East Region Playoff Discussion

[Jonny Utah]

I already see some banter on Twitter concerning the E8 vs. the LL.  Here's what I think we learned today:

1) Both winners of the respective conferences lost today.  Ithaca never really got their offense rolling -- the 7 points they had until desperation time was from a 91yd kickoff return.  Wesley dominated -- a Wesley team that had two losses and seemed inconsistent at times this season.  Despite the score differentials ending up somewhat differently, neither Ithaca nor Hobart really felt in control of their respective games.

2) The only team left is the team that has gone out consistently and scheduled the strongest.  Fisher basically learned how to beat good opponents and win close games, even from behind.  This is where Hobart had issues with only nine games and Utica being their spotlight OOC game.  I actually ranted about this in the preseason show on "In the HuddLLe" -- I think it comes back to haunt Hobart once Fisher got a lot of good bounces and capitalized for a 14-0 lead.  Hobart began to get desperate and could never establish their game again.

3) The effect on LL vs. E8 perceptions is pretty much what we assumed in the first place.  It's the second-place team of the E8 making strides, and I think we can point to the reasons that team consistently does so since the early 2000s.  It's why the E8 ranks above the LL in the conference rankings each year and each re-ranking.  That said, Ithaca's struggles vs. Framingham and inability to really get things going offensively at Wesley and Salisbury's odd struggles sort of lead us to a position in which you could argue relative strength at the end of this year in either direction, with an obvious bias toward the E8 with SJF still standing.  If SJF beats UMHB, then I'd reassess, but we pretty much end up this year where we thought we were in he first place.

The upcoming game between SJF and UMHB sort of lines up much like the Hobart/St. Thomas game last year.  As such, I think SJF comes in about a 24-point underdog.  Anything can happen, but the weather in Belton will most likely be decent -- and that plays to UMHB's benefit.  Great seasons Ithaca and Hobart, and good luck to SJF.

Frank did you really assume at the beginning of the year that SJF would be the 2nd best team in the E8?  They were one play away from being the 4th place team.

Hey, I think they are the best team in the E8.  Not because of their schedule though, but because they have the best players, and their coaches do a fantastic job.

You and I know that until the LL schools start to give financial aid like they did 5,10,15 years ago, the E8 is going to be a better conference for about 20 other reasons that you didn't list above.

[Frank Rossi]

Frank did you really assume at the beginning of the year that SJF would be the 2nd best team in the E8?  They were one play away from being the 4th place team.

My preseason ballot suggested, yes, they should've finished second to Salisbury.  That said, both were ranked by me.

[boobyhasgameyo]

I already see some banter on Twitter concerning the E8 vs. the LL.  Here's what I think we learned today:

1) Both winners of the respective conferences lost today.  Ithaca never really got their offense rolling -- the 7 points they had until desperation time was from a 91yd kickoff return.  Wesley dominated -- a Wesley team that had two losses and seemed inconsistent at times this season.  Despite the score differentials ending up somewhat differently, neither Ithaca nor Hobart really felt in control of their respective games.

2) The only team left is the team that has gone out consistently and scheduled the strongest.  Fisher basically learned how to beat good opponents and win close games, even from behind.  This is where Hobart had issues with only nine games and Utica being their spotlight OOC game.  I actually ranted about this in the preseason show on "In the HuddLLe" -- I think it comes back to haunt Hobart once Fisher got a lot of good bounces and capitalized for a 14-0 lead.  Hobart began to get desperate and could never establish their game again.

3) The effect on LL vs. E8 perceptions is pretty much what we assumed in the first place.  It's the second-place team of the E8 making strides, and I think we can point to the reasons that team consistently does so since the early 2000s.  It's why the E8 ranks above the LL in the conference rankings each year and each re-ranking.  That said, Ithaca's struggles vs. Framingham and inability to really get things going offensively at Wesley and Salisbury's odd struggles sort of lead us to a position in which you could argue relative strength at the end of this year in either direction, with an obvious bias toward the E8 with SJF still standing.  If SJF beats UMHB, then I'd reassess, but we pretty much end up this year where we thought we were in he first place.

The upcoming game between SJF and UMHB sort of lines up much like the Hobart/St. Thomas game last year.  As such, I think SJF comes in about a 24-point underdog.  Anything can happen, but the weather in Belton will most likely be decent -- and that plays to UMHB's benefit.  Great seasons Ithaca and Hobart, and good luck to SJF.

