FB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[Ron Boerger]

I hate to see the SCAC break up.  I am going to go ahead say that Millsaps will be the power in football in that new conference.

Beware BSC!

They have been very competitive in basketball and baseball already, even without conference championships and playoffs to motivate them; I'll be very surprised if they aren't at the top of the current conference in football this season.  They had to do a reset after Joey Jones brought in a whole bunch of non-D3 types so he could land a job upstairs (in this case, South Alabama).  

[Bmo]

Just read Ron's linked article....Id say that if I heard the President of a university speak about his football team like that I would not even want to play them, much less play for them. Completely ridiculous, makes me kinda upset for the kids that dont get the chance to read that article and end up going there to play. Unfortunate really.

It seems to me the goal is a half step or so above "Club Sport".  I certainly don't have a problem with that if that's your intention and focus.  I know many people who played club sports in college and had great experiences.  I just don't know why you wouldn't just call it that instead of selling yourself as a D3 program in order to get a few more students with no intention of ever providing the resources to back it up.  You are asking people to pay really good money and even go into debt to get a college experience at these institutions so some transparency should be expected.

It's such a fine line that strikes to heart of exactly what D3 is.  Some people value the competitive aspects and intangible skills that can be learned outside of the class room on the athletic field while others see athletic programs as a distraction and a necessary evil for revenue generation.  I can make sound arguments for both thought processes, but I do value the intangibles I received by participating in a competitive league with all the former SCAC schools.

I'm curious as to how this plays out with other institutions, as it can only really happen if everyone is on board.  There's already talk of restrictions on coach salaries.  It will be an interesting conversation when coaches who have built lives around some of these schools have to be let go because they are above pay scale.

Quite possibly, I'm taking this much further than what the new league truly intends, but until there is clarification, I can only take what has been said at face value.  I'm most likely the least informed person on this board with my information only coming from printed media, so take it all with a grain of salt.

[cush]

I don't really understand those comments more so coming from hendrix since they could fit into either side, the scac leftovers or leavers do to their location. Its not like the scac was made up a a wide variety of different types of school's but they were all basically well regarded small liberals arts colleges.  I do understand the rational to leave do to geography since its makes little sense for school's in kentucky, Georgia or  alabama to travel to texas and colorado for a divsions 3 conference game. The fact is the eastern school's had enough of them to create a more compact league. I'd guess the President of Hendrix might be throwing some bones to the hostile to football crowd prevalent at some school's to get the OK to bring the sport back.

I do agree BSC will be an athletic power but same with berry. Recent scholarship school's probably have some edge compared to programs in d3 longer, not to mention those school's are in states with a lot of high school athletic talent and not much competition at the d3 level. The same will apply with centenary. I'm not sure what direction that school will go but i'll assume they get offers from both the scac and new league.  The school president has a texas past and geography might favor it  but the breakaway school's probably have more solid of a league.  The scac will be able to rebuild but getting the football auto bid will be almost impossible. I guess they could go east to get some football school's but that would probably send colorado college to d2 and also be bringing in lower profile institutions. 

[Pat Coleman]

It does come across as if football at Hendrix will be merely dormfill.

[Warren Thompson]

It does come across as if football at Hendrix will be merely dormfill.

And if that is truly the case, then it's an act born of unfortunate ignorance. As well, do Hendrix and the other defectors believe they are "eliter" than the rest of the SCAC? If so, what's the hard evidence?

Whatever, it verges on the low farcical ....

[Ron Boerger]

I wonder if the admission of UDallas was a factor.  Maybe it was just the straw that broke the camel's back (or the CAC's back).   While there are 3000 total students, only 1300 of those are undergrad.  It is the only school affiliated with a non-Protestant denomination (Catholic).   No, wait, Sewanee is associated with the Episcopalean church, that's not Protestant, is it?   It has a school of ministry (the only one in the conference?  No, Sewanee at least has one; Millsaps and Rhodes have majors in religious studies, B-SC two religion majors).    It is yet another school based in the western part of the conference.   Interestingly, and perhaps to one of Cloyd's points, US News ranks it as one of 16 western colleges in the "A+ schools for B students" category.   While US News ranks UD 15th in the western region, Forbes ranks it above both Trinity and Austin.  

