FB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[fb52]

Hey Wes I am new to this board but with this clock thing appearing to be the blunder that it is can someone, anyone go right to the top and I mean the NCAA and put in a formal grievence? I would do so along with a grievence to the SCAC head office. The thought of these same officials calling most all of these Trinity games and getting away with this is unbelieveable to me. I didn't hear if anybody said the clock was wound incorrectly when Trinity had the ball and threw incompletions?

The thought of someone 'new to this board' without a concrete understanding of the situation coming and jumping on what is essentially a bunch of hearsay is what's unbelievable to me.  According to my brother, who was present at the game, the clock was wound during all incompletions.   

By all means, if someone in a position of responsibility thinks there is an issue, it should be taken to the SCAC office, not just hurled around on a message board.  

Just because I am new to this board I certainly am not new to reading this board and very farmiliar with the SCAC teams. In fact I have been reading this board for over 3 years now especially since my son is a starter on an SCAC team. How rude and arogant you are to make such a statement. I asked this because Wes had evidence from the stats that the clock ran on incompletions when Depauw had the ball. That is not hearsay. I further asked about if the clock also ran when Trinity had the ball because I didn't see any comments to that fact. You know nothing about me or my knowledge of this conference or the game of football. It is comments like this that probably keep more people from registering and participating on this message board.

[Pat Coleman]

Deep breath, 52 -- all Ron had to go on was what you said and you said you were new.

[fb52]

Deep breath, 52 -- all Ron had to go on was what you said and you said you were new.

It is obvious that I was "new" to posting on this message board but he should not have assumed that I didn't know what I was talking about bacause of that. It seemed to me there was sufficient evidence not hearsay on what Wes was talking about

[frank_ezelle]

Until all of this started, I thought I knew the rule about the game clock and an incompleted pass.  Now I'm not sure that I do know the rule.  Which of the following is correct for D3 football:

1) The game clock stops after an incompleted pass and it does not restart until the ball is snapped.
2) The game clock stops after an incompleted pass and it is restarted after the ball is set.
3) The game clock is up to the official on the field and if he wants the clock to run he signals the clock operator to start that sucker.

I always thought it was #1 and that there wasn't any room for interpretation, but I've been wrong plenty of times before.  However, if #1 is correct, then I'm surprised that the officials wouldn't get the misunderstanding corrected once they realized that the clock was continuing to run.  

Most of the time people will say that the one thing they want from officiating is consistency, but I don't think that means they want something to be consistently wrong.  IF the clock should be stopped and not restarted until the ball is snapped, then it is somewhat scary that there would be someone on the clock all game that didn't know the rule and that the officials wouldn't correct the situation.

[exmajor]

An attempt to change gears here, most of you saw the article about Juan Joseph last week in the local Jackson paper, this is another atricle about Coach Dubose from an affliate paper in MS.

http://www.northeastledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081015/SPORTS/810150308/1003

Another nice article on the job Dubose has done with rebuilding this program.  I know all who read this site don't hold Dubose in high regard, but he has done an amazing job with the Millsaps football team in such a short period of time.  Again the question will be does he remain satisified with building a power at the DIII level or does the call to move back into the higher ranks overshadow the success to date at Millsaps.  Based on some of his comments after the Sewanee game last week, I get the sense he is not satisfied with where this team is right now and sees a lot more potential, kinda scary if this is true.  Of course November 1st should shed a lot more light on the caliber of this team!

[D3_DPUFan]

Based on some of his comments after the Sewanee game last week, I get the sense he is not satisfied with where this team is right now and sees a lot more potential, kinda scary if this is true.  Of course November 1st should shed a lot more light on the caliber of this team!

I think we got a sense for how good the Majors can be when we were in Jackson October 4...very nice looking team indeed! And nice to see both Millsaps and Trinity getting some respect in the polls...

[Pat Coleman]

Deep breath, 52 -- all Ron had to go on was what you said and you said you were new.

It is obvious that I was "new" to posting on this message board but he should not have assumed that I didn't know what I was talking about bacause of that. It seemed to me there was sufficient evidence not hearsay on what Wes was talking about

If you've been lurking for a long time and just started  posting, that's certainly different, but you didn't say that. You implied the opposite.

If you've truly been lurking for a while then you have seen other posters register, do a drive-by slam on one team or another and never return. So that's the context Ron was probably working from.

[Pat Coleman]

Until all of this started, I thought I knew the rule about the game clock and an incompleted pass.  Now I'm not sure that I do know the rule.  Which of the following is correct for D3 football:

1) The game clock stops after an incompleted pass and it does not restart until the ball is snapped.
2) The game clock stops after an incompleted pass and it is restarted after the ball is set.
3) The game clock is up to the official on the field and if he wants the clock to run he signals the clock operator to start that sucker.

I believe 1 and 3 are both correct. The clock operator must do what the officials on the field say in terms of running the clock, even in the instance that the official on the field is blatantly wrong.

In fact, this happened at the game I was at this week as well, mostly an official who struggled with when to use 25 or 40 seconds on the play clock.

[fb52]

Deep breath, 52 -- all Ron had to go on was what you said and you said you were new.

It is obvious that I was "new" to posting on this message board but he should not have assumed that I didn't know what I was talking about bacause of that. It seemed to me there was sufficient evidence not hearsay on what Wes was talking about

If you've been lurking for a long time and just started  posting, that's certainly different, but you didn't say that. You implied the opposite.

