East Region Playoff Discussion

[boobyhasgameyo]

Current system is not great but it works for the system. I think a better idea for your beloved uwp or JCU is expand the playoff field again. Not doubling it but maybe giving these "elite" teams a first round bye so we don't see a mhbu v hsu first round due to travel.
But to say uwp is deserving of a playoff bid bc they are in a tough conference(arguably the best in d3 this year) that's why they have 2 losses is what is ridiculous. Fact remains recruit better or have a better game plan and be the one to win the close games. I doubt anyone would argue saying they are not good enough to win a play off game compared to some of the other teams that make the field, still those other teams did what they were supposed to do to get into the tournament and not worry about what if situations or having a committee of people decide if they should make the tournament.
And your notion that mt union or a Hopkins would still get in but just as a pool c instead of a pool a bid just makes even less sense if your are saying the deserve to still get in, just not be a guarantee??

I don't want to argue a lot of this since expanding the field by another few teams and having some play in games was a thought I had.  But I figured the NCAA wouldn't be as down for that with the money, travel and all that.  But saying the teams in those other conferences did what they had to do on one hand and then with the other saying it's ok for conferences to assemble a league full of subpar teams because they are trying to do something that has zero to do with football like be with like-minded institutions...that to me is having your cake and eating it too. 

And I don't see why it wouldn't make sense to say to a team that if they deserve to be in, they'll ultimately be in regardless of automatic conference qualifiers.  That to me is the point of Pool C is to pick the most qualified teams in the purest form.  Pool A is the pool that doesn't accomplish that as much and is the entire point of what I'm suggesting be remedied.   

I'm going to put you in as a hard no for this proposition, along with Ski.  I'm waiting for the next person up to see if they can one up you guys on the disagreement scale.  Maybe that person will suggest I forfeit my first born for suggesting such an appalling thing.  I personally love the idea though 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Current system is not great but it works for the system. I think a better idea for your beloved uwp or JCU is expand the playoff field again. Not doubling it but maybe giving these "elite" teams a first round bye so we don't see a mhbu v hsu first round due to travel.
But to say uwp is deserving of a playoff bid bc they are in a tough conference(arguably the best in d3 this year) that's why they have 2 losses is what is ridiculous. Fact remains recruit better or have a better game plan and be the one to win the close games. I doubt anyone would argue saying they are not good enough to win a play off game compared to some of the other teams that make the field, still those other teams did what they were supposed to do to get into the tournament and not worry about what if situations or having a committee of people decide if they should make the tournament.
And your notion that mt union or a Hopkins would still get in but just as a pool c instead of a pool a bid just makes even less sense if your are saying the deserve to still get in, just not be a guarantee??

I don't want to argue a lot of this since expanding the field by another few teams and having some play in games was a thought I had.  But I figured the NCAA wouldn't be as down for that with the money, travel and all that.  But saying the teams in those other conferences did what they had to do on one hand and then with the other saying it's ok for conferences to assemble a league full of subpar teams because they are trying to do something that has zero to do with football like be with like-minded institutions...that to me is having your cake and eating it too. 

And I don't see why it wouldn't make sense to say to a team that if they deserve to be in, they'll ultimately be in regardless of automatic conference qualifiers.  That to me is the point of Pool C is to pick the most qualified teams in the purest form.  Pool A is the pool that doesn't accomplish that as much and is the entire point of what I'm suggesting be remedied.   

I'm going to put you in as a hard no for this proposition, along with Ski.  I'm waiting for the next person up to see if they can one up you guys on the disagreement scale.  Maybe that person will suggest I forfeit my first born for suggesting such an appalling thing.  I personally love the idea though 

Love the idea of forfeiting your first born??!!  Yeah, I've had days like that with my kids!

I'm sympathetic to some sort of modification (though far less drastic than what you suggest) to keep out teams that have ZERO chance of winning even a first round game, but recognize that it is a moot point.  Playoff rules are not set by 'The NCAA', but by vote of the member institutions.  And (almost by definition) athletic 'have nots' are always going to far outnumber athletic 'haves'.

