East Region Playoff Discussion

[dewcrew88]

Tgp: that's probably as good of a bracket as I've seen. The one thing I see is that union vs Alfred matchup switching. If union beats susq and goes undefeated in the LL they have to get the 3 seed IMO.

[labart96]

Tgp: that's probably as good of a bracket as I've seen. The one thing I see is that union vs Alfred matchup switching. If union beats susq and goes undefeated in the LL they have to get the 3 seed IMO.

Good point - I've fixed it on the prior page.  k+

[pg04]

Tgp: that's probably as good of a bracket as I've seen. The one thing I see is that union vs Alfred matchup switching. If union beats susq and goes undefeated in the LL they have to get the 3 seed IMO.

At first I was going to vehemently disagree that Union should be ahead of Alfred...  But yeah, I think you're right.  Especially if you compare their matchups with Ithaca... 

[labart96]

Commentary from the CC board re the likelihood of two CC teams making it to the dance, still I would think a co-champion of a league would make the NCAAs (esp at 9-1, Hobart has made it in as a Pool C/co-league champ, but Bart has a decent record in first round games...), but I could be wrong:

CC Unfortunately, I think  if Dickinson wins this week against Ursinus and finishes at 9-1 they will be looking at the ECAC playoffs along with F & M if they finish 8-2. In my opinion, the winner of the Albright vs LVC game will probably get in as the second team from the MAC. The CC champ needs to win at least a first round game in the NCAA's to give the conference some future credibility. Ask Muledaddy his thoughts on the subject. The Mules were a very good team the past few seasons but had to play Wesley in the first round and for whatever reason, they did not match up well with them. If Muhlenberg played any other team  from the South region, other than Wesley I believe they win. It hurts the CC's reputation that Hopkins got beat by Delaware Valley earlier this year. In many people's minds, the MAC is stronger than the CC. I am not so sure. The CC has gotten stronger from top to bottom and if there were a MAC vs CC challenge, I'd pick the CC to come out on top. The problem you have is that you will never have a team from the CC that can make it to Salem. The entrance requirements, tuition and other factors contribute to that reality. If a CC team could win two rounds of the playoffs, it would be a successful year in my opinion.

[BTEXPRESS]

TGP, Do I think Dickinson deserves to get into the NCAA playoffs, absolutely. They have a high powered offense and their only loss was to Johns Hopkins when their All American wide receiver, Pat O Connor was out hurt with a bad MCL. He returned to the field this past week. I am just not sure how the selection committee feels about the Centennial Conference's past playoff performance. I hope you are right and the Red Devils do get a Pool C bid.

[labart96]

TGP, Do I think Dickinson deserves to get into the NCAA playoffs, absolutely. They have a high powered offense and their only loss was to Johns Hopkins when their All American wide receiver, Pat O Connor was out hurt with a bad MCL. He returned to the field this past week. I am just not sure how the selection committee feels about the Centennial Conference's past playoff performance. I hope you are right and the Red Devils do get a Pool C bid.

A 9-1 league co-champ would seem qualified IMO but that's up to the Committee

[Mr. Ypsi]

Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 

I saw the discussion...but that doesn't mean I agree with it.  I just think that it's bad form.  If you keep sending over Mount Union to the East...how do we necessarily know that the East is the weakest bracket?  Afterall...hardly anyone ever beats MUC...so to simply say we should beat MUC to get to the Final 4 is kind of a stupid arguement.

MUC is only 20-something miles from Pennsylvania.  We in the 'North' have had to deal with them for all but a couple of years - it's time you guys step up and take your turn!

