FB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[Major Rev]

With both Wisconsin-Eau Claire and Capital losing today, looks like Millsaps should be a good bet to crack the Top 10.

While the Majors appreciate the confidence of you folks, wabashcpa, they'll need to be playing better than they did today before that trip to Trinity and particularly before anyone starts to talk playoffs!  Nov. 1 should tell the tale!

TigerDad, I hope your son's injury is not serious.

Wes, is there any video that can help you in your cause related to clock operation?

And is there any officiating evaluation done by the SCAC (or ASC, etc.)?

[frank_ezelle]

Let me start off by also saying that I hope the injury to Chris Baer isn't serious.  I'm sure someone will give us an update when more is known.

-----------Now on to my post on the Millsaps-Sewanee game.

Millsaps has reached a point where continuing to win will eventually get them into the top 10.  If Millsaps was currently ranked 20th and needed to catch the attention of the voters, then maybe Saturday's game would have ended a little different.

Millsaps was up 38-3 after 3 quarters.  In the 4th quarter Sewanee had touchdown drives of 51 and 76 yards on their last two possessions.  Those 127 yards gave Sewanee 237 total yards of offense for the game so it can make the final total a little deceptive (Sewnaee had 19 more yards in the 4th on another drive).  Millsaps had a fairly mild 344 yards of total offense for the game, but only had 3 yards of offense in the 4th quarter.  All in all, the final score and the final stats don't give as accurate a picture as the score and stats at the end of 3 quarters. 

Major Rev indicated that Millsaps didn't play so great yesterday and at first I thought somewhat the same thing.  He and I and other fans might have gotten a little spoiled and we expect every offensive drive to be a 2 minute TD drive and we expect a 3 and out from the defense every time.  If a person had left the game after 3 quarters they would have left a 38-3 game where one team had 341 yards of offense and had allow their opponent about 100 yards.  And while Sewanee is now 1-4 in the SCAC, their previous 3 losses were respectable at DePauw (27-20), home against Centre (28-16), and at Austin (33-22).  All in all, it was a very solid win for Millsaps.

I did have one thought about the Millsaps game and maybe some of you can answer this question.  I was told a couple of years ago that the SCAC requires you to send a tape/DVD of your last game to your upcoming SCAC opponent.  If that's the case, then Trinity will get the copy of yesterday's game since Millsaps has a bye next week.  If Millsaps looked a little more workman-like in yesterday's game and somewhat lacking in flair, maybe that's the reason.

[D3_DPUFan]

Say you play out that game with correct clock operation 100 times, does Trinity win every single time?  If there's even a shadow of a doubt that DePauw wins at least 1 time, then this was a horrible injustice.

Well said, Wes....the officials were just flat incompetent...pathetic. Beyond the clock fiasco there were numerous blown calls, or no call that were right in front of them...and on the bothched onside kick evidence they had lost total control of the game...officials are going to miss calls and get some things wrong from time to  time...they are human...but these guys simply had no business officiating a D III football game, period.

[TigerDad]

I believe a committee should be formed to investigate the situation ... perhaps the game films could be subpoenaed and quarantined until an independent investigator can be assigned.  Perhaps it is a conspiracy.  Ah, I know ... there was MORE THAN ONE TIMEKEEPER ... somebody look in the library.

May I remind everyone that the hosting school has little control or influence on the choice of officials, nor over their performance or decisions during the game.  If some folks think Trinity received undue favor and that it affected the results of the DPU-TU game, they are entitled to express their opinion, but I don't agree.  I did notice a number of bad and no calls going against Trinity (onside kick anyone?), but that may be because I was sitting on the west side of the stadium.  Guess it depends upon one's team of choice and point of view.  Hmm ... imagine that in a discussion about a sporting event!

Bottom line: Trinity won and continues their quest for the SCAC title ... DePauw lost and will not.  I believe Trinity will go to Sewanee next week to TCB while the Majors rest up ... still should set up "The Game" on November 1st.  Should be a good one and hope everyone interested can make it to San Antonio for the rematch.

Wow, y'all.  Hope everybody feels better this morning after a good night's sleep.

Thanks for your concern, frank.  I believe Chris's injury was actually an aggravation of a bruise or hit he received earlier in the week or perhaps even in a previous game.  He said it was already sore before the game.  I am thankful for a team doctor, trainer, and coaches who would protect him from further injury, even in an important game.  Turns out Trinity's offense managed well without him this week.  We won't know the details until further tests are run, but I don't think it's serious.  I doubt that the exact nature of his condition will be revealed on the message board (for obvious reasons), but I expect he will play again soon.

Again, thanks for asking ...

