FB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[Toby Taff]

What happened?

As to what happened - look at the relative sizes of the two teams.  Trinity could not establish a running game, which meant 60+ passes of which Blake completed 35 with only one interception for over 450 yards.

to be precise trinity had -45 yards on 24 carries.  Blake had all day at times to throw because the refs were not calling holding either way.  What's the old saying, you can call holding on every play, but they only saw fit to call holding once.  They also missed a very obvious too many men on the field call against UMHB on a Trinity punt.  One of the MHB players was 5 yards on the field trying to get off when the ball was snapped.

[roocru]

To the Trinity fans and team,

Congratulations on a "miraculous" season.  I spoke to several Trinity fans after the game and at the BBQ place.  I know all of you were sorry for your season to end.  Just remember that only one of the 32 teams in the playoffs will not have that same feeling when the playoffs are over.

I was very impressed with the "never say die" attitude of your players.  I saw you play at AC the week before and I was a little concerned with your vertical passing attack but did not know how your QB would stand up to the relentless pressure of the UMHB defense.  I have the highest respect for Barmore after today's game!!    With all that pressure he stood tall in the pocket , never got rattled and through some very tough passes for 454 yards.  I disagree with mhb8904 in that I believe your offensive line did a fine job until they wore down from all the substituting of the front four that UMHB did.  If neither side gets called for holding, there is no beef.   

I was also very impressed with #7, Riley Curry, as a receiver.  He ran great routes and was definitely a "go to" guy.

Tigerdad, it was nice meeting you and the other Trinity fans today.  You were all classy in defeat.

Once again congratulations because it is only from playing athletes like yours that UMHB will get better!

[Toby Taff]

I disagree with mhb8904 in that I believe your offensive line did a fine job until they wore down from all the substituting of the front four that UMHB did.  If neither side gets called for holding, there is no beef.   

You don't disagree with me.  It was called pretty straight up.  They weren't calling it either way.  I'm ok with that.  I just think if the flags would have come out, he would have felt the pressure earlier.  As it was, he impressed me.  He took a beating today and kept coming back.

Oh, and sorry I didn't say hi.  I wasn't too far from you and CruAlum39.  I was going to go to schoepfs afterward, but my middle daughter got sick @ grandmas so we had to get back home.

[roocru]

I disagree with mhb8904 in that I believe your offensive line did a fine job until they wore down from all the substituting of the front four that UMHB did.  If neither side gets called for holding, there is no beef.   

You don't disagree with me.  It was called pretty straight up.  They weren't calling it either way.  I'm ok with that.  I just think if the flags would have come out, he would have felt the pressure earlier.  As it was, he impressed me.  He took a beating today and kept coming back.

Oh, and sorry I didn't say hi.  I wasn't too far from you and CruAlum39.  I was going to go to schoepfs afterward, but my middle daughter got sick @ grandmas so we had to get back home.

No problem, I am just glad my kids are old enough to take care of themselves

[Carl Menist]

What happened?

The UHMB audio was the best bet today.  One of these days they are going to upgrade that HS stadium to get it out of the dark ages, I'm surprised that the guys were able to get any kind of video out of there today.

As to what happened - look at the relative sizes of the two teams.  Trinity could not establish a running game, which meant 60+ passes of which Blake completed 35 with only one interception for over 450 yards.  Against UMHB's speedy defense that is pretty damn good.  But ... UMHB was able to run almost at will, the one INT really hurt, and there were some critical passes that just went off the fingertips.  UMHB only turned the ball over once and with their ball-control offense if they don't turn the ball over they are virtually impossible to stop. 

There's a reason they're ranked #5.  The UW-W loss was, quite frankly, a fluke, and I say that without any disrepect to Whitewater.  I think they turned the ball over like six times and that made them drag out the passing game.  Welch is a wonderful option QB but not much of a passer and the result was what you saw.   

Hard as it is to believe, Trinity's 29-point margin was closer than anyone in the ASC played UMHB all year.  The Cru beat Hardin-Simmons by 33 in Abilene and Mississippi College by 39 in Clinton.  They REALLY are that good. 

Thanks for the update Ron and for other people that added their perspective.

Sorry things didn't go better for Trinity and the SCAC--- sounds like they played hard and represented the league positively.

Thanks to Depauw for sending a message regarding the level of play in the SCAC to the NCAA and anybody taking note a couple of weeks ago up the road a Wabash.

I see allot of good things going on in the league, it is getting better. I think and the stage should be being set for an even better, more competitive season next year.

Only downside is seeing so many seniors across the league finish up their careers. We will miss them and their shoes will be hard to fill.

In the case of Millsaps, not only the seniors, but their families that made being part of the team and the fan base very special. We will miss them greatly. --- Sure the same can be said at the other schools as well.