If you've truly been lurking for a while then you have seen other posters register, do a drive-by slam on one team or another and never return. So that's the context Ron was probably working from.

"Lurking" What exactly does that mean?  I didn't  bash any team. I believe it was the officials that I directed my question to Wes and not the entire forum. I certainly can see why some posters never come back.

[DPU3619]

Hey Wes I am new to this board but with this clock thing appearing to be the blunder that it is can someone, anyone go right to the top and I mean the NCAA and put in a formal grievence? I would do so along with a grievence to the SCAC head office.

To put our squabble to rest, the home office has been made aware of the issue.  The commish reads this board, but I can almost certainly assure you that the University has made him aware of the issue from a more formal standpoint.

EDIT: And Ron is right.  The clock ran incorrectly for both teams for the entire game excluding the last two minutes of both halves.  But, the point is that the game was shorter, which makes it harder on the team who is behind to come back from two scores down.  I can't possibly say exactly how much time was lost, but I'd estimate that it was probably between 3 and 5 actual minutes off the game clock that shouldn't have been taken off.  I say again that I do feel that DePauw probably loses that game if it's 5 mintues, 5 hours, or 5 days longer.  But, we just don't know that.  No matter how firmly you believe that there was no change in outcome, we just don't know that for a certainty.

[DPU3619]

Oh, and one more thing, here's a photo uncovered about that onside kick fiasco.  Seems like the FJ is fairly certain that DePauw has it.  Start there and proceed the next several photos until the FJ magiaclly changes his mind and then the mysterious huddle begins.

Also, I wonder who on the TU sideline made Joeckel so mad so darned angry.

[TigerDad]

Hey, Wes:  Thanks for providing the link to that very flattering photo of one of DePauw's kickoff coverage men signalling "first down" to the Trinity Tiger bench.  I'm sure the whole DPU community will be proud of the fine sportsmanship displayed here.  Or was he signalling to the timekeeper in the pressbox?

Perhaps you should send this photo to the "home office" along with your earlier complaints.  Did you pick that particular photo for some Freudian reason?



Here's the link (slightly smaller version that doesn't overfill my screen):
http://tigerpics.smugmug.com/gallery/6309718_2s9zu#398100654_3izHy-L-LB

(Tex ... good shot!)

[exmajor]

Based on some of his comments after the Sewanee game last week, I get the sense he is not satisfied with where this team is right now and sees a lot more potential, kinda scary if this is true.  Of course November 1st should shed a lot more light on the caliber of this team!

I think we got a sense for how good the Majors can be when we were in Jackson October 4...very nice looking team indeed! And nice to see both Millsaps and Trinity getting some respect in the polls...

True, but I was referring more to the last two games.  No offense to Centre and Sewanee, but Millsaps did not seem to have quite the passion it did against Depauw in these two games.  I have no explanation for it, just an outside observation, but Dubose seems to be on the same page as he mentioned there is room for improvement after the Sewanee game this past week.  I am sure he will have them ready for Nov. 1 with close to two weeks of preparation.

[TXMike]

 Which of the following is correct for D3 football:

1) The game clock stops after an incompleted pass and it does not restart until the ball is snapped.
2) The game clock stops after an incompleted pass and it is restarted after the ball is set.
3) The game clock is up to the official on the field and if he wants the clock to run he signals the clock operator to start that sucker.

In all NCAA, not just D-III , # 1 and 3 are correct.  There are some exceptions but they involve deliberate attempts to conserve time when such a pass is not permitted.  Ex:  Time is running out, QB runs for a 5 yd gain and sees he will be tackled so he deliberately spikes the ball, hoping clock will be stopped for the incomplete pass.  After the penalty for the illegal pass is assessed, the referee will order the clock started.  FOr nornmal, run of the mill, incomplete passes, clock restarts on the snap

[Tex]

Hey, Wes:  Thanks for providing the link to that very flattering photo of one of DePauw's kickoff coverage men signalling "first down" to the Trinity Tiger bench.  I'm sure the whole DPU community will be proud of the fine sportsmanship displayed here.  Or was he signalling to the timekeeper in the pressbox?

Perhaps you should send this photo to the "home office" along with your earlier complaints.  Did you pick that particular photo for some Freudian reason?



Here's the link (slightly smaller version that doesn't overfill my screen):
http://tigerpics.smugmug.com/gallery/6309718_2s9zu#398100654_3izHy-L-LB

(Tex ... good shot!)

I'm embarrassed to say that the onside kick caught me pretty much napping.  I missed what I think is the most important part of that sequence.  And that was what happened as the ball crossed the 10 yard mark.  I think the one official clearly saw the TU player with the ball on the ground, and ruled the play dead.  I'm only guessing now, with all the confusion, that a DP player wrestled the ball away after the one guy ruled it dead.  Lots of things go on on the bottom of the pile.  

The do-over had to come to play when the flag was finally dropped.  Illegal block or soemthing was called and that has me believing that maybe they ruled a TU player hit a DP player prematurely as the ball was bouncing.  I have no way of knowing that as I was admittedly napping on that play. Caught me completely off guard.  

I never really noticed the clock running at the wrong time.  Granted when you're shooting photos, the clock is not something you watch.  TU was behind a couple of times when this alleged clock thing took place.  Figured I'd point that out.

Also, how is that all these folks here are speaking with such authority on this issue?  Is there a video out there that shows this to be the case or is it simply a report from a guy that was there?  

Anyway, I ask that rhetorically as I'm going to quit talking about it.  Time to concentrate on my Tennessee travel plans.