have a little bit of a disconnect, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. 

It's frustrating to see your program struggle after you've followed it for so long.  At the same time, what I hope is going to be a DePauw playoff berth is going to be awesome, because I've been waiting for it since I starting following the program as a young pup.  I've been critical of coaches, players, and certainly the administration around here over the years because they deserve it, damnit.  Do your job.  Period.  If you can't take the heat - even at this level - as renowned terrible football coach Dan Hawkins says, "go play intramurals, brother."  This is competitive football and people aren't going to like it if you don't do good enough.  There won't be columns in the newspaper and the media won't be pressuring you for soundbites, but people still care when you screw it up.

I also think an alum has the right to say so and is more likely to do so, again don't take this the wrong way, because they just don't give a hoot how your kid feels.  We all know how it feels when we lost and we got over it.  If we didn't do a good enough job we were going to hear about it.  They're young men.  Do better.  The coaches are adults.  Do better.

You went to school somewhere and you probably still care about your program.  You know how it feels.  It's a vacuum.  Once your friends and fraternity brothers graduate, the people don't really matter anymore.  It's one season.  They're all just one season.  This one stinks out loud for Trinity.  See you next year.  They're going to try to not give up 300 yards passing and commit 8 penalties a game.  They're going to try to go find another game-changer at QB, which just hasn't been there the last few years.  Then we'll try it again the year after.  And ten years down the road.  And a lot of us will still be here then.  And we'll still be pissed when our team sucks or our players do stupid stuff.  At the same time, we're really happy when they're good, too.  That's the difference.  There are proud parents regardless of the record.  The alumni aren't proud regardless of the record - I can promise you that.  I believe they've got that right, too.

[TigerDad]

Wes, thanks for your thoughtful reply.  I do see your point (and the comments of others as well).  I admit that I am more a fan of my son and his friends than of the Trinity football program.  In two weeks, my connection to TU will end and my interest will definitely wane.  Whether Trinity's new administration decides to improve their stadium, place more importance on football, or make other changes will have no effect on me.  I will be more of a message board reader than a contributor, that's for sure.

Tacttm1, we are in agreement about the relative value of blowouts vs. hard-fought games.  You put it more eloquently than I ever could have.  Nobody, especially the dogs in the hunt, will remember the walkover wins ... it's the battles in the trenches and overcoming obstacles that builds character and connects us to each other.

I've been watching my son play football for 11 years, but the only plays or games I remember were the tough ones, the unexpected ones, and the ones where players overcame an overwhelming force by skill, fortune, or both.  15-laterals, anyone?

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."  Prov 27:17

I pray health, safety and for worthwhile battles for all our athletes every week.

[Ralph Turner]

Wes, thanks for your thoughtful reply.  I do see your point (and the comments of others as well).  I admit that I am more a fan of my son and his friends than of the Trinity football program.  In two weeks, my connection to TU will end and my interest will definitely wane.  Whether Trinity's new administration decides to improve their stadium, place more importance on football, or make other changes will have no effect on me.  I will be more of a message board reader than a contributor, that's for sure.

Tacttm1, we are in agreement about the relative value of blowouts vs. hard-fought games.  You put it more eloquently than I ever could have.  Nobody, especially the dogs in the hunt, will remember the walkover wins ... it's the battles in the trenches and overcoming obstacles that builds character and connects us to each other.

I've been watching my son play football for 11 years, but the only plays or games I remember were the tough ones, the unexpected ones, and the ones where players overcame an overwhelming force by skill, fortune, or both.  15-laterals, anyone?

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."  Prov 27:17

I pray health, safety and for worthwhile battles for all our athletes every week.

Or Al Furlow stripping the ball from the arms of the McMurry defensive captain to prevent a go-ahead TD in the last minute of the game...