[Tex]

I'm glad to hear Chris hasn't got something severe.  Having both Chris and Al healthy are key to long term success. 

I'm sort of laughing at this entire clock mess.  I thought the officials overall were pretty crappy yesterday.  But, as a newbie to D-3 football, I've experience a lot more bad officiating than good. 

The on-side kick that wasn't was a great example.  I'm still not sure what they came up with or why. 

[historymajor]

I'm with you guys about the 'on-side' mess.  Wow, first they said DPU got it and setup to play, then after further review they reversed the call and gave iit to TU, then after debating things with the DPU coaching staff, a "do-over" was considered and after five minutes of debate, a penalty on TU surfaced (w/penalty yardage) forcing TU to re-kick deep.  I don't think TU video of the webcast will show clock problems,,, but we'll see when it's downloaded.  Maybe the endzone camera from the scissor-lift?

[DPU3619]

I believe a committee should be formed to investigate the situation ... perhaps the game films could be subpoenaed and quarantined until an independent investigator can be assigned.  Perhaps it is a conspiracy.  Ah, I know ... there was MORE THAN ONE TIMEKEEPER ... somebody look in the library.

Well, first, I'd love to.  But, that information is nowhere to be found in the internets.  You may be in closer proximity to this magical library than the rest of us.

May I remind everyone that the hosting school has little control or influence on the choice of officials, nor over their performance or decisions during the game. 

I've never alleged any kind of conspiracy.  Please, Mr. Baer, I encourage to quote me on accusing such of a thing.  I never said anyone with Trinity is colluding with officials to gain some sort of unfair advantage.  There are a lot of DePauw fans AND others close to the program who believe that without a shadow of a doubt.  It's awful hard to not make that conclusion with all the crap that's happened to DePauw on that field, but I choose to not believe that.

What I do believe is that there are a LOT of familiar faces on that crew every single time we make the trip to Trinity.  I also believe that Bob King isn't turning a blind eye to that and just not paying attention.  That would be reckless.  I'd love to look that up as well, but the officials aren't listed on Trinity's box scores for one reason or another.  That's not a cheap shot at my good friend Justin Parker, but they're just not there.  Maybe you can get that information for me when you find the timekeeper(s) in your library.

I don't believe those familiar faces are in anybody's pocket.  Not the pocket of Dwayne Hanberry, John Brazil, Mr. King, Coach Mohr, Chris Baer's dad, historymajor, or the Easter Bunny for that matter.  I say again, Mr. Baer, for EXTREME clarity, that I have not alleged conspiracy.  Not yesterday, not in 2006, not in 2002 (which featured one of my favorite all-time officiating gaffes regarding a measurement..I digress), not ever.  I have never said that Trinity University is working in hand with the officials they hire to give themselves some nature of an unfair advantage.  Trinity probably had no control over whatever jerkoff decided to run the clock after incomplete passes yesterday.  But, it sure did work in their favor late in the game when they were up by two scores. 

What I am alleging is that it ain't that hard to A) find a different crew for every game and B) find somebody with an IQ higher than 9 to understand the rules of the game and implement them properly to crew of assistants (clock operators, scoreboard operators, chain gang, etc) provided by Trinity University or any other school in this nation.  If freaking Blackburn and Hiram can figure out how to run a clock right, then the team who has won 15 of 16 conference championships or whatever it is ought to be able to, as well.  This isn't rocket science, fella.  It's football.

[TXMike]

May I remind everyone that the hosting school has little control or influence on the choice of officials, nor over their performance or decisions during the game. 

Sir:
I will assume you are not really aware of how it is done at Trinity.  Your statement re the hosting school having no choice or influence over the officials is absolutely incorrect when it comes to Trinity (or most any school in the SCAC for that matter)  I am intimately familiar with the Trinity /San Antonio situation and your statement is incorrect.  Does not make Trinity the great Satan but it is an unhealthy situation, and one that is NOT unique to Trinity. Check out the box scores from past Trinity games and see who is working them.  You are going to see essentially the same folks game after game.  That being said, look at the DePauw Univ box scores and you will see that for the 3 home games they have had, the same crew has already worked 2 of them this season. 

[TXMike]

I'm with you guys about the 'on-side' mess.  Wow, first they said DPU got it and setup to play, then after further review they reversed the call and gave iit to TU, then after debating things with the DPU coaching staff, a "do-over" was considered and after five minutes of debate, a penalty on TU surfaced (w/penalty yardage) forcing TU to re-kick deep.  I don't think TU video of the webcast will show clock problems,,, but we'll see when it's downloaded.  Maybe the endzone camera from the scissor-lift?

Was this an onside kick early in the 2d half?  What did you see happen on the play (not what the refs did , but what happened from when ball was kicked until it became dead?)