UD wanted in for a while, it seems, and when they finally get in (admission which had to be approved by a majority of SCAC members), over half of the schools up and leave them behind.  The timing is interesting, perhaps coincidental, but interesting nonetheless.

[awadelewis]

No, wait, Sewanee is associated with the Episcopalean church, that's not Protestant, is it?   It has a school of ministry (the only one in the conference?

The ECUSA is Protestant but only by the barest of threads.   Although some claim that we're evolved into just being Unitarians with an odd perchant for fancy dress and organ music...

[awadelewis]

The timing is interesting, perhaps coincidental, but interesting nonetheless.

As well, do Hendrix and the other defectors believe they are "eliter" than the rest of the SCAC? If so, what's the hard evidence?

My guess is that UD coming into the league was just one of the factors that entered into the decision.   I think there has always been people amongst the supporters of the schools that came into league from the old CAC that have been uncomfortable with the Texas schools's attitudes towards athletics.  I don't put myself in that category as Sewanee has moved more towards a similar viewpoint over the past 10/15 years.  You can certainly see it in how the facilities have improved on the Mountain, if not in some of the results on the field. It's certainly a better approach to sports than the benign neglect our administration favored when I was on the Mountain in the mid-1980s. 

It's my opinion that that Dr. McCardell and Mark Webb would not agree with the comments from the Hendrix president but I've not had the chance to ask them directly.   To the "eliteness" question, some of that may be there given the personalities involved.  However, it really strikes me as being more driven by differences in opinion about program directions amongst the SCAC members and business issues with the conference becoming too large and too spread out geographically.

[Just Bill]

Just read Ron's linked article....Id say that if I heard the President of a university speak about his football team like that I would not even want to play them, much less play for them. Completely ridiculous, makes me kinda upset for the kids that dont get the chance to read that article and end up going there to play. Unfortunate really.

I have no doubt that a copy of that article will be in the recruiting files of every school that may ever recruit against Hendrix. When a student mentions they are considering Hendrix, someone will show it to them.

[Ralph Turner]

If we assume that the need to grow larger to maintain the AQ was one of the factors in the exapansion and the split, then what type of influence has that had on the school's decision to go with the CAC-East?

You need to be at 7 for the AQ. Eight is easier and most, including the late ASC commissioner Fred Jacoby (who won the NCAA's highest award for commissioner), will say that 10 is ideal for conference dynamics and stability.

Twelve allows division play.

RHIT and DPU were brought into the conference for AQ reasons.  Where else was the SCAC to find "like minded" institutions in the late 1990's when the AQ movement began in D-III?

The AQ is driving all of this.  A school either admits that they want access to a national championship or they focus on an athletic program that is glorified "intramurals".

[HelloGoodbye]

The AQ is driving all of this.  A school either admits that they want access to a national championship or they focus on an athletic program that is glorified "intramurals".

Why can't they do both? (The rest of this is only indirectly related to the quote)

Isn't the point of D3 athletics, to demonstrate the meaning of STUDENT-athlete? What is wrong with accepting students who don't fit the schools scholastic, economic, and (bbking might argue ethnic) portfolio. Would these presidents not agree that the mission of D3 athletics to mold men and women of BALANCE? Where is the balance within these institutions? Are they concerned that they're not able to educate students with average high school scores? I could write an entire blog on reasons students can perform much higher than their high school scores suggest, if given the right guidance and motivation.

What better way could and institution demonstrate superiority, then to find young men who have potential, and help them tap that potential? Wouldn't taking an average (academic) high school student athlete, and turning him into an all-conference... even an all-conference academic team player,  be the true definition of what D3 athletics is all about? If this is purely about academics, these institutions are in need of a "cup check" to see if there's anything still there.

From a football standpoint, this might have been a great move. If these schools weren't serious about football and athletics, it'd be Trinity's conference for another decade. The SCAC was boring until Millsaps flipped it on its' head. Any true football fan loved that... a REAL rivalry that meant something... mid-season games with playoff feel... not one team stomping the rest of the conference into the mud.

From a geographic stand-point, the conference has always been a mess. It would've been nice if the ASC and SCAC could've "traded" a few schools. CC was the beginning of the end.

[etbu27]

HelloGoodbye....nice first post sir. I couldnt agree more. Very well said. Id give you karma but im not cool enough yet.

