East Region Playoff Discussion

[DanPadavona]

It seems a lot more common at the D3 level, Bombers.  I don't have an explanation for it.

The most amazing run I witnessed was Hobart lacrosse in D3.  They won every D3 lacrosse title in history until their final season against Nazareth.  And since then, Salisbury has taken the reigns.

[XREDDRAGON77]

Cortland has had 3 straight NC appearances in Lacrosse.  Just thought I'd chime in as it was in the alumni paper I got in the mail today.

[Lyco80]

 Here's my concern I guess with D-III...it's not so much the Top tier teams against the lower teir teams, although there are a lot of unseemly blowouts at our level.

The thing that worries me is that the VERY elite teams (MUC, UWW, etc.) just don't lose, even to other great teams. Where are the upsets? MUC has had basically a half of one decent challenge. They're in the national semis and up 31-10 at the half? And look at the stats: Muc has 356 total yards, 178 rushing and 178 passing. They're averaging 8 yards a rush and 10 yards per pass. And this against one of the best teams in the game?

Last season, they weren't even challenged untill the NC game. Whitewater's had some close ones, but again, where are the upsets of the truly elite teams? Does Curry beating Ithaca in the playoffs even matter in the larger scale with an MUC waiting in the wings?

I really hope MHB pulls off the win (They're up 7-5 now). The same NC game four years in a row? Here's a few questions:

1) Is that good for D-3? I'm not blaming anyone, just asking an honest question. This is the only game the national audience sees. Is it good to see the same teams again and again?

2) Does it say more about the MUC's and UWW's or the rest of the teams? Does it create an idea that, with the exception of 3-4 teams, they're all just playing for pride, because no-one's good enough to crash the party? I know MUC is sort of a unique case, but I mean, there's almost nothing quite like these guys in sport. Not only the sheer number of victories, but the amount of their wins. And it's year after year. Now you've got a mini-dynasty in UWW. Even back when you had IC, Augustana, Wittenberg winning back in the day, there was nothing like this aura of unbeatableness (Yes I made that up)

It'd be interesting to see some statistical analysis of the amount of upsets in D3 football. How many times this decade has a Top 10 team lost to a lower ranked team? To an unranked team? How many different teams do we see in the "Final 4", the NC game? I'd be very interested to see it
[/quote]

I share your concern for the competition and have a similar observation to add.  When Lycoming played the first time for the NC they lost in OT in a close game.  The second time they were steamrolled by MUC in a game that was only close in the first quarter.  Here is an anecdote from that NC game.  One of the stars of the Lycoming O-line was on the opening kickoff, all pumped up from the locker room and the pregame hype.  He tore off down the field looking to hit someone and gave the first guy he saw his best shot - the guy just laughed at him.  He told me he knew they were doomed from that moment on.

How did D III change so radically in 7 years?  The 1997 Lycoming team was a group of studs that during their four years never lost a regular season game in the MAC and won the conference four years in a row.  Yet they got smoked by MUC. 

My point is not sour grapes - I am long over that - it is about parity.

What we are witnessing, particularly with MUC, is something odd.  It reminds me somewhat of UCLA's hold on basketball years ago. 

I have no solutions but share the same thoughts as previously contributed.

And please, do not bother to write some mindless tripe about how they will be on top until someone knocks them off.  That is so tired.

There must be something systemically aligned that permits this sort of dynasty besides coaching.

The question I think that is relevant is does this hurt the national D III program?  Can anything be done to alter the current situation?

Call me a Lutes fan!

ATB

[Bombers798891]

I share your concern for the competition and have a similar observation to add.  When Lycoming played the first time for the NC they lost in OT in a close game.  The second time they were steamrolled by MUC in a game that was only close in the first quarter.  Here is an anecdote from that NC game.  One of the stars of the Lycoming O-line was on the opening kickoff, all pumped up from the locker room and the pregame hype.  He tore off down the field looking to hit someone and gave the first guy he saw his best shot - the guy just laughed at him.  He told me he knew they were doomed from that moment on.

How did D III change so radically in 7 years?  The 1997 Lycoming team was a group of studs that during their four years never a lost regular season game in the MAC and won the conference four years in a row.  Yet they got smoked by MUC. 

My point is not sour grapes - I am long over that - it is about parity.

What we are witnessing, particularly with MUC, is something odd.  It reminds me somewhat of UCLA's hold on basketball years ago. 

I have no solutions but share the same thoughts as previously contributed.

And please, do not bother to write some mindless tripe about how they will be on top until someone knocks them off.  That is so tired.

There must be something systemically aligned that permits this sort of dynasty besides coaching.

The question I think that is relevant is does this hurt the national D III program?  Can anything be done to alter the current situation?

Call me a Lutes fan!

ATB

Well, I for one, said that I didn't think the NCAA did anyone favors by moving MUC to an easier region, although I suspect it didn't matter much in the end.