Have a great Thanksgiving --- lots to be thankful for!!

[evacuee]

For those ready to move on, I'll lead the way.

Next season is going to depend heavily upon Bryant Wilson.  If he has any skills at all, Trinity isn't losing any receivers and what's more, those guys are very good.  That said, as was demonstrated yesterday, effective passing can get you yards but not necessarily wins.  Defense for TU isn't the same situation.  Nine defenisive starters, guys who have played for several years and made huge plays, are gone.  Next season will also depend heavily on whether or not Trinity has been stockpiling talent behind a what has been a very, very fierce defensive group the last three years. 

As far as difference makers returning, of course Juan Joseph has to be at the top of the list.  The Majors also have a really skilled defensive line although I admit I don't know which of those guys will still be around next fall. 

DePauw had a very good year and ended with some serious momentum.  Their QB returns and I don't think Marks's graduation will hit them very hard as they didn't rely on him excessively this year.  Hopefully they can keep their head coach.  I can't believe how good they've been with all the turnover. 

Austin College is vastly improved and you never know what Centre is going to be like.  Probably good for an upset at some point but I don't see them being able to seriously challenge for the top tier.  I was very disappointed at how Rhodes finished, but maybe they can put a whole season together.  It seemed like they survived on team efforts rather than any difference makers. 

In truth, my take is based on in depth knowledge of Trinity and the trends of the conference over the last decade, but it's not really informed. 

In my opinion, Millsaps looks once again like the team to beat.  Given that DPU and Millsaps have to go to San Antonio, that makes the race quite interesting once again. 

[Tex]

I"m going to ask a question, very innocent, but I'm sure someone from somewhere is going to jump my case a bit. 

Is there a disparity in terms of competition between the ASC and the SCAC?  Where I'm going with this, is the level of talent in the ASC or at UMHB itself, related to the level of admission standards?

I think there is perception that the SCAC schools are a bit more selective in who they let in.  Is this true? 

I think it was the coach at Texas Lutheran that was telling me that UMHB has about 100+ new faces show up each August for football.  They apparently bring in huge numbers of freshman each year and hand pick the best.  I have no way of knowing if this is true, but I don't see any reason why Coach Parker would tell me anything that wasn't accurate.  He seems like a real stand up guy. 

So, all that being said, if (and that's a huge IF) if the SCAC has higher admission standards, will any SCAC team ever be able to compete toe to toe with the likes of what appears to be a very dominant UMHB team or other future ASC power? 

[Ralph Turner]

I think that the players that UMHB brings in are those who want to go to a winner.

Trinity has seen significant erosion in its recruiting base, but I also think that this is a demographic shift of football players going to UMHB, and they have 150-200 players in the program.

St John's MN has a similar situation, and may have a stronger academic reputation than UMHB, if you go with the US News & World Report rankings.

St John's MN is #75 in National Liberal Arts Colleges (#59 Southwestern, #71 Hendrix, #75 Austin College, #75 BSC, #87 Millsaps).

I would rank the ASC-SCAC this way:

--UMHB
--Trinity
--HSU-Miss Coll- Millsaps
--DPU
--ETBU/LaColl/SRSU
--Centre/Rhodes
--Texas Lutheran/McMurry/HPU/AC/BSC
--Colorado College/ Sewanee

[DPU3619]

And I'll do my best to answer them.

Is there a disparity in terms of competition between the ASC and the SCAC?  Where I'm going with this, is the level of talent in the ASC or at UMHB itself, related to the level of admission standards?

I'd say probably some.  Although I don't think that's an issue for teams in the north of this conference (Rhodes, Centre, DePauw).  They aren't recruiting against ASC teams.  Heck, they really aren't even recruiting the same kind of athletes to play the same kind of football.  It probably is a problem for TU and Millsaps more than anyone else.  They are in direct recruiting competition with ASC schools.  Now, if you want to make the argument that recruiting in Texas gives you a distinct advantage, that's a different animal entirely.

So, all that being said, if (and that's a huge IF) if the SCAC has higher admission standards, will any SCAC team ever be able to compete toe to toe with the likes of what appears to be a very dominant UMHB team or other future ASC power? 

You know, Tex, the thing is, even as good as UMHB has been, the ASC is down compared to most years.  Hardin-Simmons goes to the dance almost every year, too.  They played a murderous schedule.  On top of that schedule, they suddenly decided against playing pass defense.  They're usually good for 9-1 or 8-2, depending on the outcome of the UMHB game.  They've played some tougher teams in the past two or three years and have seen a couple more 8-2 campaigns.

Here's my thoughts on it.  Can anybody in our conference play with the best team in the ASC year in and year out?  Nope.  Saturday proved that fact.  I don't think anybody ever debated that this season.  We haven't had anybody close to Mary Hardin-Baylor at any point.