Frank, I think the discussion can be simplified beyond your arguments.  Most of us maintained that if Hobart were in the E8 it would be extremely extremely unlikely that they end the regular season undefeated.  I'd say after today it's hard to argue that when Fisher, who lost twice (albeit by a combined 10 points), was able to go into Geneva and shut them down.  Hobart would obviously be in the mix at the top of the conference before people start jumping down my throat.  But I wouldn't be surprised if they finished with 2 or 3 losses either.  The fact that they ran roughshod through the LL and by most accounts pulled their starters in the 4th quarter of every LL game demonstrates to me that it is a clear level below the E8.

[Upstate]

There was even the Hobart announcers getting into it during the game. Basically saying Fisher was scared to schedule Hobart during the season, unsportsmanlike to throw the ball up 24-0 in the fourth and expecting a fist fight to break about because they were doing it. Classy. 

Were they really calling out Fisher's OOC schedule?

Sorry Hobart, we all saw what happens when you actually schedule legit OOC teams from different conferences and regions.

Wesley is always looking for D3 teams to play, i do believe you chickened out of a game with them a few years ago and you hardly schedule 10 games so go cry somewhere else about scheduling.

[D3MAFAN]

There was even the Hobart announcers getting into it during the game. Basically saying Fisher was scared to schedule Hobart during the season, unsportsmanlike to throw the ball up 24-0 in the fourth and expecting a fist fight to break about because they were doing it. Classy. 

Were they really calling out Fisher's OOC schedule?

Sorry Hobart, we all saw what happens when you actually schedule legit OOC teams from different conferences and regions.

Wesley is always looking for D3 teams to play, i do believe you chickened out of a game with them a few years ago and you hardly schedule 10 games so go cry somewhere else about scheduling.

If you have an eight game or nine game schedule and are looking for opponent, don't complain that you can't find an opponent, because Wesley will play anyone anywhere, they might even play on some of those large Navy carriers, if asked.

[Frank Rossi]

There was even the Hobart announcers getting into it during the game. Basically saying Fisher was scared to schedule Hobart during the season, unsportsmanlike to throw the ball up 24-0 in the fourth and expecting a fist fight to break about because they were doing it. Classy. 

Were they really calling out Fisher's OOC schedule?

Sorry Hobart, we all saw what happens when you actually schedule legit OOC teams from different conferences and regions.

Wesley is always looking for D3 teams to play, i do believe you chickened out of a game with them a few years ago and you hardly schedule 10 games so go cry somewhere else about scheduling.

If you have an eight game or nine game schedule and are looking for opponent, don't complain that you can't find an opponent, because Wesley will play anyone anywhere, they might even play on some of those large Navy carriers, if asked.

That wouldn't work... The egos of E8 posters and Wesley posters wouldn't fit in such a confined space 

[EDIT: For the love of karma, this was a joke.  Aside from defending Ted Baker and Terry Muffley, I'm really not getting bent out of shape by today's happenings because it wasn't outside the realm and I'd be kidding myself if I suggested my views throughout the preseason and season weren't ultimately proven somewhat right concerning scheduling, the passing game questions of Hobart, and SJF's relative strength.  I'm a Liberty League guy, but I'm also a realist -- see earlier comments I made re: Linfield's question marks as the season ended and postseason began leading to an interesting scenario today.  After 19 years of this ish, you learn to take it all in stride, except for defamatory statements and unnecessary shots.  That's never appreciated by me.]

[boobyhasgameyo]

Good call with Linfield.  I thought of you specifically when I saw the halftime score. 

[Frank Rossi]

Good call with Linfield.  I thought of you specifically when I saw the halftime score.

Thanks.  I think we all knew at halftime that Linfield would make good adjustments -- it was just a question of whether or not HSC could shrink the game and make the time run out before Linfield could execute the comeback fully.  A couple bad gambles by HSC gave Linfield too much momentum.  That said, I think Linfield was exposed a bit more today early.  We were that close to what I believe would've been the first time in history that three or more two-loss teams (or worse) made it to the D3 Quarterfinals.

[umhb2001]

I think UMHB takes it all this year...

