East Region Playoff Discussion

[Cardinal Pride]

Hobart had the ball inside the Wesley 5 two drives in a row and failed to punch it in.  Too bad, great game and Hobart had a great season they gave Wesley all they wanted.

[thewaterboy]

Whooooooo! Nice game by Hobart. They really proved themselves. Not what I expected at all as they really capitalized on the numerous Wesley mistakes.

Not a good game by Wesley at all. I feel like we lost. Not a pretty game at all. 150+ yards in penalties and a gazillion turnovers. This was UGLY! Lucky is right! But they move on nonetheless.....need to clean this up or pg04, you will be right. and it will not be very pretty on the scoreboard.

[pumkinattack]

Someone will criticize in hindsight, but down 14-0, I support going for the goal from the 1.  From there, the decision on the second and third missed opportunities from the 5 and 2 were much easier given the score. 

I cna't believe how Hobart showed up.  Backup QB's missing half the receiving corps, starting FB playing with a cast on his arm and even Worthington (thigh) and Robinson (cleared from a concussion) were questionable well into the week. 

I'm sure the narrative from tke cynics and skeptics of the East will be look at the stats in this game (ignoring Hobart being short handed, on the road against a 2 TD favorite if we're all healthy).  Hobart's used to it.  Even on these boards in the middle of the decade all I'd read is that whoever they beat (RPI, Union, etc.) had better talent they were lucky to win.  Nothing new.   

Congrats to SJF and please carry the flag forward.  You'll get stiffed by those same skeptics of the East that the CC isn't that great of a conference, but the consensus of those deemed appropriate to vote on the polls collectively had them pegged as the 14th best team in the country and you traveled roughly the same distance as us to take that victory. 

[pg04]

If Hobart had the ability to kick, they may have won this game.  Inside the 6 three times... 

[Frank Rossi]

If Hobart had the ability to kick, they may have won this game.  Inside the 6 three times...

Once led to a turnover where they scored a quick TD, though, no?  So that washes it a bit.  However, their second-to-last possession to me was a no-brainier FG situation.  It would send a message to Wesley that they weren't scared and didn't need to go on 4th down every time to win.  Also, I think Wesley's goal line defense was really good -- and it might have benefitted Hobart to kick the ball off and have more room to navigate.

Either way, though, Hobart's defense is the real deal.  I'm proud to say they're a major force in our Region and the Liberty League after today's performance.  Between them, Fisher and DelVal, we saw a new case to be made that the East is stronger than we think.

In other news, Endicott came from behind to beat... Ummmm... Mt. Ida (you know, that perennial powerhouse in D3 football) by the score of 31-22.  I'm excited to hear Charles' reasons why Endicott proved they deserved a spot in the dance, especially at the cost of Fisher.  Let me make some popcorn...

[DanPadavona]

Either way, though, Hobart's defense is the real deal.  I'm proud to say they're a major force in our Region and the Liberty League after today's performance.  Between them, Fisher and DelVal, we saw a new case to be made that the East is stronger than we think.

Don't forget Kean smashing CNU 34-10. It was 34-7 at the half. CNU was 8-0 against the USAC and 0-3 against East teams in 2011. Those losses included one to Stevenson, which won only one game in the MAC.

My thoughts on the East today:

http://d3east-football.blogspot.com/2011/11/east-looking-strong-in-playoffs.html

[Frank Rossi]

Either way, though, Hobart's defense is the real deal.  I'm proud to say they're a major force in our Region and the Liberty League after today's performance.  Between them, Fisher and DelVal, we saw a new case to be made that the East is stronger than we think.

Don't forget Kean smashing CNU 34-10. It was 34-7 at the half. CNU was 8-0 against the USAC and 0-3 against East teams in 2011. Those losses included one to Stevenson, which won only one game in the MAC.

My thoughts on the East today:

http://d3east-football.blogspot.com/2011/11/east-looking-strong-in-playoffs.html

True, Dan.  No offense to Kean.  That game was over so early, I forgot to include it.

[wesleydad]

hobart played a mistake free game today and just missed pulling off a huge upset.  i was also puzzled by the no field goal attempts once only down 7.  i agree with pumpkin that the first one when down 14 - 0, need a td.  hobart did a great job with all the chances they had but did not get it done in the end.  tough loss, but they should be very proud of the effort.  wesley played a horrible game, not sure which is worse, the turnovers or the 150+ yards in penalties.  they escaped to play another day.  they have no shot against whomever they play next week if they repeat this performance.  after all the excitement ends about how close the game was, in the end it was only close because of the mistakes wesley made.  the hobart lineman made a nice play on the int and the blocked punt looked just like the kean game, i hate that spread punt formation that wesley uses, not sure how all the punts dont get blocked.  all the fumbles were mistakes by wesley not from hits by hobart.  i am not sure how it came across on the audio but the officials were the worst group i have ever seen just getting the ball placed properly.  i think they had to replace the ball at least a half a dozen times, got to the point that the game seemed to stop almost every play while they tried to figure out where the ball should be.  again, congrats to hobart for playing an excellent game today, shame you didnt pull it off.

[Jonny Utah]

I've never seen Welsey play, but it sounds like they don't have the ability to play enough mistake free games that would allow them to win a national championship.  Maybe they should recruit some players that don't make so many mistakes?

[Ralph Turner]

I've never seen Welsey play, but it sounds like they don't have the ability to play enough mistake free games that would allow them to win a national championship.  Maybe they should recruit some players that don't make so many mistakes?

That is my assessment.  A national champion must play 5 games with minimal mistakes.

