FB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

Ron Boerger · September 23, 2005, 10:55:28 AM

Thanks, gil68. Definitely the right call, and I freely admit to being in the wrong in questioning the decision. Flying out of Memphis changes the whole equation.

Li'l Giant · September 23, 2005, 11:07:54 AM

So what is the tiebreaker should Depauw and Trinity end up tied without having played?

Li'l Giant · September 23, 2005, 11:21:07 AM

Actually, I found some tiebreaker material, which is below, on the SCAC website. It doesn't seem to address this exact situation, but it talks about fewest losses. Hmm....

I. Conference Championship and Regular-Season Contest Regulations
1. The conference champion in football shall be determined by a single round-robin. The team with the best winning percentage against conference teams will be declared the conference champion. The conference champion receives an automatic bid to the NCAA championship.
2. In the case of two or more teams tying for the conference championship, each team will be declared a co-champion and receive a trophy. To determine the representative to NCAA postseason competition and the recipient of the conference's automatic bid, the following criteria will be used as a tie-breaker:
A. Two teams – head-to-head result from conference game played.
B. Three teams – Using the following point system:
• Each team will be awarded two points for each victory against other conference co-champions.
• Each team is awarded one point for each victory over other conference teams not sharing the championship.
• In the event that both parts of Section B are applied and two teams are still tied, the formula will revert back to Section A.
C. If Sections A and B cannot break the tie and there are still three teams tied, then the team or teams with the fewest losses will be declared as the recipient of the conference's automatic bid to the NCAAs. If two teams have the equal number of losses, Section A is applied.
D. If there are still three teams tied with the same number of losses, then the percentage of each team's opponents' total overall record will be used. The team whose opponents have the higher win/loss percentage will receive the conference's automatic bid to the NCAAs. If two teams remain throughout any of these tie-breaking procedures, Section A is applied.

Ron Boerger · September 23, 2005, 11:34:53 AM

Here's the rub, IF the game is NOT made up:

The team with the best winning percentage against conference teams will be declared the conference champion

If DU/TU end up tied and undefeated, nothing in this paragraph addresses the situation; A. does not apply because they will not have played. B/C/D talk about >2 teams and do not apply.

If multiple teams have one loss, Centre/Millsaps/RHIT would have a leg up because they would play one more game. Let's pretend that, say, Millsaps and DU or TU both end up at the top of the standings with one loss in conference play. Normally the winner of the conference would be the winner of the head-to-head matchup between the two. If DU-TU is not made up, Millsaps would declared be the winner due to their better winning percentage (5-1 vs. 4-1) ... even though DU-TU would have defeated Millsaps in head to head play and both teams had but one loss.

I have an inquiry in to the SCAC office and hope to have something to report in next week's ATR.

wuapefkcud · September 23, 2005, 12:49:42 PM

Quote from: gil68 on September 23, 2005, 10:49:01 AM
I'm sure it was getting to a time when a decision had to be made and one was made. I am disappointed that DPU possibly will not be playing Trinity.

Here are the travel plans I found on DePauw's Football page:

http://www.depauw.edu/ath/football/2005/schedule.asp#travel

Trinity September 23-25: The Tigers depart Indianapolis International Airport at 11:15 a.m. on Friday aboard Northwest #1875 and arrive in San Antonio at 3:21 p.m. aboard Northwest #1094 from Memphis. The team leaves San Antonio on Sunday at 7:45 a.m. and arrive in Indianapolis at 2:35 p.m. aboard Northwest #494 from Memphis. Lodging on Friday and Saturday evenings is at the Holiday Inn and Suites; 3855 IH 35 N. (210) 226-4361.

according to that link the site says Minnesota... so no they wouldnt be going through Memphis on the way home.

September 23-25: The Tigers depart Indianapolis International Airport at 11:15 a.m. on Friday aboard Northwest #1875 and arrive in San Antonio at 3:21 p.m. aboard Northwest #1094 from Memphis. The team leaves San Antonio on Sunday at 7:45 a.m. and arrive in Indianapolis at 2:35 p.m. aboard Northwest #494 from Minneapolis. Lodging on Friday and Saturday evenings is at the Holiday Inn and Suites; 3855 IH 35 N. (210) 226-4361.

