East Region Playoff Discussion

[@d3jason]

I think Bart got a nice draw. If they have truely moved into the elite this season anything less than a trip to Minnesota is a disappointment.

[lewdogg11]

Ok, here goes nothing...

LD's Picks of the Week(week week week week)

NCAA
Wesley - 67
Mt. Ida - 13
I think this one is gonna be ugly. 

Hobart - 35
Washington and Lee - 21
I think this score will look closer than the actual game.  I think Hobart is the superior team here.

Widener - 56
Bridgewater State - 17
Bottom line is Bridgewater State should not be playing in this game.  I think the score will show that.

Salisbury - 28
Rowan - 24
Probably the game of the week.  It could be a toss up, but I think Salisbury is better than they're getting credit for.

Cortland St. - 42
Framingham St. - 6
Framingham at least WON the NEFC and slayed the Salve dragon.  But I still think they are not ready for the big time.  This will be the 2nd non-NEFC team Framingham has played in 12 years.  Hopefully Cortland welcomes them properly.

ECAC
St. John Fisher - 45
Castleton St. - 6

Endicott - 35
Norwich - 17

[pg04]

I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

[lewdogg11]

I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

[pg04]

I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

[Yanks 99]

I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

[ExTartanPlayer]

I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

[AUPepBand]

Ok, here goes nothing...

LD's Picks of the Week(week week week week)

NCAA
Wesley - 67
Mt. Ida - 13
I think this one is gonna be ugly. 

Hobart - 35
Washington and Lee - 21
I think this score will look closer than the actual game.  I think Hobart is the superior team here.

Widener - 56
Bridgewater State - 17
Bottom line is Bridgewater State should not be playing in this game.  I think the score will show that.

Salisbury - 28
Rowan - 24
Probably the game of the week.  It could be a toss up, but I think Salisbury is better than they're getting credit for.

Cortland St. - 42
Framingham St. - 6
Framingham at least WON the NEFC and slayed the Salve dragon.  But I still think they are not ready for the big time.  This will be the 2nd non-NEFC team Framingham has played in 12 years.  Hopefully Cortland welcomes them properly.

ECAC
St. John Fisher - 45
Castleton St. - 6

Endicott - 35
Norwich - 17

Any pick on the AU-Springfield game, Dogg?

[Yanks 99]

I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

The problem is that pretty much only ONE team out of the 16 current NEFC teams (Salve) is even trying to consistently schedule stornger OOC opponents.  I think we all understand that Maine-Maritime, Nichols, or Mass-Dartmouth probably aren't lining up to take on the likes of Hobart, Fisher, Widener, etc.  But Bridgewater has gone over a DECADE plus of not scheduling anyone outside of the NEFC.  Their ONE game that was outside the NEFC (against Norwich) wasn't scheduled, as it was an ECAC bid.  You start getting over ten plus years on not playing out of conference opponents, and to me that shows a blantant attempt to avoid anyone difficult.  That is borderline NESCAC right there...

[lewdogg11]

Ok, here goes nothing...

LD's Picks of the Week(week week week week)

NCAA
Wesley - 67
Mt. Ida - 13
I think this one is gonna be ugly. 

Hobart - 35
Washington and Lee - 21
I think this score will look closer than the actual game.  I think Hobart is the superior team here.

Widener - 56
Bridgewater State - 17
Bottom line is Bridgewater State should not be playing in this game.  I think the score will show that.

Salisbury - 28
Rowan - 24
Probably the game of the week.  It could be a toss up, but I think Salisbury is better than they're getting credit for.

Cortland St. - 42
Framingham St. - 6
Framingham at least WON the NEFC and slayed the Salve dragon.  But I still think they are not ready for the big time.  This will be the 2nd non-NEFC team Framingham has played in 12 years.  Hopefully Cortland welcomes them properly.

ECAC
St. John Fisher - 45
Castleton St. - 6

Endicott - 35
Norwich - 17

Any pick on the AU-Springfield game, Dogg?

Is that game for real?  it's not on the schedule.

[lewdogg11]

I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

The problem is that pretty much only ONE team out of the 16 current NEFC teams (Salve) is even trying to consistently schedule stornger OOC opponents.  I think we all understand that Maine-Maritime, Nichols, or Mass-Dartmouth probably aren't lining up to take on the likes of Hobart, Fisher, Widener, etc.  But Bridgewater has gone over a DECADE plus of not scheduling anyone outside of the NEFC.  Their ONE game that was outside the NEFC (against Norwich) wasn't scheduled, as it was an ECAC bid.  You start getting over ten plus years on not playing out of conference opponents, and to me that shows a blantant attempt to avoid anyone difficult.  That is borderline NESCAC right there...

