East Region Playoff Discussion

[Jonny Utah]

Smell the coffee... stop laying it on thick on the NEFC..
That goes for you as well Pat Coleman.

Now Curry should go out and actually SCHEDULE someone in the regular season. Don't leave us guessing in November as to whether you're actually good or not.

And what happens if Cortland beats Curry 48-0 or something similar to that?  Leaves even more questions.

[mel]

PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.
Why do they need to play Someone from NJ or NY and take on a travel expense?  So you know?  The NCAA knows too... they knew before the game.  They can drive two hours and get a game.  Maybe you missed the boat on an entire conferece.  That is just not fair. 

Seems like the Fitchberg Curry game was indeed a good one.

The best player on the field that day was not even one of Curry's guys.
It was Thornton and Miller was #2.

Before the AQ these teams did not even get a chance.
Long before D3.com in the 16 team field years it was roughly the same 16 teams getting in.

I remember a PSU team comming up to South Hill field in 87 and beating IC in an ECAC game.

How about the 17-16 victory of CNJ over CGA in 96??

Look at the scores

How about RPI?? Who should they play?  So we know?
Utica and Endicott.  They get not a second look at that.
Had they won in week 10 they and Hobart were in.

Look back to Rowan v Bridgewater... two good teams in a good evenly matched game.  Top half type teams in their leagues.

Look at Montclair yesterday... wow the #2 NJAC team gets it handed to them.  Well Albright is good and that can happen.

My point is you can no longer make bold brushing statements about the East.  Every league has its good teams, average ones and bad teams.

IC used to have a roster loaded with the best D3 players from Mass.
Now they go to Curry and other NEFC teams. 

Curry does not have to do anything to satisfy anyone.
Anyone who can dominate an 18 team league gets and the runner up needs to get a hard look. 

The playing field is level and now alot of people shake their head and say it has come to this.

[theoriginalupstate]

Two wins in the NCAA and now all of a sudden curry is worldbeaters...

Mel, seriously they're a good team but your making it sound like it should be painfully obvious to everyone on how good they are...

W/O any quality out of conference opponents its impossible to guage how good a team really is...

[Jonny Utah]

PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.
Why do they need to play Someone from NJ or NY and take on a travel expense?  So you know?  The NCAA knows too... they knew before the game.  They can drive two hours and get a game.  Maybe you missed the boat on an entire conferece.  That is just not fair. 

Seems like the Fitchberg Curry game was indeed a good one.

The best player on the field that day was not even one of Curry's guys.
It was Thornton and Miller was #2.

Before the AQ these teams did not even get a chance.
Long before D3.com in the 16 team field years it was roughly the same 16 teams getting in.

I remember a PSU team comming up to South Hill field in 87 and beating IC in an ECAC game.

How about the 17-16 victory of CNJ over CGA in 96??

Look at the scores

How about RPI?? Who should they play?  So we know?
Utica and Endicott.  They get not a second look at that.
Had they won in week 10 they and Hobart were in.

Look back to Rowan v Bridgewater... two good teams in a good evenly matched game.  Top half type teams in their leagues.

Look at Montclair yesterday... wow the #2 NJAC team gets it handed to them.  Well Albright is good and that can happen.

My point is you can no longer make bold brushing statements about the East.  Every league has its good teams, average ones and bad teams.

IC used to have a roster loaded with the best D3 players from Mass.
Now they go to Curry and other NEFC teams. 

Curry does not have to do anything to satisfy anyone.
Anyone who can dominate an 18 team league gets and the runner up needs to get a hard look. 

The playing field is level and now alot of people shake their head and say it has come to this.

Mel you conveniently leave out the times where undefeated NEFC teams get spanked in the first round to other east teams who might have lost to other east teams in the playoffs. (8-2 east team sits home while 10-0 nefc team loses by 5 TDs)

1987 Ithaca/Plymouth St ECAC game?  Are you kidding me?  How about when Ithaca had to travel up and spank around the 1994 undefeated Plymouth team that was so great.

Or the 1996 6-3 Ithaca team that beat up on 10-0 Worcester St?

You also conveniently left out the Springfield/Fitchburg game this year where the 5th place E8 team destroyed the NEFCs 5th place team.

Im also not so sure kids are choosing NEFC schools over Ithaca because of football programs.  That simply is not happening 99% of the time.

A lot of people defended the Curry pick, including me.  We all talked about it but I wasnt that suprised.

