FB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[KentATM]

I'm not really sure anyone can say the clock had no bearing on the game.  That clearly would have effected what DePauw was doing late.  5 minutes is a LONG time in football.  Just ask the Houston Texans who blew a 17 point lead in that span.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, didn't the game essentially end when DePauw didnt get an onside kick?  I was only half watching the live stats so I could certainly be wrong but if thats the case then YES the clock played a major role b/c odds are they would not have been kicking an onsider at the point.

[DPU3619]

With both Wisconsin-Eau Claire and Capital losing today, looks like Millsaps should be a good bet to crack the Top 10.

Wes, it seems hard to believe something so elementary would be continually mishandled.  Did the DePauw sideline argue this, and the officials continued to let it go?  

I actually missed your post about this buried at the bottom a couple of pages back.  The answer to that question is yes.  DePauw did argue. I was told the officials did conference, and it was apparently the final decision of the head referee to proceed with the clock moving when the ball was whistled ready.  Boy, to be a fly on the wall during that conference and the 5 minute conference about the onside kick.  Probably pretty funny stuff.

Despite the further protest of the DePauw sideline, no change was made to the clock rules.  Upon further review, I'm told that they did indeed stop the clock in the last two minutes of both halves on incomplete passes, so perhaps they confused it with the out of bounds thing.  I just don't know.

[TXMike]

If 30 different guys can come to tiny ol' Greencastle, Indiana, then logic would hold that the same thing is at possible in metropolitan area the size of San Antonio. 

That doesn't make one bit of sense, Wes, sorry. How many Division III football games are within three hours of Greencastle on a weekly basis and how many are within three hours of San Antonio?

I think it's fairly easy to suggest that there actually are not many officiating crews for this level in the San Antonio area at all.

Actually there are MANY guys right there in San Antonio who could do a fine job.  They are just not permitted to do the TU games because, as I said, the home school there is picking the guys.  Maybe this is not well known outside of Texas but HS football in Texas is played under NCAA rules with just a very few exceptions.  Therefore there are MANY guys who are well versed in the NCAA rules and who, if given the chance, would do a fine job there.  As I said earlier, if you can find the Trinity box scores which include the ref's names and you research them for years you will find something that might (or might not) amaze you.   I suspect the same would be true for many other D-III schools. 

The San Antonio football officials chapter has about  300 members, including guys in various college conferences who work HS football when they can.  Just up the road  about 75 miles is the Austin Chapter which has over 200 members , again all trained on NCAA rules. 

There is a D-III conference in Texas and Loisianna (American Southwest Conference) which provides officials for the ASC games  Those guys come from all over the State of Texas and are willing to travel pretty long distances as they are sent to different schools by the ASC friom week to week.  I am quite sure if Trinity wanted a more diverse group of officials, they could get them.

[evacuee]

I definitely am trying to change the subject.  I don't know how much more you could say about all of the officiating.

The other embarrassment at EM Stevens Stadium yesterday was the condition of the field.  Clearly, they've moved from the baseball outfield to the football field for practice, which I though wouldn't happen for another week or so.  In any case, after all the full tuition playing students and recognition that program has brought to the school, it is hard to conceive that Trinity would allow its most visible program to be seen playing in that sand pit. 

Please tell me that someone has some information on how the current campaign is going to aid the stadium.  Anyone...anyone...

[frank_ezelle]

On a different note, I have posted some photos from the Sewanee vs Millsaps game.  I knew I wouldn't have time to take photos of all the sports this year so my original plan was to take none.  I eventually realized that taking some photos was better than none, so I have taken photos at some soccer and volleyball, but football is just too big a project, especially with the JV team.  Plus, there are several parents taking football photos so that sport is getting covered.

Anyway, I had my camera at Millsaps for a volleyball game yesterday and while I didn't intend to take football photos, it just sort of happened.  It's not the complete game, the shots were taken from the stands, and I only had a 70-200 lens, but they turned out okay.  Here's the link and I recommend using the slideshow feature to see the photos full screen:

http://fle-pics.smugmug.com/gallery/6305237_zE4Q8#397635087_CtAEt

[exmajor]

Also on a different note, I want to thank everyone for the updates yesterday!  I enjoyed being able to follow the action away from my computer.  Thanks again guys, look forward to being in SA in a couple of weeks!

[Pat Coleman]

If 30 different guys can come to tiny ol' Greencastle, Indiana, then logic would hold that the same thing is at possible in metropolitan area the size of San Antonio. 

How many Division III football games are within three hours of Greencastle on a weekly basis and how many are within three hours of San Antonio?

Not many.  Maybe 2 or 3 in a given week.  But there's a whole bunch of NCAA games.  By my count, there are about 25 teams playing NCAA football (*clap clap clap*) DEEP IN THE HEART OF TEXAS! You don't need special accrediation to work a Division III game compared to a Division I game. 

