2011 Final Four

[sac]

I should add that the +4500 plus for a small school rivalry game blows my mind. 

It is easy to keep a rivalry going when you graduate +4500 fans each year like Missouri and Kansas, but for two very small schools, it is impressive to say the least.

The January 29, 1997 game at Van Andel Arena in downtown Grand Rapids, a 70-56 Hope triumph, established an NCAA Division III single game attendance record with a capacity crowd of 11,442.

[HopeConvert]

I am being serious. Given that it is unlikely that the elation one experiences upon one's team winning a national championship would be qualitatively superior to the elation I experience when Hope beats Calvin, why wouldn't I opt for two or three of those experiences a year versus one?

Now, a double-predestinarian naysayer might say that I am embracing my fate given that my team hasn't won a National Championship (although I should point out that, as an enthusiastic alumnus of Catholic University I do take great pride in 2001), but I have seen my team lose in the semifinals to the eventual champ, WashU, and I can say definitively that did not put me in as deep a funk as losing to Calvin does. Mutatis mutandis, the victory is unlikely to be sweeter.

I do not presume I am speaking for all Hope fans.

[HopeConvert]

I think many Hope fans force themselves to believe a similar sentiment.  It's like a coping mechanism or something.

I would most certainly rather get our tails whipped twice by the ugly Dutchmen and then rebound to win the NCAA Championship if given the choice to do so. I'd pick this every year.

Ugly Dutchmen? Ouch! Although as I recall VanNoord is rather Dutch, haha.

I agree with KnightSlappy in that I would happily lose to Calvin if it meant winning the NCAA Championship (although I would prefer both!).

While I wouldn't want to dare dive to deeply into the mind of HopeConvert. I might hypothesize the reason he may pick a different option is revealed in his name.

I meant it more in nickname, not heritage. As you point out, Calvin's every bit as dutch (heritage) as Hope is.

A good friend of mine, a member of Calvin's faculty, is amazed every time we go to a game together that Calvin has been "out-Dutched."

[ScotsFan]

In all seriousness, if I were given my choice between sweeping Calvin and not winning the NCAA Tournament, or being swept by Calvin and winning the NCAA Tournament, that would be a tough call. In truth, I'd probably opt for the former.

I can't believe that would even be a tough call???  Especially considering how much you Hope fans hate hearing the, "Where's your Banner" chant from Calvin?! 

[HopeConvert]

I think many Hope fans force themselves to believe a similar sentiment.  It's like a coping mechanism or something.

I would most certainly rather get our tails whipped twice by the ugly Dutchmen and then rebound to win the NCAA Championship if given the choice to do so. I'd pick this every year.

Ugly Dutchmen? Ouch! Although as I recall VanNoord is rather Dutch, haha.

I agree with KnightSlappy in that I would happily lose to Calvin if it meant winning the NCAA Championship (although I would prefer both!).

While I wouldn't want to dare dive to deeply into the mind of HopeConvert. I might hypothesize the reason he may pick a different option is revealed in his name.

Year after year? I don't believe that.

[sac]

On the subject of attendance.........last year's D3 tournament average of 1,204 was the lowest of 33 D3 tournaments held.

Avg reported attendance at all D3 games was 434

[WUPHF]

I am being serious. Given that it is unlikely that the elation one experiences upon one's team winning a national championship would be qualitatively superior to the elation I experience when Hope beats Calvin, why wouldn't I opt for two or three of those experiences a year versus one?

Now, a double-predestinarian naysayer might say that I am embracing my fate given that my team hasn't won a National Championship (although I should point out that, as an enthusiastic alumnus of Catholic University I do take great pride in 2001), but I have seen my team lose in the semifinals to the eventual champ, WashU, and I can say definitively that did not put me in as deep a funk as losing to Calvin does. Mutatis mutandis, the victory is unlikely to be sweeter.

Thanks for the thoughtful answer.  I understand your point, though I cannot fully relate.  Washington University has quasi-rivals, especially if we play a team enough times, like with the UAA teams in general and Chicago in particular.

A few years ago, a student group was formed to promote a rivalry with Emory University.  And, this was roughly around the time a rogue group of Emory students spray painted a number of anti-Washington University slogans around campus, including WUSTL girls are ugly.  More likely than not, the slogans were actually painted by WUSTL students, but who knows.

The group, and the notion of a rivalry are long gone.
_____

I cannot even wrap my mind around the idea that 11,442 fans would show for a Division III basketball game.  I am not doubting the figure, but it seems so impossible.  All I can say is Wow!

[AO]

I cannot even wrap my mind around the idea that 11,442 fans would show for a Division III basketball game.  I am not doubting the figure, but it seems so impossible.

Oh, it's possible.  The fans are out there.  Let's give the people a big event to get excited about even if their squad doesn't make it.
We're not going to increase attendance holding the tournament in Salem.  Let's prepare for success, and put it in a big, impressive venue, near a major airport.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I cannot even wrap my mind around the idea that 11,442 fans would show for a Division III basketball game.  I am not doubting the figure, but it seems so impossible.

Oh, it's possible.  The fans are out there.  Let's give the people a big event to get excited about even if their squad doesn't make it.
We're not going to increase attendance holding the tournament in Salem.  Let's prepare for success, and put it in a big, impressive venue, near a major airport.

You can do like the NAIA does and just guarantee two schools from the host conference get in every year.  Of course they have a bigger tournament than just four teams, but the principle usually helps them break even for the week.

[Gregory Sager]

I think many Hope fans force themselves to believe a similar sentiment.  It's like a coping mechanism or something.

I would most certainly rather get our tails whipped twice by the ugly Dutchmen and then rebound to win the NCAA Championship if given the choice to do so. I'd pick this every year.