Why did you feel the need to copy the website and then change the most important part of the text???

DePauw could have flown in to San Antonio today unharmed, and returned through Minneapolis without any problems. If forecasts are correct, San Antonio may not get any rain this weekend.

Li'l Giant · September 23, 2005, 01:06:13 PM

There's an article on ESPN.com about how Tennessee's AD was prepared to take a forfeit in their game against LSU if the SEC wouldn't postpone it. I wonder if Depauw was willing to do the same. Not that they should have. I'm just curious.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2170163

Pat Coleman · September 23, 2005, 01:14:14 PM

The NCAA doesn't recognize forfeits for failure to appear for a game. It is a no-contest.

gil68 · September 23, 2005, 01:39:56 PM

What would I possibly have to gain by changing the information that I cut and pasted? I have no way to prove it because the info is no longer on the site

Pat Coleman · September 23, 2005, 02:12:05 PM

This is what the cached version of the page from Google says:

September 23-25: The Tigers depart Indianapolis International Airport at 11:15 a.m. on Friday aboard Northwest #1875 and arrive in San Antonio at 3:21 p.m. aboard Northwest #1094 from Memphis. The team leaves San Antonio on Sunday at 7:45 a.m. and arrive in Indianapolis at 2:35 p.m. aboard Northwest #494 from Memphis. Lodging on Friday and Saturday evenings is at the Holiday Inn and Suites; 3855 IH 35 N. (210) 226-4361.

"This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.depauw.edu/ath/football/2005/schedule.asp as retrieved on Sep 22, 2005 07:54:58 GMT."

(I believe that's 03:54:58 EDT.)

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that supports gil68's version.

gil68 · September 23, 2005, 02:15:38 PM

Thank you for the back up Pat!

Pat Coleman · September 23, 2005, 02:34:32 PM

No problem.

And to be honest, does it particularly matter which Northwest hub they go through?

willystyle · September 23, 2005, 02:39:24 PM

Well, yes, because Memphis might well be affected by Rita come Sunday, whereas Minneapolis will not.

Coincidentally, I'm leaving in a few minutes for the airport. Destination Memphis. Hotty totty, etc.

Pat Coleman · September 23, 2005, 02:59:11 PM

And at the point the decision had to be made? Wasn't Texas in the picture?

Call me crazy, but if I'm an administrator I am not sending a 60-person traveling party potentially into harm's way for a football game. Just doesn't make sense. It's one thing if they're driving and can turn around if conditions warrant, but when you're going by air, you're committed.

wuapefkcud · September 23, 2005, 03:16:01 PM

Quote from: gil68 on September 23, 2005, 01:39:56 PM
What would I possibly have to gain by changing the information that I cut and pasted? I have no way to prove it because the info is no longer on the site

Sorry, I just figured that their website would know what it was supposed to be.

wally_wabash · September 23, 2005, 03:21:18 PM

I wonder what other options were explored here...moving the game to a neutral, weather-friendly site? Moving the game to Greendingle? It seems to me that it should be a priority to make sure the game between the conference's two best teams be played some how, some way. I don't at all fault Depauw for not playing in SA on Saturday, but I think it stinks that the game won't be played.

I would love to see Depauw and Wabash possibly meet in the playoffs...I know, a lot of things would have to happen for that to occur, but step one is getting both teams in the playoffs. I think this is probably the best chance for that to happen since Depauw fled the ICAC. Of course, I also want Depauw to earn their way in...which means they'd have to beat Trinity.

Now, if I'm reading the tiebreak rules properly, it doesn't look like the SCAC has a method of determining a playoff representative when two teams are tied and there is no head-to-head result. But there is a stipulation that allows for them to use the overall records to eliminate a team from a three or more way tie. Doesn't it make the most sense here to just apply section C to the two-way tie?