No, Wes, but you need to be willing to work for a loooooooooooooot less pay to work a D-III game.

[wabashcpa]

No kidding there.

Don't have any football refs as clients, but I do have a basketball ref, and last year he had a game in Greencastle and was paid $125.  The vast majority of his games are D-1 (mostly Summit League), where the usual pay per game is $1,200.  So I can only assume the disparity is similar in football.

[DPU3619]

No, Wes, but you need to be willing to work for a loooooooooooooot less pay to work a D-III game.

Maybe I just don't get it, but if I lived in Austin, and I wasn't on UT's crew, or A&M's crew, or Houston's crew... so and and so forth.... I'd have two choices - I could sit on my ass and make no money, or drive the 75 miles or whatever it is and make a little extra.  Seems like a no-brainer to me.  But, whatever.  Not really trying to argue about semantics.

I think my friend has established that there are plenty of other referees to pick from if Trinity was actually interested in such a thing, which was what I was first trying to get at. 

[TXMike]

Money could even be a consideration for non D-1 guys in some cases.  HS games in Texas pay officials according to the size of the gate.  It is not unusual to make more for a Texas HS game than you can make at a D-III game.  So if there has to be a choice between the 2.... well, you figure it out.  Since Trinity is playing on Saturday afternoon's there is no serious competition with HS games in the area as most of them will be done Fri  night but it is still a consideration. 

[Tex]

Wow.

[roocru]

On another note;   

I am proud of the resurgence of the Roos!  I have not seen Rhodes since AC joined the conference.  Can anyone give me some info on their offense, defense, best players, etc.?  What can I expect when I watch the Homecoming game this weekend??

[Tex]

Penalties-Yards...............     4-30     5-55

For all this bitching, you'd think the 5-55 was DePauw.  It was TU.   4 penalties on one side, 5 on the other.  Pretty even in numbers, but not yards.  That's the way it goes.

I doubt quite seriously that anyone in the booth purposely kept the clock running.  Maybe the guy on the field didn't signal to stop it.  I have no idea.  Incompetence?  Maybe they messed up in DePauw's favor as well yesterday at times.  

It had little to nothing to determine the outcome.  

Spud's 3 INTs, 1 returned for the TD had a lot more to do with it.  Or maybe the 43 total rushing yards TU allowed.  Or maybe the 177 rushing yards the DePauw defense allowed.  

I certainly don't mean to be disrespectful to the DePauw kids:  they played their butts off, hard hitting, maximum effort.  They were not able to get it done.  I'd not blame it on the officials though.  You totally discount the athletes' efforts in the process.

I'm sure the next response or two will be, "but we aren't saying that's why they lost".  Okay, maybe you aren't but the clock thing is all you're talking about.  A few seconds at best.  


Wanna see some bad officiating?  Go to Birmingham/TU game boxscore.  

Penalties-Yards...............     8-69     4-19

[KentATM]

It had little to nothing to determine the outcome. 

I'll say it again.  A LOT can happen in 5 minutes of football.

It really does not matter what had happened up to that point.  To have so much time taken away by a flat out horrible interpretation of the rules is awful.

There have been many late game comebacks in football and to blow what happened off as having little to no impact on the game makes zero sense IMO.

It was a close enough game that losing 5 minutes would be a very big deal to me if I had been playing on either team.

Its also not just the game ending early that would be an issue either.  That means all four quarters were stopped sooner than they should have been.  That has an impact on the entire game from what wind and field conditions your squad is dealing with to your clock/game management to your play calling.

Also, I do not think simply looking at how many penalties and yards were called on each other tells you much at all concerning how good or bad the refs were.

[TXMike]

Penalties-Yards...............     4-30     5-55

For all this bitching, you'd think the 5-55 was DePauw.  It was TU.   4 penalties on one side, 5 on the other.  Pretty even in numbers, but not yards.  That's the way it goes.

I doubt quite seriously that anyone in the booth purposely kept the clock running.  Maybe the guy on the field didn't signal to stop it.  I have no idea.  Incompetence?  Maybe they messed up in DePauw's favor as well yesterday at times.  

Wanna see some bad officiating?  Go to Birmingham/TU game boxscore.  

Penalties-Yards...............     8-69     4-19

Nobody who really knows football would compare penalties to assess quality of officiating. 

You are correct in the assessment of it not being the clock operator's fault. It is up to the guys on the field to know the rules and know when to stop and start the clock.  They did not do so throughout this game when it came to incomplete passes.  Who knows how much time was lost  (Of course it was time lost to both teams so the fact there was lost time may not have even affected the final outcome)