East Region Playoff Discussion

[Frank Rossi]

I apologize to K-Mack if that was the context -- I don't get to read all the boards here because of my other duties.  However, the discussion I provided concerning intermixing of regions is unchanged and was what I was focusing on more in my post.

[union89]

I'd heartily disagree with K-Mack's brackets here.  There's gotta be a better way to deal with the East's lacking of bracket fillers than to create a three-bracket amalgamation since the two brackets he's showing all seem to contain East, South and North teams mixed together. 

I think it's overthinking the process -- The North and South have too many teams while the East does not have enough.  The East likely has six teams.  The North team named Mount Union comes over, leaving one slot.  Some North teams are geographic fits with the West Bracket -- less so than the South.  So the overage in the North can be dealt with in the West if any overage exists.  If the South has a ninth team, then one team can shift up into the "East" bracket to complete it. 

I think K-Mack's brackets take the "distance doesn't matter in the 2nd and 3rd rounds" too far.  The NCAA still looks at Division III as more of a regional system at the bracketing level -- the problem is that the NCAA wants to ensure that the top four teams get #1 seeds (unless geographically impossible to pull off) and will work the other teams around those seeds when possible.  Then, regionalization is key to at least keep the travel scenarios sensible.  Yes, there may be a flight that occurs because of a 2nd or 3rd round situation where the teams just happen to be too far (there is not regulation per se against this).  However, I think the NCAA would frown upon being blatant about intermixing regions to THAT degree.

The reason I say this is that there is a balance between Regions and number of Pool A bids per region.  The North, West and South each have 6 Pool A bids, while the East has 5.  If this ever became out of balance because of new conferences taking new Pool A bids (or the disbandment of current Pool A conferences), I'd guess that the "Regions" would be shifted accordingly. 

Long story short -- I think the regional nature of things is still intact to a degree without the original rigidity we saw when the fields were first expanded in the 90s.  That's why I have trouble with the mixing up of teams K-Mack did.  However, we'll see for sure on Sunday what happens...

frank not that kmack needs defending but  some people are taking his brackets out of context....did anyone read the post he did when he put these brackets out?  here is a snippet of the post...


Just for fun, since the Pool C thread seems to be doubling as this year's playoff speculation thread, I'm going to make a field of 32 with matchups I could potentially see. I don't plan to spend more than two minutes thinking about this, I just want to throw something out there that might or (more likely) might not happen.

Feel free to change one Week 11 result, one Pool C selection or both, or just re-mix and match the bracket in a way you potentially see it falling.


did anyone else read he didnt spend more than 2 minutes thinking about this? cut the guy some slack...some people are taking this bracket as the gospel and not realizing he just threw  a quick bracket  out there  WITHOUT  taking more than 2 minutes to think about it...come on peeps take it easy

PBR,
I agree.  I almost jumped into the fray, but figured I may want to see what the original context was prior to inserting foot into mouth.  I was having difficulty even differentiating what would be considered an East, North or South driven grouping in K-Mack's scenerio.

[dlippiel]

Here is K-Mack's first stab at where the East teams will land (from the Pool C board):

Okay, here's a hastily assembled suggestion:

1 MUC
8 Union

4 Thomas More
5 Alfred

3 Case Western Reserve
6 MSJ

2 Wittenberg
7 Trine
------------
1 Wesley
7 LV/Albright

3 H-SC
8 NCWC/Averett

4 Kean
5 Curry

2 Del Val
6 Johns Hopkins

Listen, dlip has been critical of the U and the LL as a whole here in 09. Yet the ****in NEFC winner getting a seed 3 spots higher than the ****in LL winner seems ****in ludicrous to dlip. It better be about ****in mileage because it sure as **** isn't about strength of conference.

So you're complaining about Curry being a #5 seed in a hypothetical "South" bracket?

Good call Upstate, dlip didn't look hard enough at the post and regional/Bracket set-up. He ****ed up with foot in mouth here, his bad .

[02 Warhawk]

We've heard that before...

While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.

Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.

I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."

Some team will step up... maybe U Dub Dub.

Almost all Mount folks, myself included, feel that Mount will be hard pressed to keep up with Whitewater this season.  UWW is absolutely loaded with 21 of 22 starters back from last year's Stagg.    Anything short of national championship should be considered a major upset for UWW this season.