[wally_wabash]

I understand this is all hypothetical and well intentioned, but part of the deal with expanding the playoffs is that you extend the playoffs for another week.  Six weeks of playoffs, ending on Christmas Eve (or the 23rd, depending on when ESPN wants to put the game on tv).  If we just forget about the cost for a second, I think it's a massive long shot that the Division's presidents are going to sign up to extend football season any longer than it already is.  And this is true if you add 4 teams or 32 teams.  This tournament isn't getting any bigger because I think football season runs as long as it is ever going to run in Division III right now. 

I think if there is going to be any significant change to the the structure of the tournament, it'll come from a decision to up the number of teams a league needs to get an AQ.  Bumping that number from seven to nine drastically changes the number of autobids (cuts it down to about half of the field).  I haven't thought a ton about whether or not there would be enough support around the division for that change.  But that sort of change would certainly have more support than extending the season (or increasing the cost of this championship). 

[Pat Coleman]

I never picked up the phone.

[boobyhasgameyo]

[ccd494]

Just sitting here getting sad for some of the worthy teams who won't make the playoffs this season...while other more undeserving squads make it via the automatic bid.  The potential exists that JCU, Platteville, St. John Fisher, Wabash won't make the field depending on how the final week pans out. 

...

It would penalize the conferences that shafted everyone else by grouping together a bunch of poor teams and stealing away a bid (shout out to the ECFCs of the world).  Put Platteville in that conference or the MASCAC and see what happens.

1.  Whining about the ECFC not being able to compete with Alfred is rich when Husson already took them down to the wire this year.

2.  Schools from other conferences have no leg to stand on when complaining about the ECFC "stealing" a bid when they wouldn't play the teams that founded that conference or let them join their conferences. Was Husson supposed to sit at home and say "Thank you for not playing or considering us for the conference, we will just be happy playing six game schedules with no postseason"?  You don't want Husson or Mt. Ida to go to the playoffs?  Invite them to join your conference and beat them on the field. Husson has shown a willingness to play anyone anywhere and I'm sure would love to challenge themselves in a better conference. They have probably reached the point where the ECFC is more restrictive than helpful.

[boobyhasgameyo]

1.  It's called an example.  I'm sure there are other conferences whose representatives regularly get taken to the woodshed but it's easy to cite ECFC because A. Proximity to me keeps them on the radar more and B. They have such classic examples of being destroyed in the playoffs.  I could have went with the ECFC rep losing 49-0 last year, losing 34-7 in 2013, 73-14 in 2012, and 62-10 in 2011.  I just chose the 60-0 loss to Alfred because it stuck in my head.  The only time I can remember their representative doing well is when Husson lost to MIT of NEFC fame in 2014. 

2.  If a team like Husson did exactly what they did this year and went undefeated in their awful conference but showed aggressiveness in their OOC by scheduling a team like Alfred and taking it to the wire...then in the setup I suggested it would be a year in which they would be considered for the playoffs.  A committeee would take that into consideration and who knows, for simplistic purposes let's say that bid that was transferred to Pool C would still end up going straight to them.  Maybe it's conference X in another region entirely that ends up truly losing their bid to one of those top 15 teams I cited before because they played in a bad conference and also didn't provide any evidence they can compete with a playoff caliber team out of conference.  I wasn't saying guarantee that a team from ECFC never make it into the field...but damn, someone from such a conference step up and find a way to better themselves on the field before automatically giving them their annual bid to be slaughtered at the alter.  Doing what Husson did is actually exactly what I would want as an end game.