Ugly Dutchmen? Ouch! Although as I recall VanNoord is rather Dutch, haha.

I agree with KnightSlappy in that I would happily lose to Calvin if it meant winning the NCAA Championship (although I would prefer both!).

While I wouldn't want to dare dive to deeply into the mind of HopeConvert. I might hypothesize the reason he may pick a different option is revealed in his name.

I meant it more in nickname, not heritage. As you point out, Calvin's every bit as dutch (heritage) as Hope is.

A good friend of mine, a member of Calvin's faculty, is amazed every time we go to a game together that Calvin has been "out-Dutched."

I somehow doubt that many Augustana fans know or care that North Park "out-Swedishes" their school*. And I know for certain that NPU basketball fans find not one atom of consolation in that fact when our version of Vikings gets swept by the Rock Island version of Vikings, as was the case this season.

* Both schools have Scandinavian Studies centers on campus, and both offer Swedish-language classes and Scandinavian Studies majors; NPU, however, has had actual Swedes play for the team -- including one this year -- and NPU also, unlike Augie, uses the colors of the Swedish flag as its school colors. For some unknown reason, Augie eschewed royal blue in favor of navy blue.

[Titan Q]

I cannot even wrap my mind around the idea that 11,442 fans would show for a Division III basketball game.  I am not doubting the figure, but it seems so impossible.

Oh, it's possible.  The fans are out there.  Let's give the people a big event to get excited about even if their squad doesn't make it.
We're not going to increase attendance holding the tournament in Salem.  Let's prepare for success, and put it in a big, impressive venue, near a major airport.

As I posted a week or so ago, I think the biggest crowd possible at a neutral-site D3 Final Four - if all the stars aligned just right - is about 5500.  I don't want a venue with more basketball seating than about 7000.

I've used this facility as an example before, but Bloomington, IL's U.S. Cellular Colliseum really would be the perfect type building...

http://www.uscellularcoliseum.com/facility/gallery/index.html?c=1&id=7&t=9

(I don't think Bloomington, IL solves all of our location issues though.)

   

[Mr. Ypsi]

Eastern Michigan U's Convocation Center ("The House That Earl [Boykins] Built") holds 8,000.  Rather a bit north of center, but just about perfect east-west.   And near infinite parking!

And we are 15 minutes from Detroit Metropolitan Airport, which just won the ranking of #1 in customer service!

And I'd personally greet each and every one of you to Ypsi(lanti).

(Downside: I may be the only person within twenty miles who knows that D3 exists! )

[KnightSlappy]

Eastern Michigan U's Convocation Center ("The House That Earl [Boykins] Built") holds 8,000.  Rather a bit north of center, but just about perfect east-west.   And near infinite parking!

And we are 15 minutes from Detroit Metropolitan Airport, which just won the ranking of #1 in customer service!

And I'd personally greet each and every one of you to Ypsi(lanti).

(Downside: I may be the only person within twenty miles who knows that D3 exists! )

I was talking with ziggy the other day, and he also mentioned that the EMU Convocation Center could be a good venue. It hosted one game of the WNBA finals a few years ago. But as you point out, SE Michigan is not a local hotbed for D3 sports (although Adrian College is 37 miles away so there may be some supporters nearby).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convocation_Center_%28Eastern_Michigan_University%29

It was also the location of my High School commencement ceremony. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Eastern Michigan U's Convocation Center ("The House That Earl [Boykins] Built") holds 8,000.  Rather a bit north of center, but just about perfect east-west.  And near infinite parking!

And we are 15 minutes from Detroit Metropolitan Airport, which just won the ranking of #1 in customer service!

And I'd personally greet each and every one of you to Ypsi(lanti).

(Downside: I may be the only person within twenty miles who knows that D3 exists! )

I was talking with ziggy the other day, and he also mentioned that the EMU Convocation Center could be a good venue. It hosted one game of the WNBA finals a few years ago. But as you point out, SE Michigan is not a local hotbed for D3 sports (although Adrian College is 37 miles away so there may be some supporters nearby).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convocation_Center_%28Eastern_Michigan_University%29

It was also the location of my High School commencement ceremony.  :)

OMG - did you graduate from YHS or Lincoln (or does someone else also use the facility)?

And, yeah, the extent of my MIAA bball experience is Adrian.  (I used to go to all the Hope@Adrian games, but missed this year - I coulda given sac and FDF a hard time! ).

[KnightSlappy]

Eastern Michigan U's Convocation Center ("The House That Earl [Boykins] Built") holds 8,000.  Rather a bit north of center, but just about perfect east-west.  And near infinite parking!

And we are 15 minutes from Detroit Metropolitan Airport, which just won the ranking of #1 in customer service!

And I'd personally greet each and every one of you to Ypsi(lanti).

(Downside: I may be the only person within twenty miles who knows that D3 exists! )

I was talking with ziggy the other day, and he also mentioned that the EMU Convocation Center could be a good venue. It hosted one game of the WNBA finals a few years ago. But as you point out, SE Michigan is not a local hotbed for D3 sports (although Adrian College is 37 miles away so there may be some supporters nearby).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convocation_Center_%28Eastern_Michigan_University%29

It was also the location of my High School commencement ceremony.  :)

OMG - did you graduate from YHS or Lincoln (or does someone else also use the facility)?

And, yeah, the extent of my MIAA bball experience is Adrian.  (I used to go to all the Hope@Adrian games, but missed this year - I coulda given sac and FDF a hard time! ).

Canton, actually. The Plymouth-Canton schools use (or perhaps used) it for their ceremonies.

Even if the upper level was sparsely populated, it may not feel too big if the lower bowl was full. Probably little to no local "walk up" fans here though.