And I want you to answer my other question. 

What happens if Cortland beats Curry 48-0?  Its not as simple as one game...

[Btown999]

Upstate,

I don't think Mel is saying Curry is a world beater.  I think he is simply saying they have been tested, and in the opinion of a number of E8 posters by a team that was going to kick them all over the field (a double monkey stomp if I remember correctly).

The point is Curry has proved they belong.  They took a step last year against Wick.  They took a larger step this year against IC.  PC needs to re-evaluate the NEFC competition.  I assume the NCAA did.

BTW, I have read your posts this week and they were classy, especially after the Curry win.  It was not only you.  There were others from the E8 that had some really nice things to say.  That is appreciated.  I am not taking you to task.  But I think  people like myself that watch the NEFC are tired of being an after thought.

Finally, at some level I think it would be great if Curry scheduled some competition from outside the NEFC.  I think it would help Curry and the league.  I don't know that they can afford the expense - that's not for me to answer.  But, I also think that they do not have to schedule outside competition to prove anything to anyone.

[Btown999]

Jonny,

Let me take a shot at your question, "What is Cortland beats Curry 48-0?"

Curry will go home to Milton MA, say goodbye to the best QB in their history, and recruit for next year.  Then the following morning the sun will rise in the east and set in the west and most everyone will conclude that Curry was a fluke.

That's the same scenario as last year, isn't it?

Let me ask you a question.  What if Curry wins (no 48-0 scenario, just wins)?  Do you think anyone will begin to think the NEFC may have some merits?  I wonder.

[Jonny Utah]

Jonny,

Let me take a shot at your question, "What is Cortland beats Curry 48-0?"

Curry will go home to Milton MA, say goodbye to the best QB in their history, and recruit for next year.  Then the following morning the sun will rise in the east and set in the west and most everyone will conclude that Curry was a fluke.

That's the same scenario as last year, isn't it?

Let me ask you a question.  What if Curry wins (no 48-0 scenario, just wins)?  Do you think anyone will begin to think the NEFC may have some merits?  I wonder.

Exactly.  If Curry beats Cortland, they will have the respect of everyone here (or should have it).  The top teams in the nefc will deserve credit.

If Curry loses 48-0, then yea, people might have that right to call them a fluke don't you think?  They also have the right to give some shots at Ithaca for losing to them.  it might not be right, but sometimes you really have to prove things on the field year in and year out.

And let me be clear about what I think.  I know Curry is good.  Ive seen them play. 

[Senor RedTackle]

PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.
Why do they need to play Someone from NJ or NY and take on a travel expense?  So you know?  The NCAA knows too... they knew before the game.  They can drive two hours and get a game.  Maybe you missed the boat on an entire conferece.  That is just not fair. 

Seems like the Fitchberg Curry game was indeed a good one.

The best player on the field that day was not even one of Curry's guys.
It was Thornton and Miller was #2.

Before the AQ these teams did not even get a chance.
Long before D3.com in the 16 team field years it was roughly the same 16 teams getting in.

I remember a PSU team comming up to South Hill field in 87 and beating IC in an ECAC game.

How about the 17-16 victory of CNJ over CGA in 96??

Look at the scores

How about RPI?? Who should they play?  So we know?
Utica and Endicott.  They get not a second look at that.
Had they won in week 10 they and Hobart were in.

Look back to Rowan v Bridgewater... two good teams in a good evenly matched game.  Top half type teams in their leagues.

Look at Montclair yesterday... wow the #2 NJAC team gets it handed to them.  Well Albright is good and that can happen.

My point is you can no longer make bold brushing statements about the East.  Every league has its good teams, average ones and bad teams.

IC used to have a roster loaded with the best D3 players from Mass.
Now they go to Curry and other NEFC teams. 

Curry does not have to do anything to satisfy anyone.
Anyone who can dominate an 18 team league gets and the runner up needs to get a hard look. 

The playing field is level and now alot of people shake their head and say it has come to this.

Mel you conveniently leave out the times where undefeated NEFC teams get spanked in the first round to other east teams who might have lost to other east teams in the playoffs. (8-2 east team sits home while 10-0 nefc team loses by 5 TDs)

1987 Ithaca/Plymouth St ECAC game?  Are you kidding me?  How about when Ithaca had to travel up and spank around the 1994 undefeated Plymouth team that was so great.