[Bartman]

Personally, I would rather see a system where the top 16 teams play for a national title(nobody outside of the top 16, probably 8 can win a title), and there are 4 regional tourneys of 8 or 16 teams each producing a regional champion.If you have an automatic bid you are in, but only qualify for the Elite 16 if you are selected. I don't know whether that means the ECAC runs the East and the other regions have organizations that run their tournaments, but I hate going to Mt. Union or MHB when you are competitive in your region to get dismantled by a program that you will never compete with because it is not a priority of your educational institution. I also think this would eliminate many of the double monkey stomps that end up being so disheartening.For example, this year St. Lawrence will probably not get in, but they might win an Eastern tournament that could have some real value. It always sucks to go on the Bataan death March out West unless you are really a strong team that can stay within 2-3 touchdowns and feel good about facing the best, although accepting the inevitable final sabre slash. That means the top programs in the East the last few years can still compete when they have a really good team and have at least an outside chance in the National tourney, but more realistically can compete regularly for a regional championship every year. Husson then has a chance to compete and show everyone that the Alfred game this year was real. Just my 2 cents

[D3MAFAN]

Increasing the number of teams from 7 to 9 would be fine. That would force a good amount of teams to schedule better opponents, however leaves some of the weaker teams scheduling weaker teams. Then if everyone had 9 conference opponents, the SOS would circulate around .500 and for some of those good teams that couldn't get that tough OOC match-up, they are left out of the playoffs because that 1 team they played may go 1-9. I like the current model. I would be in favor of having bye-weeks for top seeds and the 1st round game being paid for by the school and if the school doesn't want to pay, they forfeit their spot. With that the NCAA doesn't have to spend a dime for 1st round games.

[Jonny Utah]

Current system is not great but it works for the system. I think a better idea for your beloved uwp or JCU is expand the playoff field again. Not doubling it but maybe giving these "elite" teams a first round bye so we don't see a mhbu v hsu first round due to travel.
But to say uwp is deserving of a playoff bid bc they are in a tough conference(arguably the best in d3 this year) that's why they have 2 losses is what is ridiculous. Fact remains recruit better or have a better game plan and be the one to win the close games. I doubt anyone would argue saying they are not good enough to win a play off game compared to some of the other teams that make the field, still those other teams did what they were supposed to do to get into the tournament and not worry about what if situations or having a committee of people decide if they should make the tournament.
And your notion that mt union or a Hopkins would still get in but just as a pool c instead of a pool a bid just makes even less sense if your are saying the deserve to still get in, just not be a guarantee??

I don't want to argue a lot of this since expanding the field by another few teams and having some play in games was a thought I had.  But I figured the NCAA wouldn't be as down for that with the money, travel and all that.  But saying the teams in those other conferences did what they had to do on one hand and then with the other saying it's ok for conferences to assemble a league full of subpar teams because they are trying to do something that has zero to do with football like be with like-minded institutions...that to me is having your cake and eating it too. 

And I don't see why it wouldn't make sense to say to a team that if they deserve to be in, they'll ultimately be in regardless of automatic conference qualifiers.  That to me is the point of Pool C is to pick the most qualified teams in the purest form.  Pool A is the pool that doesn't accomplish that as much and is the entire point of what I'm suggesting be remedied.   

I'm going to put you in as a hard no for this proposition, along with Ski.  I'm waiting for the next person up to see if they can one up you guys on the disagreement scale.  Maybe that person will suggest I forfeit my first born for suggesting such an appalling thing.  I personally love the idea though 

Booby I think your "system" would be too hard to administer numbers wise. 

Maybe if we  just said that 2 conferences each year aren't getting a pool A bid, and we won't tell you which conferences they are until our secret meeting on November 13th, where we will use a list of ambiguous criteria ranked in order of random importance that give each team a subjective, truncated, whole number ranking based on non conference SOS numbers that are based on top 25 wins in the last 5 weeks of the season versus conference schedules in region except for those outside a 500 mile radius and/or games versus NCAA division 2 competition.  (Exceptions would be made for phone calls made by Pat Coleman to this secret meeting committee on the night of Novermber 12th with further suggestions and input)

I think that would be a fair process.

