East Region Playoff Discussion

[ExTartanPlayer]

I guess I want to chime in on the whole "weak conference" chat.
Much of my opinion has been said by my fellow posters, but one thing rang in my head after Saturday.
Gene and Peter were saying that Castleton was a young program (4 years) and should be commended for making the playoffs in such a short time...They continued and said that it took longer for Fisher to achieve the same feat and this was an accomplishment (for CS)that they could put in their cap....I think that they were playing nice nice because they were rebroadcasted to Vermont, because look....The talent level of the E8 and the ECFC is just apples and oranges.  The wins for the ECFC are inflated.  The proof is in the pudding folks....ECFC and NEFC are inferior conferences and produce lesser quality champions.
It just sickens me that they not only stole a pool c, but have an AQ.
We cant be the only people that see this right?

Re-posting this from the NEFC board because it seems germane here as well.

"Dear Lord, the NEFC gets a Pool C bid and now everyone's worried the D3 world is going to hell in a handbasket. 

Just last year an 8-2 St. John Fisher got in over a few 9-1 teams with weaker SOS and we threw our hands up in a collective hallelujah.  There's no reason to believe that this one bid for an NEFC team means that the 9-1 NEFC/MASCAC runnerup is a guaranteed entry in the future.  The last time an NEFC team got a Pool C bid before this was five years ago (and that particular team WON its first round playoff game).

Step down off the ledge, guys, life is really worth it."

[fisheralum91]

Ex Tartan,
I think the point is that last year it seemed like the selection comm. finally "got it"
Now it seems like a huge step backwards.

[Yanks 99]

Ex Tartan,
I think the point is that last year it seemed like the selection comm. finally "got it"
Now it seems like a huge step backwards.

When 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the NCAA East Region poll the week before the final game of the season...it clearly showed me that someone isn't getting it...

[fisheralum91]

well said yanks

[AUKaz00]

Ex Tartan,
I think the point is that last year it seemed like the selection comm. finally "got it"
Now it seems like a huge step backwards.

When 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the NCAA East Region poll the week before the final game of the season...it clearly showed me that someone isn't getting it...

Did you guys get a chance to read Frank's long breakdown on the East Regional Rankings over on the Pool C board?  It seems the reason 4 NEFC teams made it was due to the dearth of 2-loss teams.  Lycoming likely was slotted in the middle of those 4 teams and had Albright, Alfred, Del Valley, Fisher or Springfield finished with one less loss they would probably have made the rankings supplanting Endicott or Salve.  We all know that the middle of the E8, LL, MAC, and NJAC are stronger than the NEFC, but the extra losses is what produced such an ugly regional ranking.

[bman]

Ex Tartan,
I think the point is that last year it seemed like the selection comm. finally "got it"
Now it seems like a huge step backwards.

When 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the NCAA East Region poll the week before the final game of the season...it clearly showed me that someone isn't getting it...

Did you guys get a chance to read Frank's long breakdown on the East Regional Rankings over on the Pool C board?  It seems the reason 4 NEFC teams made it was due to the dearth of 2-loss teams.  Lycoming likely was slotted in the middle of those 4 teams and had Albright, Alfred, Del Valley, Fisher or Springfield finished with one less loss they would probably have made the rankings supplanting Endicott or Salve.  We all know that the middle of the E8, LL, MAC, and NJAC are stronger than the NEFC, but the extra losses is what produced such an ugly regional ranking.

To add to that, in the interview, the committee chair, mentioned how the NCAA changed the rules of the selection.  In the past, there was open discussion on all of the teams, when needed.   Now that seems to have gone away.  The process is secluded, and the picks are made independently.  I think the intent was to eliminate the effect of lobbying, but now we're getting back to the point where there is little to no sanity checks against these picks...to an extent the lobbying was ofset by other committee members who could bring local knowledge to the table...now that knowledge is being wasted in favor of SOS and SOOS numbers that can be misleading...

[Yanks 99]

Ex Tartan,
I think the point is that last year it seemed like the selection comm. finally "got it"
Now it seems like a huge step backwards.

When 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the NCAA East Region poll the week before the final game of the season...it clearly showed me that someone isn't getting it...

Did you guys get a chance to read Frank's long breakdown on the East Regional Rankings over on the Pool C board?  It seems the reason 4 NEFC teams made it was due to the dearth of 2-loss teams.  Lycoming likely was slotted in the middle of those 4 teams and had Albright, Alfred, Del Valley, Fisher or Springfield finished with one less loss they would probably have made the rankings supplanting Endicott or Salve.  We all know that the middle of the E8, LL, MAC, and NJAC are stronger than the NEFC, but the extra losses is what produced such an ugly regional ranking.