Or the 1996 6-3 Ithaca team that beat up on 10-0 Worcester St?

You also conveniently left out the Springfield/Fitchburg game this year where the 5th place E8 team destroyed the NEFCs 5th place team.

Im also not so sure kids are choosing NEFC schools over Ithaca because of football programs.  That simply is not happening 99% of the time.

A lot of people defended the Curry pick, including me.  We all talked about it but I wasnt that suprised.

And I want you to answer my other question. 

What happens if Cortland beats Curry 48-0?  Its not as simple as one game...

JU....dont forget 1993 where RPI beat an undefeated Plymouth St team in the ECACs, 1992 where RPI beat and undefeated Bridgewater St team in the ECACs or 1995 where RPI absolutely throttled an undefeated Worcester St team 60 something to very little.....all 3 of those NEFC teams from RT's era thought they got screwed out of NCAA berths.

[Jonny Utah]

PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.
Why do they need to play Someone from NJ or NY and take on a travel expense?  So you know?  The NCAA knows too... they knew before the game.  They can drive two hours and get a game.  Maybe you missed the boat on an entire conferece.  That is just not fair. 

Seems like the Fitchberg Curry game was indeed a good one.

The best player on the field that day was not even one of Curry's guys.
It was Thornton and Miller was #2.

Before the AQ these teams did not even get a chance.
Long before D3.com in the 16 team field years it was roughly the same 16 teams getting in.

I remember a PSU team comming up to South Hill field in 87 and beating IC in an ECAC game.

How about the 17-16 victory of CNJ over CGA in 96??

Look at the scores

How about RPI?? Who should they play?  So we know?
Utica and Endicott.  They get not a second look at that.
Had they won in week 10 they and Hobart were in.

Look back to Rowan v Bridgewater... two good teams in a good evenly matched game.  Top half type teams in their leagues.

Look at Montclair yesterday... wow the #2 NJAC team gets it handed to them.  Well Albright is good and that can happen.

My point is you can no longer make bold brushing statements about the East.  Every league has its good teams, average ones and bad teams.

IC used to have a roster loaded with the best D3 players from Mass.
Now they go to Curry and other NEFC teams. 

Curry does not have to do anything to satisfy anyone.
Anyone who can dominate an 18 team league gets and the runner up needs to get a hard look. 

The playing field is level and now alot of people shake their head and say it has come to this.

Mel you conveniently leave out the times where undefeated NEFC teams get spanked in the first round to other east teams who might have lost to other east teams in the playoffs. (8-2 east team sits home while 10-0 nefc team loses by 5 TDs)

1987 Ithaca/Plymouth St ECAC game?  Are you kidding me?  How about when Ithaca had to travel up and spank around the 1994 undefeated Plymouth team that was so great.

Or the 1996 6-3 Ithaca team that beat up on 10-0 Worcester St?

You also conveniently left out the Springfield/Fitchburg game this year where the 5th place E8 team destroyed the NEFCs 5th place team.

Im also not so sure kids are choosing NEFC schools over Ithaca because of football programs.  That simply is not happening 99% of the time.

A lot of people defended the Curry pick, including me.  We all talked about it but I wasnt that suprised.

And I want you to answer my other question. 

What happens if Cortland beats Curry 48-0?  Its not as simple as one game...

JU....dont forget 1993 where RPI beat an undefeated Plymouth St team in the ECACs, 1992 where RPI beat and undefeated Bridgewater St team in the ECACs or 1995 where RPI absolutely throttled an undefeated Worcester St team 60 something to very little.....all 3 of those NEFC teams from RT's era thought they got screwed out of NCAA berths.

RT Im not trying to forget, there are too many to remember!

But my point was the Mel is trying to bring up a 1987 ECAC game to show the NE teams are overlooked?  Too much evidence the other way.

[Btown999]

Jonny,

Exactly.

I wouldn't be party to the IC call out only because I think that things happen on the field that may not be typically.  I don't think Currry's win was undeserved, far from it, I think they fought hard.  But from my (distance memories) of my playing days I know the footaball doesn't always bounce the way you think it will.

Maybe if Curry played IC next week the outcome would be different, maybe not. That's what makes football so amazing we will never really know until the game is played out.