[Ralph Turner]

The AQ is driving all of this.  A school either admits that they want access to a national championship or they focus on an athletic program that is glorified "intramurals".

Why can't they do both? (The rest of this is only indirectly related to the quote)

Isn't the point of D3 athletics, to demonstrate the meaning of STUDENT-athlete? What is wrong with accepting students who don't fit the schools scholastic, economic, and (bbking might argue ethnic) portfolio. Would these presidents not agree that the mission of D3 athletics to mold men and women of BALANCE? Where is the balance within these institutions? Are they concerned that they're not able to educate students with average high school scores? I could write an entire blog on reasons students can perform much higher than their high school scores suggest, if given the right guidance and motivation.

What better way could and institution demonstrate superiority, then to find young men who have potential, and help them tap that potential? Wouldn't taking an average (academic) high school student athlete, and turning him into an all-conference... even an all-conference academic team player,  be the true definition of what D3 athletics is all about? If this is purely about academics, these institutions are in need of a "cup check" to see if there's anything still there.

From a football standpoint, this might have been a great move. If these schools weren't serious about football and athletics, it'd be Trinity's conference for another decade. The SCAC was boring until Millsaps flipped it on its' head. Any true football fan loved that... a REAL rivalry that meant something... mid-season games with playoff feel... not one team stomping the rest of the conference into the mud.

From a geographic stand-point, the conference has always been a mess. It would've been nice if the ASC and SCAC could've "traded" a few schools. CC was the beginning of the end.

I agree.  This is a great post.  +1!  

Can you imagine a former D-1 coach going to Hendrix when they start the program?  If they do go with that culture shift on the campus, then it will change the school and the football program will likely be successful.  That was what it took to break the Trinity monopoly.

Look how Mary Hardin-Baylor forever broke the mindset, right or wrong, of being a women's college!  They hired Coach Fred!

We have seen schools drop football because of the culture issue, i.e., Swarthmore, about 2000.

As for the shifts from the ASC to the SCAC, you have almost tapped out the ASC of potential candidates. First-year provisional Centenary aside, IMHO, the next most "SCAC-acceptable" school in the current ASC is McMurry, but we have charted a different course.

As it was, the SCAC was too big by half.  Schools for whom football was not part of their mission and vision are now faced with the economic reality that football puts men into dorm rooms, and their bottom lines need more enrollment.

[hsusid]

First-year provisional Centenary aside, IMHO, the next most "SCAC-acceptable" school in the current ASC is McMurry, but we have charted a different course.

Ralph you know I respect your opinion, so this one I have to hear. What in the profile makes McMurry the next most "SCAC-acceptable" school? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Ralph Turner]

First-year provisional Centenary aside, IMHO, the next most "SCAC-acceptable" school in the current ASC is McMurry, but we have charted a different course.

Ralph you know I respect your opinion, so this one I have to hear. What in the profile makes McMurry the next most "SCAC-acceptable" school? Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks, hsusid.

1) Half of being "SCAC-acceptable" is a consideration that a school might accept a switch in conferences.  It is just my opinion that HSU and UMHB are very happy in the ASC.  Wouldn't that be a real change in the nature of D-III in this part of the country, for those 2 to move to the SCAC?  As I understand Dr Bawcom, UMHB is very happy where they are.  But I am not speculating on those two moving to the SCAC.

2) Is scheduling routine games on Sunday a deal-breaker? Possibly at TLU, CTX or Schreiner?  Maybe a McMurry.  More likely at HSU, HPU, ETBU, UMHB and LeTU?

3) Private school?  That eliminates UT-D, UT-Tyler and SRSU.

4) Desirability of Football? Maybe.  Does that eliminate non-football schools like CTX, Schreiner, Ozarks and LeTU?

5) Denominational ties?  The prominent Southwestern president, who guided them into the SCAC, is a McMurry alum.  There is much denominational crossover between the 2 schools.

6) Historical ties?  In football, I think that McMurry all-time opponents #3 and #4 are AC and Trinity, behind #1 SRSU and #2 HPU.

There are 6 issues that might be considered in that evaluation.

I can definitely see Centenary in the new revised SCAC by the end of the decade.

What I anticipate would be a coordinated move between the SCAC and the ASC to strengthen D-III in this part of the country.