Let me be clear: MUC and UWW deserve all the success they've achieved and will continue to achieve. They're well run/coached programs and are getting the benefits. This is not to call them out. This is simpy to foster some intelligent commentary on an unintentional consequence of the current state D-III football

Division III sports always fly under the radar, such is the nature of the beast. But, they do get one chance a year to share the national spotlight, in the Stagg Bowl. As we on these boards always know, there are a great number of excellent teams and players in the nation. And it's a shame that none of them get national attention. It's a shame that these other teams can't break through. Look at a guy like Pierre Garcon. He's free to do whatever he wants, and obviously, the move to MUC paid off for his career, so in a sense, more power to him. That being said, it would have been nice to see him stay at the Wick and see what he could have done for that program instead of being just yet another stud at MUC. Again, no-one's blaming anyone, just stating an opinion.

Some of it is institutional. Not all schools place the same emphasis on football that an MUC/UW-W do. Some of it is geographical. Certain states and areas of the country have greater football talent in the local high schools and such, the colleges have more ground to work with. The NY Times article on Kimic is a geat example of that Some could be economical. And of course, it's a self-fullfilling prophecy. Great teams attract the best players, which keeps them great

I don't really think there's a lot anyone can do about it. My question would be this: What's responsible for the meteoric rise? Why now is MUC/UW-W getting such unstoppable players? I'm sure some of it is coaching etc, but is that really all? MUC is going for what, their 10th NC in 14 seasons? What's their regular season record in that span?

It seems like the only team to get in their way in UW-W, and now they're so good it's like the scene in "Roadhouse" where Patrick Swayze is convincing Kelly Lynch he can save the town from their unstoppable overlord, Brad Wesley. She asks him: "Yes, but who's going to save the town from you?"

Again, to make sure I'm not misunderstood: Good for MUC and UW-W for continuing to win constantly. But I do think it would help the game if other teams were successful.

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

If you want to see a dynasty, look at Kenyon Swimming:

The Lords have won the past 29 consecutive Division III national championships

[Bombers798891]

If you want to see a dynasty, look at Kenyon Swimming:

The Lords have won the past 29 consecutive Division III national championships

Alright, sweet. Good find man. So MUC's not the only unstoppable force out there.

Again, not trying to be critical of MUC, although my Karma rating would seem to indicate people think I am being that way. Just curious as to the thoughts of people

[Frank Rossi]

If you want to see a dynasty, look at Kenyon Swimming:

The Lords have won the past 29 consecutive Division III national championships

They've been drowning the competition.

[Lyco80]

Or, maybe just putting a few discreet sinkers in their opponents' speedos when their backs were turned?

ATB

[hammond5]

***NJAC--TCNJ Lions' football***

Players' defend gutsy fourth-down calls in the aftermath of the Lions' 1st loss

http://tcnjlionsfootball.com/2009/10/06/players/

NCAA attendance reports suggest Lions' fan base disinterested in TCNJ football

http://tcnjlionsfootball.com/2009/10/06/attendance/

[Frank Rossi]

New Regional Rankings:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/04/ncaa-regional-rankings-take-2/

[SJFF82]

New Regional Rankings:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/04/ncaa-regional-rankings-take-2/

Seeing the West region with powerhouses like St Johns, Linfield and three time consecutive Stagg Bowl participant UWW as 1,2 and 3 respectively, suddenly makes me completely change my perspective of whether the East Region teams are deserving of a #1 seed in the East Region play-off bracket when the East lines up Alfred, Albright and DVC.

Its like putting Roger Clemens, Mike Mussina and Andy Pettite against....well, you get the point.

[pg04]

I think this is the point that we've been trying to make all along. 

[Ralph Turner]

Fron the West Region Playoff Board...

Best guess for "west" region- with the assumption that UWW moves "North."

1. SJU
2. Central
3. Linfield
4. Monmouth
5. UST
6. Cal Lu
7. Coe
8. Nathcon AQ

North:

1. UWW
2. Wittenberg
3. Mount St. Joseph
4. Case Western Reserve
5. Illinois Wesleyan
6. Wabash
7. Trine
8. Otterbein

That leaves 2 Pool C bids...UMHB and someone from the East.

MUC has been moved "East".

I will offer this bracket for the South.

SOUTH REGION
1. Wesley                        Pool B
2. Hampden-Sydney ODAC
3. Thomas More Pres AC  (Thomas More beats HCAC Pool A MSJ on Nov 14th and moves into #2 seed.)
4. Huntingdon Pool B
5. Mississippi College  ASC
6. Mary Hardin-Baylor Pool C
7. Centre 7-1 7-1  SCAC
8. North Carolina Wesleyan   USA South

#1 Wesley vs #8 NCWC
#4 Huntingdon vs #5 Miss College

#2 TMC versus #7 Centre,
#3 HSC versus #6 UMHB


Dickinson (or JHU or F&M)  CC Pool A  moved east.

[Ralph Turner]

I have these 8 slots left.

#1 MUC

#8 Dickinson (or F&M or JHU)

E8, NJAC, MAC, LL, NEFC and a Pool C bid.

[theoriginalupstate]

Best case scenario for the East Region...

1.) MUC 10-0 (Pool A, OAC)
2.) AU 9-0 (Pool A, E8)
3.) DVC 9-1 (Pool A, MAC)
4.) Kean 9-1 (Pool A, NJAC)
5.) Albright 9-1 (Pool C, MAC)
6.) Springfield 8-1 (Pool C, E8)
7.) Curry 9-2 (Pool A, NEFC)
8.) Union 8-2 (Pool A, LL)