I don't think Curry will tank next week.  They may be beaten.  But that's a group of kids that are mentally tough.  Many of them have had nothing but success.  Their senior class has won nothing but league championships until this year.  They took a tough loss to PSU (PSU played great btw).  Yet they came back played out the string on their schedule and got a second chance from the NCAA.  They have made the best of it thus far.

There will not be a let-up and Cortland is in for a game.  I hope its competitve and exciting for all us fans.

[Senor RedTackle]

PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.
Why do they need to play Someone from NJ or NY and take on a travel expense?  So you know?  The NCAA knows too... they knew before the game.  They can drive two hours and get a game.  Maybe you missed the boat on an entire conferece.  That is just not fair. 

Seems like the Fitchberg Curry game was indeed a good one.

The best player on the field that day was not even one of Curry's guys.
It was Thornton and Miller was #2.

Before the AQ these teams did not even get a chance.
Long before D3.com in the 16 team field years it was roughly the same 16 teams getting in.

I remember a PSU team comming up to South Hill field in 87 and beating IC in an ECAC game.

How about the 17-16 victory of CNJ over CGA in 96??

Look at the scores

How about RPI?? Who should they play?  So we know?
Utica and Endicott.  They get not a second look at that.
Had they won in week 10 they and Hobart were in.

Look back to Rowan v Bridgewater... two good teams in a good evenly matched game.  Top half type teams in their leagues.

Look at Montclair yesterday... wow the #2 NJAC team gets it handed to them.  Well Albright is good and that can happen.

My point is you can no longer make bold brushing statements about the East.  Every league has its good teams, average ones and bad teams.

IC used to have a roster loaded with the best D3 players from Mass.
Now they go to Curry and other NEFC teams. 

Curry does not have to do anything to satisfy anyone.
Anyone who can dominate an 18 team league gets and the runner up needs to get a hard look. 

The playing field is level and now alot of people shake their head and say it has come to this.

Mel you conveniently leave out the times where undefeated NEFC teams get spanked in the first round to other east teams who might have lost to other east teams in the playoffs. (8-2 east team sits home while 10-0 nefc team loses by 5 TDs)

1987 Ithaca/Plymouth St ECAC game?  Are you kidding me?  How about when Ithaca had to travel up and spank around the 1994 undefeated Plymouth team that was so great.

Or the 1996 6-3 Ithaca team that beat up on 10-0 Worcester St?

You also conveniently left out the Springfield/Fitchburg game this year where the 5th place E8 team destroyed the NEFCs 5th place team.

Im also not so sure kids are choosing NEFC schools over Ithaca because of football programs.  That simply is not happening 99% of the time.

A lot of people defended the Curry pick, including me.  We all talked about it but I wasnt that suprised.

And I want you to answer my other question. 

What happens if Cortland beats Curry 48-0?  Its not as simple as one game...

JU....dont forget 1993 where RPI beat an undefeated Plymouth St team in the ECACs, 1992 where RPI beat and undefeated Bridgewater St team in the ECACs or 1995 where RPI absolutely throttled an undefeated Worcester St team 60 something to very little.....all 3 of those NEFC teams from RT's era thought they got screwed out of NCAA berths.

RT Im not trying to forget, there are too many to remember!

But my point was the Mel is trying to bring up a 1987 ECAC game to show the NE teams are overlooked?  Too much evidence the other way.

RT is with you. No one is taking anythiing away from Curry's good performances in the last couple of years in the NCAAs...however, they still have a LONG way to go to earn a track record. Heck, RPI has a LONG way to go as well for the same right.

[mel]

I wish we could all sit down and have a cup of coffee over this stuff.
I never said world beaters.... but they belong.

Once upon a time RPI was an after thought.... than they do some good things and they belong.

Hobart was not even a thought years ago..... now they belong.

Perception is what you want.  Including the old guard of the east.

The entire NJAC gets to ride the coat tails of the Rowan great teams and they all belong.  
I mean Montclair with an undergrad enrollment of 13,500 gets upended.
I thought they belong.

Cortland may smash Curry... Curry needed to get a hotel in central NY as going there twice in a week will take its toll.
Cortland might not smash Curry.... who really knows.


I do not conveniently leave out the times of the NEFC or FFC's failures but point out that this stuff happens all the time.

The 6-3 Ithaca team that beat Worcester State in 96 ECAC was lucky to win.  IC did not score on offense that day... blocked punt for a score and a pick 6 on defense.   W State was alot better and stronger than anticipated.
That IC team was loaded by the way.. loosing to AIC, Spr (D2 types) and a Buff State team that was top shelf.  