[Besides, in 2007 when MUC went 'East", UWW replaced them in the 'North' - we were grateful for the change, until UWW won the Stagg (I believe they call that 'out of the frying pan, into the fire' ).  Most speculation is that the 'North' will again get UWW instead of MUC, in a year when HScoach and other MUC experts think UWW may be the stronger team. ]

[Ralph Turner]

Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 

I saw the discussion...but that doesn't mean I agree with it.  I just think that it's bad form.  If you keep sending over Mount Union to the East...how do we necessarily know that the East is the weakest bracket?  Afterall...hardly anyone ever beats MUC...so to simply say we should beat MUC to get to the Final 4 is kind of a stupid arguement.

MUC is only 20-something miles from Pennsylvania.  We in the 'North' have had to deal with them for all but a couple of years - it's time you guys step up and take your turn!

[Besides, in 2007 when MUC went 'East", UWW replaced them in the 'North' - we were grateful for the change, until UWW won the Stagg (I believe they call that 'out of the frying pan, into the fire' ).  Most speculation is that the 'North' will again get UWW instead of MUC, in a year when HScoach and other MUC experts think UWW may be the stronger team. ]

And the 2002 John Carroll team was sent as a Pool C bid #7 seed to the "East Region" and beat Hobart, Muhlenberg and Brockport State.  This is not a new occurrence.

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm

[Mr. Ypsi]

Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 

I saw the discussion...but that doesn't mean I agree with it.  I just think that it's bad form.  If you keep sending over Mount Union to the East...how do we necessarily know that the East is the weakest bracket?  Afterall...hardly anyone ever beats MUC...so to simply say we should beat MUC to get to the Final 4 is kind of a stupid arguement.

MUC is only 20-something miles from Pennsylvania.  We in the 'North' have had to deal with them for all but a couple of years - it's time you guys step up and take your turn!

[Besides, in 2007 when MUC went 'East", UWW replaced them in the 'North' - we were grateful for the change, until UWW won the Stagg (I believe they call that 'out of the frying pan, into the fire' ).  Most speculation is that the 'North' will again get UWW instead of MUC, in a year when HScoach and other MUC experts think UWW may be the stronger team. ]

And the 2002 John Carroll team was sent as a Pool C bid #7 seed to the "East Region" and beat Hobart, Muhlenberg and Brockport State.  This is not a new occurrence.

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm

Yeah, and last year, the ONLY year that the 'North' had neither Mount Union (since before they became MOUNT UNION) or UWW, Pool C bid #7 seed Wheaton (of the CCIW) won the 'North' (inevitably losing in the semis to 'you-know-who').

[labart96]

Man, that JC 02 reference brings back bad memories. 

Hobart played so terribly in that game it wasn't funny.  I am not saying that JCU wasn't the better team, but that outcome really didn't reflect the quality of that particular Bart squad.

[pg04]

Man, that JC 02 reference brings back bad memories. 

Hobart played so terribly in that game it wasn't funny.  I am not saying that JCU wasn't the better team, but that outcome really didn't reflect the quality of that particular Bart squad.

As did the Brockport team...

[Yanks 99]

Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 

I saw the discussion...but that doesn't mean I agree with it.  I just think that it's bad form.  If you keep sending over Mount Union to the East...how do we necessarily know that the East is the weakest bracket?  Afterall...hardly anyone ever beats MUC...so to simply say we should beat MUC to get to the Final 4 is kind of a stupid arguement.

MUC is only 20-something miles from Pennsylvania.  We in the 'North' have had to deal with them for all but a couple of years - it's time you guys step up and take your turn!

[Besides, in 2007 when MUC went 'East", UWW replaced them in the 'North' - we were grateful for the change, until UWW won the Stagg (I believe they call that 'out of the frying pan, into the fire' ).  Most speculation is that the 'North' will again get UWW instead of MUC, in a year when HScoach and other MUC experts think UWW may be the stronger team. ]

And the 2002 John Carroll team was sent as a Pool C bid #7 seed to the "East Region" and beat Hobart, Muhlenberg and Brockport State.  This is not a new occurrence.

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm

A game 7 years ago should have no impact for this year.  Great story...but irrelevent to the discussion.  Besides...who cares if you have to "deal" with MUC in the regular season (as no one seems to get dinged for losing to them) if they get shipped to another region and you won't see them again until the semis or finals.

