East Region Playoff Discussion

[maxpower]

I will agree that that passing attack idea is kind of silly.

[Doid23]

So I don't know much about Wheaton, and using it as a specific example is probably, as USee said, dumb.

Here's my real point: Yes Fisher had a great run in the playoffs. They also haven't made the playoffs since 2007. That's not so dominant to me. I think you (us) E8 guys think our conference is a LOT stronger than it really is. It seems more and more like we're just on a merry-go-round of who can choke against the same team every year, and then get buried in the playoffs. But what conference is a better representation of the East than the E8?

You aren't wrong in your assessment on some of the inconsistency of the East.  I just don't think parity is a reason to degrade the East, and allow the North Region teams (absent of MUC) to get a pass when some of them avoid/don't play MUC in the regular season and then turn around and tell us how strong their teams are and that they only lose to MUC.

I mentioned this once before, and it still stands.  The North Region teams combined have as many wins over the East Region teams over the past 11 years...one each...with many, many more chances.  Some of the teams are terrible and have no chance to take them down...but they still get so many more opportunities to do so as a Region, with basically zero success.

The numbers don't support that the East is so  lacking vs. the North. This is going to seem strange, sometimes comparing blowout losses, but basically, the results over the last 5 years vs. the North and East are very similar for Mt. U's opponents:

2005  d. MSJ 49-6, Augustana 44-7, Capital 34-31, Rowan 19-7
2006  d. Hope 49-6, Wheaton 44-7, Capital 17-14, Fisher 26-14
2007  d. Ithaca 42-18,New Jersey 59-7, Fisher 52-10, Bethel 62-14
2008  d. RMacon 56-0, Hobart 42-7, Cortland 41-14, d. Wheaton 45-24
2009  d. W&J55-0, Montclair 62-14, Albright 55-3, Wesley 24-7

They blow out everyone in the first rounds, no matter where they're from. But, the scores show that over the years, the best North Rep excluding Mt. U (Capital, Capital, Bethel, Wheaton) had similar results vs Mt. U and the East (Rowan, Fisher, Fisher, Cortland). So, ex Mt. U, why exactly is the North considered superior to the East? Take away Mt. Union and I'd stack the East vs. the North any day.

[Yanks 99]

So I don't know much about Wheaton, and using it as a specific example is probably, as USee said, dumb.

Here's my real point: Yes Fisher had a great run in the playoffs. They also haven't made the playoffs since 2007. That's not so dominant to me. I think you (us) E8 guys think our conference is a LOT stronger than it really is. It seems more and more like we're just on a merry-go-round of who can choke against the same team every year, and then get buried in the playoffs. But what conference is a better representation of the East than the E8?

You aren't wrong in your assessment on some of the inconsistency of the East.  I just don't think parity is a reason to degrade the East, and allow the North Region teams (absent of MUC) to get a pass when some of them avoid/don't play MUC in the regular season and then turn around and tell us how strong their teams are and that they only lose to MUC.

I mentioned this once before, and it still stands.  The North Region teams combined have as many wins over the East Region teams over the past 11 years...one each...with many, many more chances.  Some of the teams are terrible and have no chance to take them down...but they still get so many more opportunities to do so as a Region, with basically zero success.

The numbers don't support that the East is so  lacking vs. the North. This is going to seem strange, sometimes comparing blowout losses, but basically, the results over the last 5 years vs. the North and East are very similar for Mt. U's opponents:

2005  d. MSJ 49-6, Augustana 44-7, Capital 34-31, Rowan 19-7
2006  d. Hope 49-6, Wheaton 44-7, Capital 17-14, Fisher 26-14
2007  d. Ithaca 42-18,New Jersey 59-7, Fisher 52-10, Bethel 62-14
2008  d. RMacon 56-0, Hobart 42-7, Cortland 41-14, d. Wheaton 45-24
2009  d. W&J55-0, Montclair 62-14, Albright 55-3, Wesley 24-7

They blow out everyone in the first rounds, no matter where they're from. But, the scores show that over the years, the best North Rep excluding Mt. U (Capital, Capital, Bethel, Wheaton) had similar results vs Mt. U and the East (Rowan, Fisher, Fisher, Cortland). So, ex Mt. U, why exactly is the North considered superior to the East? Take away Mt. Union and I'd stack the East vs. the North any day.

Completely agree...Pat won't...but I completely agree...

And unless someone pulls off an epic miracle, the East Region teams won't get a chance to match up against a different North Region team in the playoffs as they keep sending MUC our way.

