East Region Playoff Discussion

[HScoach]

This is fine and all, but I think you're begging the question:  "Why did the Committee put MUC back at the top of the East?"  Answer:  Because they assumed MUC would roll over the East Region competition, giving the overall #1 seed the easiest road to the Semifinals.  You can't have it both ways, Toph.  The point is valid that the East teams DID overperform at times compared to what even the Committee's expectations were.

I don't think the NCAA moved Mount east because they thought that would be the easiest road for MUC.  You're giving the NCAA way too much credit.  Without an undefeated in the East and 3 of them in the North, it makes for a pretty easy decision if you're trying to reward 10-0 teams.  If Cortland would have beaten Ithaca, they'd have been a very legit #1 seed.  And I think they'd have still have earned a trip to Alliance, it would have just been in the semi-finals.



I find the discussion of running up the score rather funny when we're talking about a 20 point game with 10 minutes to go in the playoffs.  Cortland had proven to be a quality opponent and the score right before half proved that they shouldn't be counted out too early.  If you want to discuss running up the score, let's talk about Oklahoma last night.  That was running up the score!   Now if Mount would have still been playing the starters in the last few minutes and throwing the ball, that be running it up too. 

[Frank Rossi]

This is fine and all, but I think you're begging the question:  "Why did the Committee put MUC back at the top of the East?"  Answer:  Because they assumed MUC would roll over the East Region competition, giving the overall #1 seed the easiest road to the Semifinals.  You can't have it both ways, Toph.  The point is valid that the East teams DID overperform at times compared to what even the Committee's expectations were.

I don't think the NCAA moved Mount east because they thought that would be the easiest road for MUC.  You're giving the NCAA way too much credit.  Without an undefeated in the East and 3 of them in the North, it makes for a pretty easy decision if you're trying to reward 10-0 teams.  If Cortland would have beaten Ithaca, they'd have been a very legit #1 seed.  And I think they'd have still have earned a trip to Alliance, it would have just been in the semi-finals.

hscoach, what I stated is pretty much a paraphrase from the Committee Chair from "In the HuddLLe" during Selection Weekend.  That's not just conjecture on my part.

[clandfan]

This is fine and all, but I think you're begging the question:  "Why did the Committee put MUC back at the top of the East?"  Answer:  Because they assumed MUC would roll over the East Region competition, giving the overall #1 seed the easiest road to the Semifinals.  You can't have it both ways, Toph.  The point is valid that the East teams DID overperform at times compared to what even the Committee's expectations were.

I don't think the NCAA moved Mount east because they thought that would be the easiest road for MUC.  You're giving the NCAA way too much credit.  Without an undefeated in the East and 3 of them in the North, it makes for a pretty easy decision if you're trying to reward 10-0 teams.  If Cortland would have beaten Ithaca, they'd have been a very legit #1 seed.  And I think they'd have still have earned a trip to Alliance, it would have just been in the semi-finals.



I find the discussion of running up the score rather funny when we're talking about a 20 point game with 10 minutes to go in the playoffs.  Cortland had proven to be a quality opponent and the score right before half proved that they shouldn't be counted out too early.  If you want to discuss running up the score, let's talk about Oklahoma last night.  That was running up the score!   Now if Mount would have still been playing the starters in the last few minutes and throwing the ball, that be running it up too. 

OK...from a Cortland fan who was there....MUC did not run up the score.  Padded Kmic stats?  maybe but even that is a tough argument to make...As a cortland fan I never felt at anytime during the game that they were disrespecting Cortland.  They ran an excellent ball control offense.  Look at the TOP...ridiculous.  43 min. to 17.   It was what it was...a monkey stomp but one which cortland had some good moments.  It was a great season.

[DanPadavona]

The only argument I have with MUC being moved East is the committee obviously overestimated the power of the North region.  Ever since Capital's short term run slowed down, the North has been lacking a true #2 powerhouse.  So without MUC, I just don't see what they had that was worthy of a championship bracket.  The top seeds were obviously overrated, and are now eliminated.  Wheaton will lose convincingly to MUC, so what was the point of moving MUC in the first place? 

The power teams are in the West and South.  MUC was the only true monster from the North.  I honestly don't see much difference between the North and East in terms of quality teams.

[Small but Slow]

Dan, I also don't see the purpose in moving Mt. Union to the East region for the playoffs.  I have a theory for the committee moving them around to play various regions to give other North region teams a chance to advance.  Prior to this year experts were saying the Tampa Bay Rays only chance to make the playoffs was for realignment, moving them out of the AL East.  If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. 

[vttanker]

I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

[Bill McCabe]

I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

vttanker,  you make a very good point.  Why does MUC have to be moved East?  Why not another team?  It would seem to me that the best team in a region should stay there.  I hope this doesn't have to do with transportation costs such as a bus ride or plane ride.

