2011 Final Four

[woosterbooster]

When I was a kid, I saw NYU when they played major college basketball, at least what passed for that on the east coast.  I'm pretty sure that I saw them in the NIT, when that still meant something, at the old Madison Square Garden at 50th and 8th.  Or it could have been at the old Holiday Festival, also at the Garden.

They had such players as Barry Kramer, he of the hesitation jump shot which he shot with only one hand touching the ball (ala Bob Pettit), and forward Happy Hairston who went on to play with the Lakers.  Hairston was also in one of the funniest Lite Beer commercials, the one in which he's spinning the ball on his hand and when he walks away, the ball remains in position, still spinning.

[formerbant10]

The one place to catch a game if it is ever possible is at Hunter College, their gym is below ground level, alongside or slightly below the NYC Subway.  Very interesting venue for a game.

Sounds like a scarey place to have the game on the line when you shoot your free throw as the 9:17 from Brooklyn rolls by

Hunter has its own Subway Station off the 6 Train.  When you get off the train you still have to take an escalator and then a set of stairs down to get on to the actual court.  You don't really notice the subway so much, but in the hallway outside the gym there's constant noise from the escalators which are quite annoying.

[Knightstalker]

When I was there for an NCAA game in 98 you could hear the subway trains that were rumbling overhead and if you watch the net close enough you can see it start to vibrate sometimes.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The one place to catch a game if it is ever possible is at Hunter College, their gym is below ground level, alongside or slightly below the NYC Subway.  Very interesting venue for a game.

Sounds like a scarey place to have the game on the line when you shoot your free throw as the 9:17 from Brooklyn rolls by

Hunter has its own Subway Station off the 6 Train.  When you get off the train you still have to take an escalator and then a set of stairs down to get on to the actual court.  You don't really notice the subway so much, but in the hallway outside the gym there's constant noise from the escalators which are quite annoying.

Sooooooo, about that game vs. the Mole People?

[hopefan]

knightstalker - having played at RPI back in the late 60's, the strangest venue we ever played in was at what was then called Brooklyn Poly.  Does the school now exist as either NY Tech or Polytechnic University?

Anyway, I remember running up  a set of stairs to the top of a building - the floor (no bleachers at all) had a ceiling that was a transparent bubble - and because the game was on a Saturday afternoon  (after playing at Stevens tech in Hoboken on Friday night), it was horrendously bright as the winter sun shone "directly" down on us.

Brooklyn Poly wasn't very good.....

[formerbant10]

knightstalker - having played at RPI back in the late 60's, the strangest venue we ever played in was at what was then called Brooklyn Poly.  Does the school now exist as either NY Tech or Polytechnic University?

Anyway, I remember running up  a set of stairs to the top of a building - the floor (no bleachers at all) had a ceiling that was a transparent bubble - and because the game was on a Saturday afternoon  (after playing at Stevens tech in Hoboken on Friday night), it was horrendously bright as the winter sun shone "directly" down on us.

Brooklyn Poly wasn't very good.....

Did you play shirts vs. skins as well??

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

knightstalker - having played at RPI back in the late 60's, the strangest venue we ever played in was at what was then called Brooklyn Poly.  Does the school now exist as either NY Tech or Polytechnic University?

Anyway, I remember running up  a set of stairs to the top of a building - the floor (no bleachers at all) had a ceiling that was a transparent bubble - and because the game was on a Saturday afternoon  (after playing at Stevens tech in Hoboken on Friday night), it was horrendously bright as the winter sun shone "directly" down on us.

Brooklyn Poly wasn't very good.....

Did you play shirts vs. skins as well??

They couldn't do that appropriately, what with the girls on the Poly team and all.

That sounds like those games from the 50's when the gyms had 8 foot ceilings and the baskets were at 7 feet with pillars in the middle of the playing surface.  Gotta love the old days.

[formerbant10]

I've played in some gyms where the benches for the teams were cut into the wall and the players legs were dangling on the court. 

I've also seen some where the pillars were along the sidelines, but never too far on to the court.  Some places didn't even have padding on the pillars either, I'm sure that must have been fun.

[Knightstalker]

knightstalker - having played at RPI back in the late 60's, the strangest venue we ever played in was at what was then called Brooklyn Poly.  Does the school now exist as either NY Tech or Polytechnic University?