[Frank Rossi]

Ok - here's a SWAG of the East, I mean MUC, bracket (and "seeds"):

8 Pool C (LVC) - going with Leb Val with a 9-1 record and only ~310 mile trip to Alliance, OH

vs.

1 MUC ODAC Champ - NCAA will follow same pattern, nuff said

5 NEFC Champ (Curry) - like the Colonels over the Maine Maritime.  That loss to Bridgewater earlier in the season is the Red Herring IMO

vs.

4 NJAC Champ (Kean) - I like Kean to beat MSU this weekend and host a first round game.   Kean will likely be "seeded lower" to eliminate the possibility of a re-match against DVC in Round 2 (DVC beat the Cougs 30-17 in Wk 2).  That said I could easily see Union or Alfred hosting Curry (Alfred maybe less likely given the mileage from Milton to Alfred is 440).  

Assuming both MUC and Kean win - Round 2 is only a ~415 mile trip from Union, NJ to Alliance on the I-80.

6 E8 Champ (Alfred) - I like the Saxons over Utica and they hold a head-to-head tie-breaker over SJFC (note - I don't know exact E8 rulebook, so this is a guess).  
vs.

3 LL Champ (Union) - I like the "Dutchies on the leff hand side" to prevail at home vs Susquatch and be "rewarded" for an undefeated league record with a home game.  Trip from Alfred to Shocktown is about 270 miles and would match up "rival conferences", "battle for Upstate NY", etc

7 Pool C (Dickinson) - This one is anyone's guess but I am going with Dickinson if they win out (and finish 9-1 and would be co-Champs of the CC, but) if JHU wins out, the Red Devils would lose a Pool A due to a head-to-head tiebreaker with JHU - once again note I am not a CC rulebook expert.  JHU has already played and lost to DVC and Carlisle, PA (Dickinson's home base) is a short 132 miles from Doylestown, PA.

vs.

2 DVC MAC Champ - The Aggies, clearly the best "eastern" team (from the most consistent/"best" conference this season) in the bracket, get a good shot to advance to the national quarterfinals and the winner of the Union (216 miles) vs. Alfred (292) game is not too far away.

TGP -

I have to disagree with your seedings.  Just because teams are Pool C teams does not mean they will be seeded below conference champions.  In fact, this year I'd wager that the East will see some elevated Pool C seedings because of the relative strength of conference champions we'll be seeing.  Kean, Curry, Alfred and Albright have better records and better quality of losses this season than Union by most people's standards.  Also, the Salisbury game will not completely be factored out of the equation.  The best Union stands to receive, should the team beat Susquehanna on Saturday, is a 7 seed under current circumstances.  This is verified by last week's East Region Rankings.

[EDIT: Also, distances in rounds past the First Round are irrelevant.  There is no flight restriction in further rounds, meaning that the distances at that point are not in play when the seedings are being made.]

[gordonmann]

A couple notes:

* The NCAA has been willing to pair non-conference opponents who played each other earlier in the year in the first round.  If Del Val and Kean both win, I think they both get to host a game anyway.  But if Del Val slips up, a trip back to Union, NJ isn't out of the question.  Or a rematch between DVC and JHU could happen.

* If you want to assess Dickinson's chance as a Pool C candidate, remember the way the process works.  The regional committees forward their best Pool C candidate for consideration with the best Pool C candidates from the other regions.  We'll see what the new regional rankings bring, but it looks like Dickinson is second in line behind Mary Hardin-Baylor.  If Hampden-Sydney loses the AQ, the Red Devils could slip to third.

[bigdvs]

So Frank more like,

1)Mt Union
2)Del Val
3)Kean
4)Curry
5)Alfred
6)Dickinson
7)Union
8)Leb Val

actually from what I understand that almost makes the most sense at this point right?