[Jonny Utah]

I wish we could all sit down and have a cup of coffee over this stuff.
I never said world beaters.... but they belong.

Once upon a time RPI was an after thought.... than they do some good things and they belong.

Hobart was not even a thought years ago..... now they belong.

Perception is what you want.  Including the old guard of the east.

The entire NJAC gets to ride the coat tails of the Rowan great teams and they all belong.  
I mean Montclair with an undergrad enrollment of 13,500 gets upended.
I thought they belong.

Cortland may smash Curry... Curry needed to get a hotel in central NY as going there twice in a week will take its toll.
Cortland might not smash Curry.... who really knows.


I do not conveniently leave out the times of the NEFC or FFC's failures but point out that this stuff happens all the time.

The 6-3 Ithaca team that beat Worcester State in 96 ECAC was lucky to win.  IC did not score on offense that day... blocked punt for a score and a pick 6 on defense.   W State was alot better and stronger than anticipated.
That IC team was loaded by the way.. loosing to AIC, Spr (D2 types) and a Buff State team that was top shelf.  

Mel you have a lot of good points but some of them are really bugging me.

-Hobart has had a great football program for the last 25 years.  Not a powerhouse every year, but they have been a solid program.

-The NJAC has not been getting the "rowan coatail" benefits for sometime now.  Just ask Montclair the last two years.  And I also said the NJAC was overated this year and didnt deserve a bid

-IC lucky in 1996?  Ithaca was also without several offensive starters including a QB who was one of the best in the history of the program.  Worcester had one of the worst offenses and special teams I had ever seen at the d3 level.  IC was as lucky as Curry was yesterday.  I dont even want to get into the whole ECAC mindset thing again but for all intents and purposes Ithaca was a better team than Worcester St.  I also think we would have beaten them 10/10 times if we played 10 times.

-IC beat Springfield in 1996 but lost to AIC, Cortland and Buff St.

[mel]

Wow..hold on....
The Mass state kids have not picked the NEFC schools football programs over the IC program.  They picked the price tag people.  IC's financial aid dried up in the early 90's.  So the Mass kid who needs aid stays home.  Over the course of time the Football programs get better.. much better.

IC has moved it's recruiting base as far as out of state to the wealthy suburbs north of Philly... look at the roster.  

For this same reason Hobart has emerged in IC's back yard... they give great packages and poach talent.  It spreads out and more and more teams are brought back to the middle.  

Since when was St. John Fisher so good.... well now your preception is they are because of a few good years and a nice game v MUC one time.

There was once a time that my perception was the NESCAC was for softies.
Well I have seen Trinity play and the East would prefer the NESCAC stay out of the playoffs.

There is just no true eastern power any more...

Oh, and now Curry needs to beat Cortland to earn your respect.  That is just not fair.  

[Jonny Utah]

Wow..hold on....
The Mass state kids have not picked the NEFC schools football programs over the IC program.  They picked the price tag people.  IC's financial aid dried up in the early 90's.  So the Mass kid who needs aid stays home.  Over the course of time the Football programs get better.. much better.

IC has moved it's recruiting base as far as out of state to the wealthy suburbs north of Philly... look at the roster.  

For this same reason Hobart has emerged in IC's back yard... they give great packages and poach talent.  It spreads out and more and more teams are brought back to the middle.  

Since when was St. John Fisher so good.... well now your preception is they are because of a few good years and a nice game v MUC one time.

There was once a time that my perception was the NESCAC was for softies.
Well I have seen Trinity play and the East would prefer the NESCAC stay out of the playoffs.

There is just no true eastern power any more...

Oh, and now Curry needs to beat Cortland to earn your respect.  That is just not fair.  

Your all over the place.

Mel its called financial aid and Ithaca has more MA kids on the roster now than they did in 1991.  And financial aid has not dried up since the early 1990s.  Show me proof of that? Thats not an issue.  And Curry costs as much as IC does.  Even the MA state colleges are some of the most expensive in the country.  Go to any MA highschools guidence office and you will not see kids with Ithaca and Fitchburg St as similar schools.  It doesnt happen.

I never said Curry had to beat Cortland to get my respect, but they will to get others respect.  How do you think they should be looked at if they lose to Cortland 48-0?  Hell, you can fairly call IC overated today if you want dont you think?