[JT]

Well, as has been mentioned, if you want the perception (valid or not) of JCU's east winning ways to go away, you need to replace them with a team that wins. Before JCU won the east the majority perception of the east was that it was strong. That was on the back of Rowan's victory at Mt Union back in 1999. So get another win over another region's top seed and you will get your perception changed. Heck, have one of your teams shipped out to another region and make a run and it will change. Mt Union won a national title with a freshman 3rd string RB named Nate Kmic if I recall. But that's just a lowly running back.

Kmic was special.  Like trying to tackle a pinball... third string my Aunt Fanny.  Mount's best RB (Kmic) started on the bench behind older players.

[Yanks 99]

Well, as has been mentioned, if you want the perception (valid or not) of JCU's east winning ways to go away, you need to replace them with a team that wins. Before JCU won the east the majority perception of the east was that it was strong. That was on the back of Rowan's victory at Mt Union back in 1999. So get another win over another region's top seed and you will get your perception changed. Heck, have one of your teams shipped out to another region and make a run and it will change. Mt Union won a national title with a freshman 3rd string RB named Nate Kmic if I recall. But that's just a lowly running back.

Kmic was special.  Like trying to tackle a pinball... third string my Aunt Fanny.

Gotta love it when the all-time leading rusher in Division III history (who just happens to own the single season rushing record as well) gets used as an epic story of coming out of nowhere to lead his team to victory, like MUC didn't realize what they had with him until injuries "forced" their hand to use him...

[skunks_sidekick]

Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

[Yanks 99]

Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Or maybe that was an excuse to why the game was as close as it was, and why MUC didn't bury SJF like they thought they would?  Either way, you don't pretty much eliminate or pull back the reigns on 50% of your offense when you are that deep into the playoffs.  Not when it's a one score game in the 4th.

We aren't talking about a mop up game against a weaker conference team in Week #3 of the season here...

[Jonny Utah]

Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Skunks, with all due respect, I don't know what that means.  Do you mean he was saving a few formations or concepts for the Stagg Bowl like no huddle, spread, quick passing game etc?  Or do you mean they just gave Kmic the ball 80% of the time in that game and less in the next game?

[JT]

Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time.  

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Skunks, with all due respect, I don't know what that means.  Do you mean he was saving a few formations or concepts for the Stagg Bowl like no huddle, spread, quick passing game etc?  Or do you mean they just gave Kmic the ball 80% of the time in that game and less in the next game?

LK (like most coaches) will run something until a team stops it.  If one team cannot stop the run, he ain't gonna pass a whole lot.

He's only hiding something if he has the luxury to do so.

[skunks_sidekick]

Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Skunks, with all due respect, I don't know what that means.  Do you mean he was saving a few formations or concepts for the Stagg Bowl like no huddle, spread, quick passing game etc?  Or do you mean they just gave Kmic the ball 80% of the time in that game and less in the next game?

YES?  Some of both I think.

[skunks_sidekick]

Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time.  

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Skunks, with all due respect, I don't know what that means.  Do you mean he was saving a few formations or concepts for the Stagg Bowl like no huddle, spread, quick passing game etc?  Or do you mean they just gave Kmic the ball 80% of the time in that game and less in the next game?

LK (like most coaches) will run something until a team stops it.  If one team cannot stop the run, he ain't gonna pass a whole lot.

He's only hiding something if he has the luxury to do so.

JT...and I agree.  He saw early that he didn't need to pass, and he chose not to do so. 

[Yanks 99]

Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Skunks, with all due respect, I don't know what that means.  Do you mean he was saving a few formations or concepts for the Stagg Bowl like no huddle, spread, quick passing game etc?  Or do you mean they just gave Kmic the ball 80% of the time in that game and less in the next game?

LK (like most coaches) will run something until a team stops it.  If one team cannot stop the run, he ain't gonna pass a whole lot.

He's only hiding something if he has the luxury to do so.

JT...and I agree.  He saw early that he didn't need to pass, and he chose not to do so. 

That's not pulling back the reigns...that is going with what works until someone stops you.  So which one is it?  Can't have it both ways...

[boobyhasgameyo]

Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

I might be more inclined to agree with you if Mount Union didn't make a regular habit of absolutely destroying teams in the playoffs as well. 

[Pat Coleman]

I don't think we can use 2002 as a sample anymore.  

Tell that to the Guru...

I was responding to someone who had already brought it up, but with incomplete information. Namely, you, Upstate.

[boobyhasgameyo]

But hey you Mount Union posters have it made with that kind of logic.  If we blow you out in the playoffs (which happens a lot) well that is just Mount Union and we are dominant.  If it is a close game, well we were just playing conservative and the only thing that matters is advancing.  That's infallible right there.