I don't buy it...you can't plead underdog when you are 146-5 over the past 10+ seasons...

MUC can "plead" anything they want at 146-5 over the past 10 seasons...


On behalf of the Cardinals, if by some miracle they play MUC in the NCAA this year....I enter a plea of "No Contest".

Hahaha...HScoach may be the only guy in the past ten years to call MUC an underdog...

I understand how foriegn that may sound to an outsider, but Mount hasn't always the best team on paper.  MUC was an underdog to Whitewater in 2005.   UWW had just beaten defending champion Linfield on the road and MUC had lost to Ohio Northern in the regular season.

that might be a stretch...

[Frank Rossi]

Final Regional Rankings that we'll get to see publicly are now available:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/

Springfield does not fall far and remains above Union and Maine Maritime, which both stay at #10 and #9 respectively.  Interesting set of rankings.

[dlippiel]

Final Regional Rankings that we'll get to see publicly are now available:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/

Springfield does not fall far and remains above Union and Maine Maritime, which both stay at #10 and #9 respectively.  Interesting set of rankings.

Now here is where dlip will bitch Upstate!

[theoriginalupstate]

Final Regional Rankings that we'll get to see publicly are now available:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/

Springfield does not fall far and remains above Union and Maine Maritime, which both stay at #10 and #9 respectively.  Interesting set of rankings.

Now here is where dlip will bitch Upstate!

And Upstate's not going to say anything this time...

[AUKaz00]

And a potential bracket from the Daily Dose for further discussion:

1. Mount Union
2. Delaware Valley
3. Alfred
4. NJAC winner
5. Lebanon Valley/Albright winner (Pool C)
6. NEFC winner
7. LL winner
8. Johns Hopkins

[theoriginalupstate]

And a potential bracket from the Daily Dose for further discussion:

1. Mount Union
2. Delaware Valley
3. Alfred
4. NJAC winner
5. Lebanon Valley/Albright winner (Pool C)
6. NEFC winner
7. LL winner
8. Johns Hopkins

Flip the 3 and 4 seeds and I'd think that looks reasonable...

The Kean/Montclair winner could leapfrog AU...

[Yanks 99]

We've heard that before...

While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.

Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.

I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."

Some team will step up... maybe U Dub Dub.

Almost all Mount folks, myself included, feel that Mount will be hard pressed to keep up with Whitewater this season.  UWW is absolutely loaded with 21 of 22 starters back from last year's Stagg.    Anything short of national championship should be considered a major upset for UWW this season.

I don't buy it...you can't plead underdog when you are 146-5 over the past 10+ seasons...

MUC can "plead" anything they want at 146-5 over the past 10 seasons...


On behalf of the Cardinals, if by some miracle they play MUC in the NCAA this year....I enter a plea of "No Contest".

Hahaha...HScoach may be the only guy in the past ten years to call MUC an underdog...

I understand how foriegn that may sound to an outsider, but Mount hasn't always the best team on paper.  MUC was an underdog to Whitewater in 2005.   UWW had just beaten defending champion Linfield on the road and MUC had lost to Ohio Northern in the regular season.

that might be a stretch...

That is not a stretch...that is crazy.  When you are 146-5...you are never the underdog...not when you are six years deep into that run.

[AUKaz00]

And a potential bracket from the Daily Dose for further discussion:

1. Mount Union
2. Delaware Valley
3. Alfred
4. NJAC winner
5. Lebanon Valley/Albright winner (Pool C)
6. NEFC winner
7. LL winner
8. Johns Hopkins

Flip the 3 and 4 seeds and I'd think that looks reasonable...

The Kean/Montclair winner could leapfrog AU...

I'm thinking the only reason that Alfred is ahead of those teams is due to current SoS.  Doing a quick inclusion of the teams each will play this Saterday (and not factoring in the changes from the games played by the teams faced earlier in the season by those three teams) I think Kean would jump Alfred on SoS with a win, but Montclair would not.

Kean is currently at .489 OWP and adding in Montclair's 8-1 record would move them to about .529, Montclair will move from .455 to .498 and Alfred will drop from .516 to .508 when accounting for Utica's 4-5 record.  So, if SoS is used todifferentiate the one loss teams, Alfred fans will be rooting for Montclair to win the NJAC.

