2011 Final Four

[KnightSlappy]

I don't know if the rules are different for the final 4, but teams that are more than 500 miles (I think that's the distance...) would fly as opposed to being bussed. 

Even if the the Final 4 was at Wittenberg or Wooster, a team like Stevens Point would still fly... but that would bring Illinois and Michigan within driving distance.  Amherst and Williams would still fly too.

I wonder if there's a cheaper destination, in terms of teams flying there...  Would Ohio be that, or not?

Another thing to consider is that maybe more fans from a place like Stevens Point (or any number of WIAC, or CCIW schools) would be able to attend a Final Four in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, or Ohio because they would be able to drive, even if the team still flew.

[Titan Q]

I wonder what the median is for distance...  Neb Wesleyan is kind of out on an island, and if a SCIAC or NWC team ever make it, they would severely skew the results in terms of a mean.

When you list all 56 Salem teams, and the distances from campus to Salem, the median is 626 miles.

(Again, I'm counting Amherst's 631 miles 4 miles, and IWU's 657 miles 4 times, etc.)

[Titan Q]

I'm not a mint-on-the-pillow guy either, but neither am I a bullet-in-the-head or a truck-outside-the-window sort of guy, and those seemed to be the main options (unless you wanted to pony up some serious cash). The hotels I looked at in Salem were dirty, unsafe, small, and substandard in every respect. They were dumps.

Check a map: there is not much in Salem proper. If you go to Roanoke you can find more, and better, hotels. It's a good 10 miles away. that might not seem like much, but it's not inconsequential.

Even if I were to concede the housing situation was acceptable (I'm not), there remains the restaurant options, the fact that Salem is inaccessible, and the Civic Center itself. I stand by my claim it's a bad location, that the tournament will never generate more support so long as it is there, and the the NCAA would be wise to cast its eyes elsewhere.

Convert, as someone who has been to 10 of the 14 Final Fours in Salem I am comfortable saying you are way off here regarding hotels and restaurants.  I don't think you've done enough homework in finding options in either category.

Roanoke has a bunch of your typical "business traveler" hotels...newer, clean, comfortable, etc.  Most are over by the mall, with all of your standard chain restaurant options (Friday's, Outback, etc, etc).  Downtown Roanoke also has several good restaurants and bars...downtown is also where Hotel Roanoke is, which is very nice.  From Roanoke to the Salem Civic Center is only about 15 minutes.

Downtown Salem has good ole Mac & Bob's, where I have watched many an NCAA D1 tournament game with friends to kill time on game days...and never had anything but good food.

You need to ask around a little more the next time the Flying Dutchmen head to Salem.  I have a lot of concerns with the issue of Salem's location, but I have none with the quality of hotels, restaurants, etc.

P.S. Make sure to have a Cheesy Western at the Texas Tavern in downtown Roanoke next time.  I'd give you directions, but I've only been there between 1:00am and 2:00am and my memory is always a little fuzzy!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Titan Q - well said. I was going to write the same thing. I have stayed at a number of hotels in the nine Final Fours I have gone to and I have never had a bad place. They are plenty of good chain hotels, even some in Salem, and the restaurants from the chains to the Mac and Bob type places in Salem and Roanoke are wonderful.

Personally, I am partial to Salem. It is a 4 to 4 1/2 drive from the Baltimore area for me and I get to see some beautiful areas of the country on my drive into western Maryland, and into West Virginia and western Virginia. While I don't fly to the area and I realize Roanoke isn't easy to fly in and out of... it is possible. Dulles is three hours away and people forget they can fly into Greensboro about 100 miles away.

I am impressed with how much Salem has done in the last ten years to improve things... new floor, new scoreboards and clocks, new seats, etc. And they have always been terrific with me, Hoopsville, and the D3hoops.com staff... so I always look forward to my visit to the area (I am heading down for my tenth straight visit and even going down a day early this time).

No... I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a new place, but my biggest concern is actually the struggles I have seen with the women's side. Most host sites only keep it for two years so they don't get a chance to either get the kinks out and run a smooth operation... or allow the rest of us to adjust and get used to a facility and the area. Also, with an always changing location... you just don't comfortable with it all... though I am bias.

One huge advantage I know I like is the simple fact I know exactly what to expect when I head to Salem.

