East Region Playoff Discussion

[Doid23]

It's funny, because Ithaca was a major power back in the day, but actually has never had a team go 10-0 (or better). So people think I'm being hypocritical because hey, wasn't IC that way? But those teams never once even ran the table. Augustana, I can't speak to though. Did they have long stretches of never losing?

I had my share of both Ithaca and Augustana in the playoffs in my day. Bombers, to your point, the first two Union teams I played on had 1 loss each as well, and the first lost to Augustana in the Stagg Bowl (21-17), and then to Augustana in the Semis (23-6), both very close games. But I'd stack that 1 loss 1983 Union team against anyone in the country back then.

Augustana had a great run in the early 80's, but nothing like what we are seeing now with MUC, just fundementally different. They were clearly the class of DIII for 4 years, but the playoffs were much tighter and smaller then, and I recall Augie winning some tight playoff games during their run. Don't recall their regular seasons, but I know they had a long unbeaten run.

[maxpower]

I think we used to talk the same way about it being Mount Union and everyone else. We were always urging teams to stand up to Mount Union, elevate their game and compete. UWW managed to do it. Maybe someone else can.

But what's all this I hear about MUC having huge rosters and more practices, etc.? I hear a lot about how great DIII is because these are truly student-athletes, and the only solution you're giving is for schools sacrifice the "student" part a little more?

I don't think it's just an issue of elevating your game. And a lot of you will say this is the young whippersnapper in me, but this isn't the same as when Augustana didn't lose for three seasons in the 80s. MUC has eclipsed that dominance and then some, and they have the aid of the information age in recruiting: kids from all over can learn about MUC and apply or get recruited. Wasn't quite like that in the 80s.

None of this is meant to downplay Mount's success. But I'm making this argument as a Yankee fan who desperately wants a salary cap, if that analogy helps.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Actually, Augie didn't lose a game for FOUR straight seasons.  I agree that Mt. Union has long since surpassed the 'dynasty-ness' of Augie (and that conditions are different assisting them in continuing their reign), but I delight in reminding Raiders that there is still one thing they haven't matched the Vikings in: FOUR consecutive national titles!

[Frank Rossi]

Actually, Augie didn't lose a game for FOUR straight seasons.  I agree that Mt. Union has long since surpassed the 'dynasty-ness' of Augie (and that conditions are different assisting them in continuing their reign), but I delight in reminding Raiders that there is still one thing they haven't matched the Vikings in: FOUR consecutive national titles!

I don't see MUC having the best chance at doing this right now.  UW-W might be in that position.  It would take LK a win in the Stagg this year and then three more years -- I get the sense that he might not coach for that much further into the future, but that's just my own guess.  I actually enjoy speaking with him when I get the opportunity -- he doesn't take much for granted and is very respectful, even with a somewhat intimidating presence.  Hard to explain, but I do enjoy his presence in the game.  LL of UW-W is younger and has the tools up there to make it go 15-0 four times in a row (which would surpass what Augustana had to do since the most they would have to go was 13-0).  He already has 1 1/2 of those seasons in the bank.  We'll see how it culminates.

[skunks_sidekick]

This will definitely be the toughest year for Mount.  They have so many sophmores playing, that their future looks very bright in 2011/12.  If they could magically pull it out this year, I can see another 3 year run in the cards. 

[Knightstalker]

LK has counted to infinity...    Twice

LK can divide by 0

I see how UMU does it, they don't usually even reload, they seem to have a bottomless magazine.  What amazes me even more than Mount is how UWW is doing it with 100 man roster limit.  LL must be an outstanding recruiter or has one working for him.  He also seems to have an outstanding coaching staff that adjusts almost as well on the fly as Mount does.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Rosters limits are not directly relevant, since probably less than 60 will see the field.  It does, however, cut the margin for recruiting 'errors', compared to having 170 or so on the roster.

[RedDragonFan]

Rosters limits are not directly relevant, since probably less than 60 will see the field.  It does, however, cut the margin for recruiting 'errors', compared to having 170 or so on the roster.

So how is cutting the margin for recruiting errors not relevant, directly in building a successful program?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Rosters limits are not directly relevant, since probably less than 60 will see the field.  It does, however, cut the margin for recruiting 'errors', compared to having 170 or so on the roster.

So how is cutting the margin for recruiting errors not relevant, directly in building a successful program?

Don't make (many) errors!

(And obviously LL doesn't.  Not saying LK does, but it would matter less if he did.)

[DanPadavona]

With all of the talk of MUC coming East again, would anybody be shocked if it were Wesley instead?  I wouldn't be shocked at all, as the committee will almost certainly consider Wesley as one of the top 4 seeds and deserving to be a #1.  And it would allow for a different flavor to this year's bracket.

[pg04]

Who would be #1 in the "South" then?  it would leave multiple undefeateds in the north and west. 

[pg04]

I guess it could be Mary-Hardin Baylor in the south.  I suppose its possible that could happen. 

[DanPadavona]

I think we used to talk the same way about it being Mount Union and everyone else. We were always urging teams to stand up to Mount Union, elevate their game and compete. UWW managed to do it. Maybe someone else can.

I nominate St. Lawrence

Dominant Larry.  Wasn't that a porn star from the 70s?

[DanPadavona]

I think we used to talk the same way about it being Mount Union and everyone else. We were always urging teams to stand up to Mount Union, elevate their game and compete. UWW managed to do it. Maybe someone else can.

But it cannot be an Eastern team.  Keith's article is dead-on about the number of schools dividing the talent in MA and NY especially.  Ithaca's national prominence ended right about the time that Buffalo State, Brockport, and especially Fisher became strong.  All of these schools, including the 1-AA and II teams divide the talent.

Why is Whitewater able to match Mount Union?  Take a look at the Wisconson map.  Besides the obvious University of Wisconson, there is just a handful of schools.  Plenty of great talent to go around too.

In the East things just keep getting worse and worse.  Now Utica is apparently getting good.  Morrisville went D3.  Hartwick started a program and became competitive.  Maritime started a program.  It's getting ridiculous.  There is a lot of talent up here, but not enough to support a super power unless one school dominates all of the talent.

I think if a couple Boston-centric schools folded their programs, Curry could be a major threat too.  They do well enough despite the dog fight for local talent.

I'd love to see the East rise in prominence again, but somebody has to convince me it can happen in this environment.  If it does, it will probably be in NJ or PA.  I could see Del Valley possibly pulling it off.

[HScoach]

The changing landscape in Ohio is going to make it harder for Mount to remain at the top into the next decade.  Two nearby NAIA schools in Canton (20 miles away) are moving to D2 and a couple new D2 schools have started in the Cleveland area too.  Plus factoring in the shrinking population and economy in Ohio and convincing 100 kids a year to pay $30k+ a year to play football at Mount is going to be a lot harder than it's been.

If anyone is primed to keep stay on top it's Whitewater.  Only one D1 school in all of Wisconsin and cheap state school tuition.

It's just a complete guess on my part, but I bet LK has less than 5 years left on the sidelines.  And when he walks, the end is immediate.