Let's not even go the 'difficult' route. Let's just blame it on travel.  So, how about Springfield, Mt. Ida, Plymouth St., Becker???  Something!  It's awful and to me it's just lazy.  And to answer this question 'Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the nonconference schedules of NEFC teams?'  All 3 OOC games?  NO!  But i'm sure any LL or E8 teams would be MORE than willing to schedule one of those games.  Instead, they have to look to NJ, PA, or VT for a softball.

[Yanks 99]

I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

The problem is that pretty much only ONE team out of the 16 current NEFC teams (Salve) is even trying to consistently schedule stornger OOC opponents.  I think we all understand that Maine-Maritime, Nichols, or Mass-Dartmouth probably aren't lining up to take on the likes of Hobart, Fisher, Widener, etc.  But Bridgewater has gone over a DECADE plus of not scheduling anyone outside of the NEFC.  Their ONE game that was outside the NEFC (against Norwich) wasn't scheduled, as it was an ECAC bid.  You start getting over ten plus years on not playing out of conference opponents, and to me that shows a blantant attempt to avoid anyone difficult.  That is borderline NESCAC right there...

Let's not even go the 'difficult' route. Let's just blame it on travel.  So, how about Springfield, Mt. Ida, Plymouth St., Becker???  Something!  It's awful and to me it's just lazy.  And to answer this question 'Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the nonconference schedules of NEFC teams?'  All 3 OOC games?  NO!  But i'm sure any LL or E8 teams would be MORE than willing to schedule one of those games.  Instead, they have to look to NJ, PA, or VT for a softball.

Yep...all of this...100%...+k...

[Jonny Utah]

I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

I make a quick joke about this on another board, but now I'm thinking the NCAA might be serious.

Maybe this is a message to E8, LL, and MAC teams to seek out NEFC and ECFC teams to fill out their schedules?  Those schools do have more resources to travel after all.

[dlippiel]

I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

dlip hears ya but he just doesn't concurr. Listen, East Region teams as a whole (outside of the NEFC/ECFC) kick the **** out of each other annually. Many schedule some decent OOC competition to better their program, attract recruits, and to gain more respect nationally. While this may pay off regarding D3.com rankings it hardly seems to pay off all that much when it comes to getting bids pool C bids. What the NCAA has shown us time and again is that record counts big time. SOOOOO much so that ****ing Bridgewater gets in over many teams across the nation who would ****ing stomp them. So to respond to what you said earlier dlip believes at this point, many teams in the NJAC, LL, E8, and MAC will line up to play games against teams in the ECFC and NEFC that they should beat to just better their record. This could be especially true if coaches think in terms of defeating in region ranked teams towards the end of the year. A win this year against a team like Framingham would benefit many bubble teams like Lycoming, Rowan, and many others who if you took away a loss and replaced it with an OOC in region ranked team win, would look good to the NCAA when selecting pool C teams.

[Yanks 99]

Like most East Region fans, I am getting a bit tired of this.  In almost every instance, I am for showing good sportsmanship and pumping the brakes when your team is fully in control of the game.  But because the NEFC and ECFC almost exclusively keep their games in house, and then somehow acutally manage to steal a Pool C bid from other more deserving teams around the nation (thanks NCAA!!!), I honestly hope that Widener (vs. Bridgewater State), Wesley (vs. Mt. Ida), and Cortland (vs. Framingham State) absolutely destory their opponents this weekend.  I wouldn't let up for a single second.  I wouldn't let them score garbage TD's late in the game to give an appearance that the game was even a bit closer.  I don't know what it will take to get the NCAA committee to open up their eyes on this issue...but I guess 62-24 losses (WNEC vs. Salisbury last year) and and 62-10 losses (Norwich vs. Delaware Valley) aren't doing the job.  Maybe something like 84-7 or 77-0 losses would finally change their minds...

I would do all I could to ensure that there was never any confusion going forward that the stonger conferences (in this case the MAC, NJAC, and Wesley as an independent) get teams left out of the tournament via a Pool C bid for a one loss NEFC, ECFC, or god forbid MASCAC team moving forward.