The Trinity from early in this decade could play with anybody, but they aren't as good as they were then.  Now, past that, how do the rest of the conference matchups pan out?  Can HSU actually defend Millsaps?  How would DPU play against Mississippi?  Rhodes and ETBU?  Centre and LC?  An interesting thought, if nothing else.

[Toby Taff]

As a UMHB homer I'll say that if you had asked this question when I started school in the late 80's if you had a pulse, a diploma or GED, and a FAFSA you were in.  I think the SAT minimum when I started was 750.  That has changed dramatically through the tenure of Dr. Bawcom.  Is UMHB Ivy League caliber, no, but you can get a fine education and I have many friends that have gone on to Masters and Doctoral work after graduating.  Keep in mind that UMHB has only been fully coed since the early 70's and for many years was more of a commuter school that many GI's used to continue their education.  In that situation, more "flexible" standards for admission were important.  As the school has grown into more of a what I'd consider a true university, the academic level seems to have gone up across the board. 

As to the big influx of players every year, there are a few things that should be considered... Belton is centrally located...1 hr to Austin (big +) and Waco, 2 hrs to DFW, 3 hrs to Houston & Abilene, about 4 to Corpus (the 1 hr to Austin is the biggie for all the others as well). There is some really good football played in UMHB's backyard.  Consider Thrasher and Daniels are both local boys, Josh Welch graduated 30 minutes away, Jarrell Freeman is from 45 miles up the road... the list can continue from past teams to include towns other small local towns in the area.  Campus is beautiful.  And most importantly, they now have a tradition of winning, and people like to go to a winner, especially if they can keep a proximity to home.

[frank_ezelle]

A couple of quick points.  I think I might argue that Millsaps should be 2nd on Ralph's list but I understand why he has Trinity at the second spot.  I know that with Millsaps the verdict is still out on whether they have simply had two good years or is this the start of something bigger.

And the second point gets to something Wes said.  Coach DuBose says he only has two goals each year--win the SCAC and then win the national championship.  With just one full year of recruiting and only two years as head coach, he should not be close to that second goal and he isn't at the moment.  So while Wes is correct about no SCAC team matching up with UMHB at the moment, there is the possibility that Millsaps might reach that level in the near future. 

If that's to happen, it will be because DuBose is able to recruit the higher level recruits, the guys who could walk on at a D1 school and maybe have a chance of playing, or the guys transferring from a D1 school to a place where they can start and win championships.  That's a big if and some may even call it a longshot, but I have no trouble seeing it happen if DuBose chooses to stay at Millsaps and build a program.

[Ron Boerger]

If one wants to answer the "admissions standards" question, USN&WR is a logical starting point:

St John's (MN):  3.6 avg HS GPA, 89% from top half of HS class, 1075-1325 SAT/23-27 ACT *

DePauw (IN):  3.6 avg HS GPA, 99% from top half of HS class, 1130-1320 SAT/25-29 ACT
Millsaps (MS):  3.5 avg HS GPA, 90% from top half of HS class, 1040-1300 SAT/23-29 ACT
Trinity (TX):  3.5 avg HS GPA, 97% from top half of HS class, 1190-1370 SAT/26-31 ACT

Hardin-Simmons:  3.6 avg HS GPA, 77% from top half of HS class, 890-1130 SAT/19-24 ACT
Mississippi College:  3.4 avg HS GPA, 84% from top half of HS class, 1005-1225 SAT/20-26 ACT
Texas Lutheran:  3.5 avg HS GPA, 84% from top half of HS class, 900-1150 SAT/19-24 ACT
UMHB:  ? avg HS GPA, 79% from top half of HS class, 950-1160 SAT/20-25 SAT

But there's nobody asking Jeopardy questions on the football field.  Fredenburg is a helluva coach and brings in players that can be successful in the program there.   It could be argued that he has a larger pool to choose from than the SCAC schools do but he's working with similar academic profiles compared to peer ASC schools - and kicking the butts of everyone in both conferences. 

* - all SAT/ACT scores are 25-75th percentile

[oldmoose]

Only downside is seeing so many seniors across the league finish up their careers.

"Seniors?"  What the hell are "seniors?!!!" 

[Tex]

But there's nobody asking Jeopardy questions on the football field. 

That's funny as hell.

[Tex]

Another factor might be the cost of a year's education at various schools?

Trinity is about $35k a year.
Texas Lutheran is about $25k a year. 

Let's say both schools offer a $10K academic scholarship.  Mom and Dad might really have Jr take a close look at the school that saves them $10k a year. 

What's the average cost for a year at UMHB or Hardin-Simmons?