Also, if Maine Maritime wins, then they would have to play the NJAC winner since I think Kean, Montclair and Union are the only teams within 500 miles of Castine and Union will likely not get a home game due to their current position in the regional rankings (I guess Union could travel to Maine if the committe saw fit).

[lewdogg11]

And a potential bracket from the Daily Dose for further discussion:

1. Mount Union
2. Delaware Valley
3. Alfred
4. NJAC winner
5. Lebanon Valley/Albright winner (Pool C)
6. NEFC winner
7. LL winner
8. Johns Hopkins

Flip the 3 and 4 seeds and I'd think that looks reasonable...

The Kean/Montclair winner could leapfrog AU...

I'm thinking the only reason that Alfred is ahead of those teams is due to current SoS.  Doing a quick inclusion of the teams each will play this Saterday (and not factoring in the changes from the games played by the teams faced earlier in the season by those three teams) I think Kean would jump Alfred on SoS with a win, but Montclair would not.

Kean is currently at .489 OWP and adding in Montclair's 8-1 record would move them to about .529, Montclair will move from .455 to .498 and Alfred will drop from .516 to .508 when accounting for Utica's 4-5 record.  So, if SoS is used todifferentiate the one loss teams, Alfred fans will be rooting for Montclair to win the NJAC.

Also, if Maine Maritime wins, then they would have to play the NJAC winner since I think Kean, Montclair and Union are the only teams within 500 miles of Castine and Union will likely not get a home game due to their current position in the regional rankings (I guess Union could travel to Maine if the committe saw fit).

I like the idea of Hopkins going to MUC.  It's about 350 miles.  If they are going to import 2 teams, like last year, let them battle it out in round 1.  I think it's fair to the 'East' teams if they do that.

[dlippiel]

And a potential bracket from the Daily Dose for further discussion:

1. Mount Union
2. Delaware Valley
3. Alfred
4. NJAC winner
5. Lebanon Valley/Albright winner (Pool C)
6. NEFC winner
7. LL winner
8. Johns Hopkins

Flip the 3 and 4 seeds and I'd think that looks reasonable...

The Kean/Montclair winner could leapfrog AU...

I'm thinking the only reason that Alfred is ahead of those teams is due to current SoS.  Doing a quick inclusion of the teams each will play this Saterday (and not factoring in the changes from the games played by the teams faced earlier in the season by those three teams) I think Kean would jump Alfred on SoS with a win, but Montclair would not.

Kean is currently at .489 OWP and adding in Montclair's 8-1 record would move them to about .529, Montclair will move from .455 to .498 and Alfred will drop from .516 to .508 when accounting for Utica's 4-5 record.  So, if SoS is used todifferentiate the one loss teams, Alfred fans will be rooting for Montclair to win the NJAC.

Also, if Maine Maritime wins, then they would have to play the NJAC winner since I think Kean, Montclair and Union are the only teams within 500 miles of Castine and Union will likely not get a home game due to their current position in the regional rankings (I guess Union could travel to Maine if the committe saw fit).

I like the idea of Hopkins going to MUC.  It's about 350 miles.  If they are going to import 2 teams, like last year, let them battle it out in round 1.  I think it's fair to the 'East' teams if they do that.

Absolutely Terd, say it again!

[dlippiel]

U89 said it best, if the brackets are going to get the top #4 teams as the top four seeds, like other tournaments, than it should be in bold ****ing print with no room for debate. This current system leaves a lot of room for debate and speculation regarding seeding, brackets, importation, and the possible regionalism of the brackets. Systems like this, that leave room for debate and speculation, deserve to be attacked and questioned by those who give a **** about the sport, division, and playoff situation. We ,as D3 fans see a lot of bull**** regarding rankings (AFCA poll and regional rankings) that we are accustomed to questioning things that either don't seem right or possibly hurt the teams and/or regions of play that we are passionate about.

[Boxer7806]

Hopkins playing Mount Union would also prevent the re match of an earlier game this season agaisnt DVU most likely the # 2 seed in the east. I don't know about the rest of you, but I would only like to see teams play each other if necessary in the later rounds of the playoffs.