East Region Playoff Discussion

[Frank Rossi]

OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

[pg04]

OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

...If you want to whine, complain, and make excuses for why Eastern Region teams can't compete on a national level.

The Fact of the matter is that regardless of whether MTU is in the 1 seed of this region, or a round later, unless the east improves they'll either be stopped in the quarterfinals or at best in the semifinals. 

[Frank Rossi]

OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

...If you want to whine, complain, and make excuses for why Eastern Region teams can't compete on a national level.

Then refute my points.  They've been sitting there for two days waiting for counterpoints.

[pg04]

OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

...If you want to whine, complain, and make excuses for why Eastern Region teams can't compete on a national level.

Then refute my points.  They've been sitting there for two days waiting for counterpoints.

My main thought is that just because 11 teams are able to win the top seed in the East, does not imply that those 11 teams are better than most of the 11 top teams in other regions.  It's just the top seeds in those regions are so far and away better then every team in their region.  If you put a Pool C OAC or WIAC team in the "East" Bracket, instead of MTU, I think they probably win the bracket too...

[Frank Rossi]

OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

...If you want to whine, complain, and make excuses for why Eastern Region teams can't compete on a national level.

Then refute my points.  They've been sitting there for two days waiting for counterpoints.

My main thought is that just because 11 teams are able to win the top seed in the East, does not imply that those 11 teams are better than most of the 11 top teams in other regions.  It's just the top seeds in those regions are so far and away better then every team in their region.  If you put a Pool C OAC or WIAC team in the "East" Bracket, instead of MTU, I think they probably win the bracket too...

And besides games vs. MUC, what evidence do you have to make that assessment?  The only cross-regional game that stands out is Wesley/DVC -- and that was a narrow win for a team that's better than a Pool C team at home against one of the top teams in the East.

[pg04]

OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

...If you want to whine, complain, and make excuses for why Eastern Region teams can't compete on a national level.

Then refute my points.  They've been sitting there for two days waiting for counterpoints.

My main thought is that just because 11 teams are able to win the top seed in the East, does not imply that those 11 teams are better than most of the 11 top teams in other regions.  It's just the top seeds in those regions are so far and away better then every team in their region.  If you put a Pool C OAC or WIAC team in the "East" Bracket, instead of MTU, I think they probably win the bracket too...

And besides games vs. MUC, what evidence do you have to make that assessment?  The only cross-regional game that stands out is Wesley/DVC -- and that was a narrow win for a team that's better than a Pool C team at home against one of the top teams in the East.

What proof do you have to make the opposite argument? All the committee sees is that there is no eastern team DOMINANT enough to run the table.  How do you justify leaving out an undefeated St. Thomas (Who plays in a tough MIAC) or NOrth Central or Wesley, or UWW or MTU?  Already you are going to have to leave one of them out of a number 1 seed (Due to geography, it would be St. Thomas, probably).  If there are 5 teams outside of the east deserving of a 1 seed, how can they possibly make room for one that wasn't able to run the table?

Most of these Eastern teams have existed in your supposed conditions since before these last 4 years and had no trouble getting one to run the table and get the number 1 seed. 

[Frank Rossi]

OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

...If you want to whine, complain, and make excuses for why Eastern Region teams can't compete on a national level.

Then refute my points.  They've been sitting there for two days waiting for counterpoints.

My main thought is that just because 11 teams are able to win the top seed in the East, does not imply that those 11 teams are better than most of the 11 top teams in other regions.  It's just the top seeds in those regions are so far and away better then every team in their region.  If you put a Pool C OAC or WIAC team in the "East" Bracket, instead of MTU, I think they probably win the bracket too...

And besides games vs. MUC, what evidence do you have to make that assessment?  The only cross-regional game that stands out is Wesley/DVC -- and that was a narrow win for a team that's better than a Pool C team at home against one of the top teams in the East.

What proof do you have to make the opposite argument? All the committee sees is that there is no eastern team DOMINANT enough to run the table.  How do you justify leaving out an undefeated St. Thomas (Who plays in a tough MIACs) or NOrth Central or Wesley, or UWW or MTU?  Already you are going to have to leave one of them out of a number 1 seed (Due to geography, it would be St. Thomas, probably).  If there are 5 teams outside of the east deserving of a 1 seed, how can they possibly make room for one that wasn't able to run the table?