[lewdogg11]

I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

vttanker,  you make a very good point.  Why does MUC have to be moved East?  Why not another team?  It would seem to me that the best team in a region should stay there.  I hope this doesn't have to do with transportation costs such as a bus ride or plane ride.

Come on guys!  No one in the East deserved a 1 seed and Mount Union is the closest geographically.  Had Cortland or Muhlenburg won their last game of the regular season, we would not have seen Mt. Union in the East. 

Get used to it!  As long as the East doesn't produce a dominant #1 seed candidate, we will see Mt. Union or a strong 'South' team that is in the Middle Altantic Region.

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

vttanker,  you make a very good point.  Why does MUC have to be moved East?  Why not another team?  It would seem to me that the best team in a region should stay there.  I hope this doesn't have to do with transportation costs such as a bus ride or plane ride.

Geography is the Answer.  Bing, Bing, Bing.

MTU is the closest for travel.

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

Historically, the #2 team in the OAC has done very well in the tournament.  Not as much as of recent times, but most MTU fans would agree that the OAC is down this year.

ONU, Capital and JCU both have had good runs in the playoffs and there are usually 2-3 teams just below MTU that would do VERY well in other conferences (JCU, BW, Capital and ONU).

[HScoach]

I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

vttanker,  you make a very good point.  Why does MUC have to be moved East?  Why not another team?  It would seem to me that the best team in a region should stay there.  I hope this doesn't have to do with transportation costs such as a bus ride or plane ride.

Come on guys!  No one in the East deserved a 1 seed and Mount Union is the closest geographically.  Had Cortland or Muhlenburg won their last game of the regular season, we would not have seen Mt. Union in the East. 

Get used to it!  As long as the East doesn't produce a dominant #1 seed candidate, we will see Mt. Union or a strong 'South' team that is in the Middle Altantic Region.

Yup.  What he said.^

[Toph]

If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

How long have you been following D3 football?  Mount has 4 losses since the turn of the century.  It's not because the conference is weak.

2000- ONU is #2 in the OAC, wins in the first round, loses to Mount in the second.
2002- JCU is #2 in the OAC, shipped to the East, wins every one of their road games in the playoffs, only to lose to Mount Union in the semis.
2003- BW is #2 in the OAC, wins their first round game 54-32, loses to Wheaton 16-12, Wheaton loses to Mount in the next round.
2005- Capital is #2 in the OAC, advances to the quarterfinals before losing to...you guessed it, Mount Union
2006- Capital is #2 in the OAC, advances to the quarterfinals before losing to...I'll let you figure it out
2008- Otterbein is #2 in the OAC, loses in first round

I'd say that's a pretty good track record.

[gordonmann]

You forgot last year, not that it hurts your argument.

2007 - Capital is #2 in the OAC, loses in first round to eventual champion UW-Whitewater

[lewdogg11]

If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

How long have you been following D3 football?  Mount has 4 losses since the turn of the century.  It's not because the conference is weak.

2000- ONU is #2 in the OAC, wins in the first round, loses to Mount in the second.
2002- JCU is #2 in the OAC, shipped to the East, wins every one of their road games in the playoffs, only to lose to Mount Union in the semis.
2003- BW is #2 in the OAC, wins their first round game 54-32, loses to Wheaton 16-12, Wheaton loses to Mount in the next round.
2005- Capital is #2 in the OAC, advances to the quarterfinals before losing to...you guessed it, Mount Union
2006- Capital is #2 in the OAC, advances to the quarterfinals before losing to...I'll let you figure it out
2008- Otterbein is #2 in the OAC, loses in first round

I'd say that's a pretty good track record.

Throw the John Carroll season out the window and everything else is pointless to me.  All it tells me is the North sucks, and usually there is another decent OAC team that is better than other competition, but no comparison to MUC.  I think Mount Union has swayed everyone's thoughts of how strong the North is because they are so dominant.  There are more teams in the East than anywhere, yet we always get teams shipped in because there is more parity, where as in the North, they play candy ass schedules, but the 10-0, 9-1 teams look so impressive to the committee because that is where MUC lives.

[DanPadavona]

Dan, I also don't see the purpose in moving Mt. Union to the East region for the playoffs.  I have a theory for the committee moving them around to play various regions to give other North region teams a chance to advance.  Prior to this year experts were saying the Tampa Bay Rays only chance to make the playoffs was for realignment, moving them out of the AL East.  If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. 

Now you are talking my ballgame.   8)  As a Rays fan, 2008 was a dream season.  And I wouldn't have it any other way than playing the Yankees and Red Sox.