[AO]

There has to be a way we can substitute this, with this.  The bleachers the wash u fans were on in salem look pretty temporary, is there a reason that they put the front row 50 feet from from the court?  You've got a big, mostly empty gym, and we're still worried about the atmosphere getting too crazy with the fans too close to the court?  Great seats for uninterested reporters, but the fans who miraculously made it to salem are rewarded with fences, walkways and tables between them and the action.  Put the game in a real gym where a sellout is possible, or put it in a major arena in a major city fans can get to easily and enjoy the game in a gym built for basketball.

[Pat Coleman]

Those seats are no more than 20 feet from the court. The one row in between is where the coaches have space to scout games. There's enough room to walk on each side of that barrier and not a lot more.

[AO]

Those seats are no more than 20 feet from the court. The one row in between is where the coaches have space to scout games. There's enough room to walk on each side of that barrier and not a lot more.

That's 15 feet too far IMO.  Salem certainly seems to do things the right way, but the things they can't change (their location and their gym), hold it back.  The place is better suited to host a rodeo. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Great seats for uninterested reporters

Don't know one "reporter" who is at the Final Four who is uninterested. Whether its those following the teams there... the local broadcasters... those from CBS College Sports... or the staff at D3hoops.com... every person with a press pass seems interested in every aspect of the game.

Sure... I think the bleachers could be moved closer a bit... but that also means more powder from the Wash U fans will get on the court!

[Pat Coleman]

I wonder if AO is basing his entire Salem assumptions on a YouTube clip.

[r-buddy]

From the perspective of this fan who has attended 3 final 4's at Salem, it has both advantages and disadvantages.  

Positives:  ample seating that is reasonably comfortable
                spacious facility, lobby space, meeting rooms, reception rooms, etc
                excellent parking availability and accessibility
                experienced event management
                lots of community participation in hosting the event
                adequate hotel and restaurant facilities
                scenic area  
                located in a medium size city

Negatives:  not geographically equidistant to all potential participants
                event facility located several miles from most amenities
                travel to location moderately inconvenient for many who attend
                facility lacks ambiance of college campus
               
The geographic issue is most difficult since the participating institutions are never known in advance.  In my view, having the seating as it is at Salem is an advantage:  it would be unfair if a school that happened to be located near the event could fill 1000 or more seats within a couple feet of the court, as is common in campus facilities.  A team located at much greater distance from Salem, and having less potential for fans to attend, would be at a marked disadvantage, just like home court vs road court differences.  For a championship event, court neutrality is desirable.  Finally, it seems unrealistic today to expect more than several hundred fans for any school to travel to the final 4.  A facility that accommodates more than 3-4000 will rarely be needed, it seems.  Moving the event to a large city would increase some hassles, make travel potentially easier, make the event more expensive for fans, and maybe make other attractions more numerous and accessible--entirely a matter of personal taste.  Salem is OK with me.    
               
               

[KnightSlappy]

Those seats are no more than 20 feet from the court. The one row in between is where the coaches have space to scout games. There's enough room to walk on each side of that barrier and not a lot more.

I wonder if AO is basing his entire Salem assumptions on a YouTube clip.

I remember being disappointed in 2005 that we had to sit so far away from the action. You really do feel removed from the game in that particular student section area, so his assumptions seem accurate to me, even if they are based on a YouTube clip.

The Salem Civic Center was a good venue for the games, but it was unremarkable. Nothing stood out to me about the location that made me feel like it had to be there. Maybe it was because, as students, we were more concerned with keeping the trip affordable than exploring the local scene.

[Pat Coleman]

I am not sure that your fourth negative is necessarily a negative, r-buddy. I don't think it's meant to be like a college gymnasium. This is the national championship, after all.

[AO]

I wonder if AO is basing his entire Salem assumptions on a YouTube clip.

What else can I base it on?  How can we get this game on cbs or espn2?  Maybe d3 hoops will never have the audience for a major, national broadcast, but putting the game in a packed gym featuring the top two teams in the nation couldn't hurt.    As it is, Wash U played its three toughest games in the first three games with the third being more highly attended than the championship game.  

[scottiedoug]

Well you know Salem is both in The South and Appalachia where we all know there are rednecks and hillbillies with guns and stuff they just don't have in Ohio.

[Titan Q]

I am not sure that your fourth negative is necessarily a negative, r-buddy. I don't think it's meant to be like a college gymnasium. This is the national championship, after all.

I agree.  I like that it has more of an "arena feel" vs a "gym feel."  It should feel different than other games.

From a facility standpoint, I have no issues with the Salem Civic Center at all.  I've enjoyed it as a fan of a team in the Final Four, a neutral fan in the stands, and as a broadcaster.