Anyway, I remember running up  a set of stairs to the top of a building - the floor (no bleachers at all) had a ceiling that was a transparent bubble - and because the game was on a Saturday afternoon  (after playing at Stevens tech in Hoboken on Friday night), it was horrendously bright as the winter sun shone "directly" down on us.

Brooklyn Poly wasn't very good.....

They still arent, they are one of the worst teams in the NEAC.  They are known as just Polytechnic now and it looks like they have a newer facility.

Centenary has one of the facilities like has been discussed here, very small, the walls are practically bordering the court and some other strange obstacles if I recall correctly, I haven't been there in about 20 years since I was dating a player from their team back in the mid eighties when they were a womens school.

[Ralph Turner]

The Hoopsville wrap-up on Tuesday night was quite informative.  It gave me a better perspective of the national game, because we ASC teams usually don't "have a dog in that hunt".***  (***A Texas-ism, most recently employed by former Governor Ann Richards to denote impartiality and unbiased observations.  )

The comments by Amherst and Southern Maine were quite instructive.  It seems that they play Naismithian Basketball, whereas the more accurate description of the game played in the Midwest is what Dr Naismith and his purists would describe as "indoor football".

If Ashley Smith anticipates where she wants to be under the basket for the play and commits to that position first, she has allowed the rest of the space to be occupied by someone else.  When a Hope player decides that she is not where she should be, Dr Naismith would interpret the subsequent Hope elbow in Ashley's side to be a foul.  The Hope partisans would complain about a ticky-tack foul, and plead to "let the ladies play."  Likewise, the Amherst coach realized that the game was different.  He had to adjust, but probably not to his liking.  After all, why don't we just swallow the whistles and let the guys play "indoor football"?

This type of play favors brutishness and does not reward the cerrebral understanding of where and how the game needs to be played.  It gives an overwhelming advantage to the larger player.

It also explains why the Great Lakes and Midwest Regions dominate, because Dr Naismith would say his game has degenerated into "indoor football".

[Knightstalker]

Ralph, I have heard GL and Midwest fans complain about Eastern teams playing too physical and playing "indoor football"  What I find really funny is the Amherst coach complaining about rough play, what they are complaining about this year they did a couple of years ago.  When NJCU played them in the the Sweet 16 everytime an NJCU player drove the lane you could hear the hands slapping them and see their bodies get turned and no whistle.  Schiel was hooking Battle and Williams under the boards constantly and would put his forearm right in a players chest and push and no whistle.  So basically coaches have to realize that games will be called differently and you have to adjust to not just the other teams actions but the way the officials call the game.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Yeah, maybe Amherst was complaining because it doesn't favor this particular team or perhaps because the NESCAC teams are pansies... I'm not sure; I'm making no judgements there.  I know New England ball, at least in the less prestigious conferences gets pretty rough, as does play in Upstate New York and New Jersey.

When I went to the Grinnell-Lawrence game (my first Midwest d3 match-up) I was really, really suprised at how little the refs let go.  They were calling fouls that would never even come close to drawing a whistle back in New England.

There were also complaints to that effect when Lawrence played IWU.  Perhaps its just the MWC and the NESCAC, with all of their academic snobbery, that play a more mannerly brand of basketball?

[dman]

as a nescac person, i've always considered nescac to be a really rough and tumble league, and amherst to be one of the most physical teams.  although i wasn't there, i would certainly agree with knighstalker's assessment of what happened two years ago.  i really think you must consider the source of the current comments and take it from there....

[Mr. Ypsi]

Tough to figure where this post should go - this seemed better than most.

George Mason became the first double-digit seed to make the d1 FF in 20 years (and the previous was LSU, so they are the first 'mid-major' double-digit seed ever), and this is the first year since d1 went to 64 teams that no #1 seed was in the FF.

Since d3 doesn't officially seed teams, these are hard questions to research. 

Would other posters feel that d3 has ever had the 'equivalent' of a 'double-digit' seed in the FF?

Do you think the d3 FF has ever lacked a #1 seed?

[ncbballfan]

Here is another question, also figured this was the best forum to ask:

Has it ever happened before that a state was represented in all three divisions of men's basketball at the final 4 in the same season.

D3  --  Va. Wesleyan
D2  --  Virginia Union
D1  --  George Mason ( never would have crossed my mind to be the D1 making it that far.)

If that is not enough to think about:
NIT  --  ODU

I think it's been a pretty unique post-season for men's basketball in Va. this year.