[D3MAFAN]

Current system is not great but it works for the system. I think a better idea for your beloved uwp or JCU is expand the playoff field again. Not doubling it but maybe giving these "elite" teams a first round bye so we don't see a mhbu v hsu first round due to travel.
But to say uwp is deserving of a playoff bid bc they are in a tough conference(arguably the best in d3 this year) that's why they have 2 losses is what is ridiculous. Fact remains recruit better or have a better game plan and be the one to win the close games. I doubt anyone would argue saying they are not good enough to win a play off game compared to some of the other teams that make the field, still those other teams did what they were supposed to do to get into the tournament and not worry about what if situations or having a committee of people decide if they should make the tournament.
And your notion that mt union or a Hopkins would still get in but just as a pool c instead of a pool a bid just makes even less sense if your are saying the deserve to still get in, just not be a guarantee??

I don't want to argue a lot of this since expanding the field by another few teams and having some play in games was a thought I had.  But I figured the NCAA wouldn't be as down for that with the money, travel and all that.  But saying the teams in those other conferences did what they had to do on one hand and then with the other saying it's ok for conferences to assemble a league full of subpar teams because they are trying to do something that has zero to do with football like be with like-minded institutions...that to me is having your cake and eating it too. 

And I don't see why it wouldn't make sense to say to a team that if they deserve to be in, they'll ultimately be in regardless of automatic conference qualifiers.  That to me is the point of Pool C is to pick the most qualified teams in the purest form.  Pool A is the pool that doesn't accomplish that as much and is the entire point of what I'm suggesting be remedied.   

I'm going to put you in as a hard no for this proposition, along with Ski.  I'm waiting for the next person up to see if they can one up you guys on the disagreement scale.  Maybe that person will suggest I forfeit my first born for suggesting such an appalling thing.  I personally love the idea though 

Booby I think your "system" would be too hard to administer numbers wise. 

Maybe if we  just said that 2 conferences each year aren't getting a pool A bid, and we won't tell you which conferences they are until our secret meeting on November 13th, where we will use a list of ambiguous criteria ranked in order of random importance that give each team a subjective, truncated, whole number ranking based on non conference SOS numbers that are based on top 25 wins in the last 5 weeks of the season versus conference schedules in region except for those outside a 500 mile radius and/or games versus NCAA division 2 competition.  (Exceptions would be made for phone calls made by Pat Coleman to this secret meeting committee on the night of Novermber 12th with further suggestions and input)

I think that would be a fair process.

Do you work for ESECPN?

[d3fan142511]

As a New England Fan Supporter....and someone who has played in and follows the ECFC i have to say it is the biggest honor to play in the NCAA Tournament. Just like those 16 seeds play in March Madness ...its all about the experience. However when we got matched up with our opponent we new it was going to be a long shot but we still played and battled for the entire game and i was proud of my team and coaches for treating it like any other game no matter what the score was.

However I do see the other side and there are some great teams/hat have a better chance to go on run being left out of playoffs....With the NEWMAC being created one thing i thought of was that the 4 new england conference champion schools had a play in game to get to the NCAA's.

Each team plays 9 regular season games and then match up ECFC vs NEWMAC and MASCAC vs NEFC...the two winners then move on to the NCAA Tournament. You switch match ups each year or determine based on record.

[Frank Rossi]

Before anyone kills Booby, you might want to take a look at the D2 earned access approach, which is essentially a hybrid model in the way it plays out, generally.

[ITH radio]

This just in:

EAST   
1 Alfred 9-0 9-0
2 St. John Fisher 8-1
3 Hobart 8-1
4 Wesley 7-2
5 Stevenson 8-1 
6 Western New England 9-0 
7 Salisbury 7-2
8 Albright 7-2
9 Frostburg State 8-1
10 St. Lawrence 8-1

Looks like loser of ALF-SJF is in Pool C no matter what and SLU is locked out

[fisheralum91]

YAAAAY!