I was looking at UMHB's results this year and really they didn't blow me away.  I'm very interested to see the final score in their matchup against Rowan.  Now a team like Linfield on the other hand?  They are steamrolling teams like it is nobody's business.

How bout now?

[boobyhasgameyo]

I think UMHB takes it all this year...

I was looking at UMHB's results this year and really they didn't blow me away.  I'm very interested to see the final score in their matchup against Rowan.  Now a team like Linfield on the other hand?  They are steamrolling teams like it is nobody's business.

How bout now?

You must not have seen my post that followed that when I referenced an ultra impressive stretch by MHB.  I think you misinterpreted that post as me thinking Rowan would pull off the upset.  I didn't think that at all.  I was interested in the sense of - will they blow them out 80-0 like some of the teams this year or will it be in the 2 or 3 touchdown margin.  I thought it would be about a 3 touchdown margin.  So I guess I was wrong there.  Oh well. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

I think UMHB takes it all this year...

I was looking at UMHB's results this year and really they didn't blow me away.  I'm very interested to see the final score in their matchup against Rowan.  Now a team like Linfield on the other hand?  They are steamrolling teams like it is nobody's business.

How bout now?

You must not have seen my post that followed that when I referenced an ultra impressive stretch by MHB.  I think you misinterpreted that post as me thinking Rowan would pull off the upset.  I didn't think that at all.  I was interested in the sense of - will they blow them out 80-0 like some of the teams this year or will it be in the 2 or 3 touchdown margin.  I thought it would be about a 3 touchdown margin.  So I guess I was wrong there.  Oh well.

He may have also been referencing Linfield only beating HSC in a comeback win, 31-21.  (They were down 21-3, but obviously figured out some flaws in a team expected to have MANY flaws.)

[Jonny Utah]

Good call with Linfield.  I thought of you specifically when I saw the halftime score.

Thanks.  I think we all knew at halftime that Linfield would make good adjustments -- it was just a question of whether or not HSC could shrink the game and make the time run out before Linfield could execute the comeback fully.  A couple bad gambles by HSC gave Linfield too much momentum.  That said, I think Linfield was exposed a bit more today early.  We were that close to what I believe would've been the first time in history that three or more two-loss teams (or worse) made it to the D3 Quarterfinals.

Good call on Hobarts passing game too, although they may have faced the best pass defense in the country today, if you look at the past two weeks anyway.

[lewdogg11]

I remember getting some **** at the beginning of the year by complimenting St. John Fisher's scheduling, and saying that it would make them more battle ready for the playoffs.  A lot of people jumped down my throat saying it was dumb and smarter to just schedule weak opponents, win your conference or get in at 9-1 in a Pool C.  So now we have a little time to break this down, how do we all feel about it now???

Fisher didn't win their conference.  Lost 2 in conference games, but their schedule got them a bid, and they hit the playoffs running knowing that they could compete with very good teams.  Hobart had a weak non-conference schedule(which so many people think is the best move), went undefeated, and knew they were in trouble heading into Fisher.  Injury related or not, Hobart would have had a tough time last week.

I also feel strongly that if Fisher didn't get selected, they would have understood, but also would've known they could have done some damage in the playoffs regardless.  Earlier, everyone said it's all about 'just making the playoffs', but do those people feel the same way now?  Hobart likely feels that their undefeated regular season is now a disappointment, because they beat a sub-mediocre opponent in round 1, and got smoked by an in-region rival in round 2.  Fisher on the other hand would have felt like they had a good season if they weren't selected and played an ECAC game, feeling like they were one bad conference game away(1 they SHOULD have won) from getting to the dance.

More than ever, I stand by my thoughts from earlier in the year.  If Fisher lost to Cortland or W&J and then lost 2 conference games, there would be no gripes either.  Tough but beatable opponents are the way to go with at LEAST 1 or 2 OOC games. 

[Frank Rossi]

LD... Listen to the first 45 minutes of "In the HuddLLe" from this week.  We debate this very issue with Ted Baker, using a piece of an interview with Coach Vosburgh from 2010 that points to your own points here.

[Upstate]

Was just going through Bart's schedule can someone tell me what I'm missing about Hobart and Dickinson?

Is this some 100 year old rivalry or something?

Also still think it's funny that Hobart pulled out of a game with Wesley in 2011 only to be matched up with them in the first round!