[TigerDad]

Wes, I apologize in my weak efforts to inject just a tiny bit of humor into what seems to be an unusually tense discussion.  Sorry if I have offended you or caused you to feel the need to defend yourself.  Next time, I will include the appropriate smiley to indicate my tone.

TXMike, thank you for that explanation.  However, as a resident of a small town in Texas (Class 1A high school), I am accustomed to seeing the same familiar incompetent officials on the field.  This has more to do with availability of those lesser-skilled officials than any attempt to "get" the same guys to work our games.  We have a saying in 1A football that may apply to San Antonio and perhaps D3 in general: "We don't get the best officials."

Again, I apologize for any remarks I made that may have offended y'all.  I was simply trying to diffuse the emotion ... apparently unsuccessfully.

[DPU3619]

No apology necessary, sir.  I'm just really, really frustrated.  I'm frustrated that DePauw lost to Trinity again.  That has very little to do with the clock.

I'm frustrated that we're having this conversation, which for those of us who've been on this board for a few years, it seems like we have to have every two years.  The only problem I have with this is that while you may not be getting the best officials, you sure do get the same bad officials, which is a problem.  I don't really hate the officials DePauw gets, but they're at least different.  I researched all the way back to the turn of the century, and only one official worked 3 games in the same season.  Lonnie Sapp was the field judge for 3 of DePauw's 5 games in 2003.  In fact, one year DePauw had 30 different officials work their 5 home games.  If 30 different guys can come to tiny ol' Greencastle, Indiana, then logic would hold that the same thing is at possible in metropolitan area the size of San Antonio.  I'm sure there are enough officials approved to have a different crew.  That sounds more like a problem with who's assigning them than anyone else.

I had an anonymous email come into the inbox this morning, and if I'm wrong about this, I'll gladly apologize to all offended parties in advance, but whoever this person was, they said that the head linesman for yesterday's game had worked somewhere near 20 consecutive Trinity home games.  Can anyone here confirm that?

[Pat Coleman]

If 30 different guys can come to tiny ol' Greencastle, Indiana, then logic would hold that the same thing is at possible in metropolitan area the size of San Antonio. 

That doesn't make one bit of sense, Wes, sorry. How many Division III football games are within three hours of Greencastle on a weekly basis and how many are within three hours of San Antonio?

I think it's fairly easy to suggest that there actually are not many officiating crews for this level in the San Antonio area at all.

[DPULefty22]

If 30 different guys can come to tiny ol' Greencastle, Indiana, then logic would hold that the same thing is at possible in metropolitan area the size of San Antonio. 

That doesn't make one bit of sense, Wes, sorry. How many Division III football games are within three hours of Greencastle on a weekly basis and how many are within three hours of San Antonio?

I think it's fairly easy to suggest that there actually are not many officiating crews for this level in the San Antonio area at all.

Based on the events of yesterday, I'd have to surmise that there may not be any.

[DPU3619]

If 30 different guys can come to tiny ol' Greencastle, Indiana, then logic would hold that the same thing is at possible in metropolitan area the size of San Antonio. 

How many Division III football games are within three hours of Greencastle on a weekly basis and how many are within three hours of San Antonio?

Not many.  Maybe 2 or 3 in a given week.  But there's a whole bunch of NCAA games.  By my count, there are about 25 teams playing NCAA football (*clap clap clap*) DEEP IN THE HEART OF TEXAS! You don't need special accrediation to work a Division III game compared to a Division I game.  I've been down to Millsaps and we've had Penn Wagers' crew, who is routinely calling SEC games on CBS.  We've had Big Ten crews from time to time.  It's not just about D3 games.  It's about the number of officials with the appropriate credentials to legally officiate.  My (poorly articulated) point was, I'd wager there's more than 9 or 10 within the 3 hours of  San Antonio, which is just about how many Trinity runs through in a given year.  Maybe not 30 different guys, sure, but at least a few different crews.

EDIT: Furtermore, TLU (Seguin,TX - 45 minutes away) had the same officials (a crew belonging to referee Ryan Bading) for just 2 of their 5 home games last year.  In 2006, Ryan Bading's crew worked 3 of the 6 home games.  A Ford Sasser led crew officiatied two of the remaining three.  Nobody officiated more than 3.  That's certainly not ideal, but it's a heckuva lot better than what we're talking about.  Particularly if one official hasn't missed a home game since the Dan DesPlaines era.

[Ralph Turner]

In the San Antonio area, there are not many (non-D-I) collegiate programs...

Texas A&M Kingsville
Texas Lutheran
Trinity

Every other program is at least 150 miles away from San Antonio.