Most of these Eastern teams have existed in your supposed conditions since before these last 4 years and had no trouble getting one to run the table and get the number 1 seed. 

I laid out my proof two days ago.  If the NCAA wants to break away from a regional setup suddenly at the end of the season, then maybe we should have assessment points beyond bare wins and losses and pretty much bogus SoS numbers (SoS is deceiving under its current form and doesn't take into account quality wins or bad losses).  My proof is actual numbers, showing how the quality teams of the East are stacked more tightly conference-wise and actually schedule each other in both in-conference and OOC games.  Mathematically, pg, it is NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE to expect the East under current setup and scheduling to have probably more than one undefeated quality team (I'm throwing out SUNY-Maritime here as I think we can all agree that they are not of that quality level yet).  Take a more subjective look at the schedules of some of the undefeated teams in other regions and ask yourself just how strong that schedule is from top to bottom.  I'd say, without hesitation, that the 12 teams I named have some overall quality schedules that would give the teams you're pointing to trouble.

So, okay, let's see the Committee set up the East with a Pool C team from another region -- I'd like to see your prediction play out.  I think you'll be surprised with the results.

[pg04]

They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then. 

[Frank Rossi]

They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then. 

Compare East teams OOC schedules then and now.  I think that's changed a lot.

[Bombers798891]

Frank, regarding the point you made on the E8 update board, it may be harder to go undefeated, but the specific teams I brought up were not tripped up by, in your words "intermixing" of conferences. The Empire 8 and LL haven't had a team run the table in conference since 2005.

As for the NJAC, look, it may be hard to run the table there, but there's no reason why someone can't. Montclair missed a 30 yard FG. Yeah, it was windy, and at D-III kicking is shoddy, but a team that wants a #1 seed has to make that. They had seven first downs all game.  I don't follow the MAC closely, so I'll refrain from offering judgements

And not all "intermixing" is difficult. There's zero good reason for Alfred not to be undefeated right now, except it Alfred and well, this seems to be what they do. Regardless, they lost to two inferior teams.

Sure, it's a little tougher in the East, but when's an East team going to rise above the fray? That's what a true #1 seed does, in my mind. They don't lose 35-13 at home to a backup QB (even to a good one that's a rival), miss short FG's, lose by 31 to a four-loss team, lose to two teams who are a combined 6-8 etc.

It's time for an East team to cut out the nonsense, and stop shooting themselves in the foot. Asking someone to go 10-0 is not a herculean task--especially in the E8, whose AQ's have done a fat load of jack in the playoff the last three seasons.

[Bombers798891]

They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then. 

Compare East teams OOC schedules then and now.  I think that's changed a lot.

Again Frank, it's not the OOC's that are causing all the issues...

[Frank Rossi]

They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then. 

Compare East teams OOC schedules then and now.  I think that's changed a lot.

Again Frank, it's not the OOC's that are causing all the issues...

DelVal would differ.

[Jonny Utah]

They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then. 

Compare East teams OOC schedules then and now.  I think that's changed a lot.

Again Frank, it's not the OOC's that are causing all the issues...

DelVal would differ.

Let's say DelVal didn't play Wesley, went 10-0 and got the #1 seed in the east.  How does that change anything regarding the 32 teams that actually make the playoffs?  Does someone get left out if DelVal beats Mt. Ida instead of losing to Wesley?  Or are we just worried about Mount Union playing Del Val in round 3 instead of round 4? 

I mean, part of me wants to say that simply, Del Val just isn't as good as Wesley and that is it.  Del Val is still going to make the playoffs, and the only way they wouldn't be able to make the playoffs is if they lost another game (actually this year they could probably lose 1 or 2 more games and still win that league).  Del Val still runs the table in their conference and is clear that they are the #1 team in the east, regardless if they aren't ranked that way in the playoffs.

[JT]

Can't you also make the argument that the North teams should beat MUC, and not get a pass to the semis by having MUC go East?  When was the last time under the current system or under 24 team playoff system has Mount Union gotten beaten in region?  Never.

[Jonny Utah]

Can't you also make the argument that the North teams should beat MUC, and not get a pass to the semis by having MUC go East?  When was the last time under the current system or under 24 team playoff system has Mount Union gotten beaten in region?  Never.

If MUC was in Iowa instead of Ohio I might agree with you.  But it is in a state that borders the east region.  Thats one of the reasons I don't mind so much.