[wesleydad]

jonny and ralph, you are probably right.  maybe they got all the mistakes out today and the next 4 will be mistake free.  i doubt it though, have seen it all too often.  the last 5 years they have been plenty talented enough to compete at the top level.  they just as easily could have lost today.

[SJFF82]

Hobart represented their school, alum and former players well today.  With all the injuries, adversity of getting screwed on the draw they got and the criticism for the 8 game schedule...plus they got down big early.....but they fought back and had the game for the taking at the end.

I know for the players it is no consolation after a loss like that...but some day they will look back (while they are posting on d3.com on a saterday nite) and be proud of what they did today...

+k to Hobart!!!

[Frank Rossi]

I've had a smile on my face since about 3pm EST today.  I alluded to why earlier, but I wanted to elaborate on the reasons after what could only be called a real success story for the East Region and for the Division.

Over the past few seasons, you've heard people, including myself, dwell on two main ideas: 1) subjectivity needs to play a role in the selection process of Division III football's tournament; and 2) the East has been getting a raw deal when it comes to reputation and bracketing.  When we saw the tournament selections last weekend and learned that the Committee lived up to a promise they had been making (that a quality undefeated East Region team would be a #1 seed if one existed) and allowed the East to spread out into out-of-region games.  On top of that, instead of diluting the East Region pool with an additional NEFC team, we saw subjectivity give St. John Fisher a chance with two losses.

Now, those things, in and of themselves were reason for celebration.  However, what if Fisher fell flat in their game and the East lost all of the cross-regional matchups?  After all these seasons of complaining and yelling and praying, a poor showing by either or both could have had permanent negative effects in future years' selections and bracketing; the East Region teams would've shown themselves as deserving of the reputation and treatment, and two-loss teams that took risks in scheduling would've watched their positive scheduling philosophies get trampled on one more time.

Yet, it didn't happen that way.  Fisher won.  The EAST won.  And thus, THE DIVISION won.  Why? 

As far as the East goes, with Hobart challenging the Wesley juggernaut, Fisher beating formerly undefeated Johns Hopklins and Kean trouncing Christopher Newport early and often, maybe there will be one more real challenger in the national landscape that we hadn't counted on before these playoffs are complete.  That makes the whole process more exciting -- nobody's just playing for a fifth-place tie anymore, something that used to make the East Region games somewhat anticlimatic when you took a step back and looked at what the teams' real hopes were with Mount Union at the top.  That can only help the Division gain in terms of excitement and competition moving forward.  We used to dwell on the idea that the East Region's major conferences were deeper than most conferences in other regions.  Maybe we saw that idea finally panning out.

And with that depth issue, there's the idea that depth and strength in scheduling those teams inside those deep conferences could lead to more than one loss on the season for some teams.  Fisher was one such team, losing to playoff teams Hobart and Salisbury this year.  One thing people need to realize is that the Committee did NOT break away from their use of the SoS numbers we criticize.  Instead, what they finally began to do was look at the differential in SoS figures between teams with one more/less loss and compare them.  If there was a large enough differential, they looked at each team's quality of loss(es) and quality of wins/scheduling.  That's what became evident in listening to Committee Chair Joy Solomen on "In the HuddLLe" last weekend.  She admitted there was subjectivity, but it was done inside the boundaries of the SoS structure in order to satisfy the NCAA's mandates.  Thus, your resume still means a lot if you're at two losses and hoping for an at-large bid.

With all that said, Fisher proved once and for all, perhaps with Endicott's help today in a close affair against a Mt. Ida team that really has no regional, let alone national respect, that if the intent of Pools B and C is to include the strongest teams possible in the playoffs, number of losses isn't the way to derive that strength.  Any future two-loss team that wins an at-large bid over one-loss candidates will have Fisher to thank for years to come.

I'm not here trying to pat myself or others on the back for our public stances that might have helped draw these changes.  I'm here, rather, to congratulate and thank the Committee for taking chances.  I'm also here to thank the East Region teams for making their biggest supporters look right.  This wasn't a day for just the East to celebrate, but for the entire Division -- and it's a day that won't soon be forgotten.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Frank, nice post.  But may I remind you of 2008?  Wheaton (IL), probably 32nd team in (2 losses); they went to the semis!  SJF still has some big shoes to fill before you anoint them as pathfinders.

There was no 'flood' of 2-loss teams after Wheaton (despite their success); we shall see whether anyone has any such 'flood' to thank SJF for.

I think your celebration of 'quality' over 'strict criteria' is premature.

[lewdogg11]

Great post Frank. Totally agree with your assessment.  Awesome day for the East Region.

That said, I figured that I'd share my experience today.

I caught the Endicott/Mt Ida game with "Utes". Let's just start off nice and say that the NCAA made a great decision by taking St John Fisher. Both having down years, I'm pretty confident that both RPI and Ithaca would have won the NEFC this year.

Outside of Norwich, Endicott(or Mt Ida) would have not competed in any playoff games today. Both teams had some really talented kids. I won't take that away. To be honest, I was surprised at how athletic and put together some of the Mt Ida kids were. They gained more respect from me today than anything. But EC is somewhere around Hartwick or St.Lawrence level(this year's versions) at best. Good athletes, decent size, but just not on the same level.

Lastly, I watched several amazing D1 games tonight and in none of them did I see anything nearly as ridiculous as Endicott's D tackle that was half naked with his jersey barely covering his shoulder pads. He looked ridiculous and if Mt Ida had more than 6 fans, he would have been a field day for heckling from the sidelines. Do some squats dude.

Charles, my apologies that I didn't come away in awe. Til next year...