I hear you Kaz...and I will admit that I did not read Frank's write up...but anyone that knows anything about East Region football can look at an 8-1 NEFC record and immediately know that a 6-4 Utica team, who is probably only the 6th best team in the E8, would probably run the table in the NEFC.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I hear you Kaz...and I will admit that I did not read Frank's write up...but anyone that knows anything about East Region football can look at an 8-1 NEFC record and immediately know that a 6-4 Utica team, who is probably only the 6th best team in the E8, would probably run the table in the NEFC.

Oh, come on, get off your high horse.  Your vitriol is really starting to blind you to on-field results, isn't it?  The E8, LL, and NJAC are collectively better than the NEFC and the teams at the bottom of those three conferences would KILL the teams at the bottom of the NEFC.  That doesn't mean their sixth-best team would run the table in the NEFC.
 
Springfield finished 8-3 and third in the Empire 8.  They lost to a Bridgewater State team who did not win the NEFC.  I know what you guys are screaming about early-season results and how much better Springfield was at the end of the year...but still, guys, how many excuses are you going to make for teams from your own conference(s) while continually slamming the NEFC?

Union finished 6-4 and second in the Liberty League.  They lost to a Salve Regina team that lost two NEFC games, including one to an MIT team from the middle of the conference.  You wanna guarantee me that Union runs the table in the NEFC without dropping one game somewhere?  Sure, they'd go 8-2 at worst, but I'm not ready to bet my life that they're running the table.

Montclair State finished 5-5 and effectively tied for third in the NJAC (since the Kean/Rowan game was never played, Kean finished 5-2 in conference and Montclair 5-3; since Montclair also beat Kean head-to-head, it seems fair to call that a "tie for third" of sorts).  Salve Regina also beat Montclair, so entire passage about re: Union applies here again.

Those are three wins against three different teams that finished in the top half of three different Eastern conferences, posted by two different NEFC teams, neither of whom claimed the NEFC's Pool A bid.   Still ready to guarantee that the sixth-best team in (insert other East conference here) is a lock to run the table in the NEFC?

Lest you get confused: none of this is an argument to show that the NEFC is "stronger" than the other conferences.   I'm merely pointing out that several teams who are not from the "bottom" of  the other Eastern conferences lost to some of the top NEFC teams this season, and therefore, I find it difficult to agree with the statement that teams from the bottom half of the Empire 8, LL, or NJAC would run the table in the NEFC.

[Yanks 99]

I hear you Kaz...and I will admit that I did not read Frank's write up...but anyone that knows anything about East Region football can look at an 8-1 NEFC record and immediately know that a 6-4 Utica team, who is probably only the 6th best team in the E8, would probably run the table in the NEFC.

Oh, come on, get off your high horse.  Your vitriol is really starting to blind you to on-field results, isn't it?  The E8, LL, and NJAC are collectively better than the NEFC and the teams at the bottom of those three conferences would KILL the teams at the bottom of the NEFC.  That doesn't mean their sixth-best team would run the table in the NEFC.
 
Springfield finished 8-3 and third in the Empire 8.  They lost to a Bridgewater State team who did not win the NEFC.  I know what you guys are screaming about early-season results and how much better Springfield was at the end of the year...but still, guys, how many excuses are you going to make for teams from your own conference(s) while continually slamming the NEFC?

Union finished 6-4 and second in the Liberty League.  They lost to a Salve Regina team that lost two NEFC games, including one to an MIT team from the middle of the conference.  You wanna guarantee me that Union runs the table in the NEFC without dropping one game somewhere?  Sure, they'd go 8-2 at worst, but I'm not ready to bet my life that they're running the table.

Montclair State finished 5-5 and effectively tied for third in the NJAC (since the Kean/Rowan game was never played, Kean finished 5-2 in conference and Montclair 5-3; since Montclair also beat Kean head-to-head, it seems fair to call that a "tie for third" of sorts).  Salve Regina also beat Montclair, so entire passage about re: Union applies here again.

Those are three wins against three different teams that finished in the top half of three different Eastern conferences, posted by two different NEFC teams, neither of whom claimed the NEFC's Pool A bid.   Still ready to guarantee that the sixth-best team in (insert other East conference here) is a lock to run the table in the NEFC?

Lest you get confused: none of this is an argument to show that the NEFC is "stronger" than the other conferences.   I'm merely pointing out that several teams who are not from the "bottom" of  the other Eastern conferences lost to some of the top NEFC teams this season, and therefore, I find it difficult to agree with the statement that teams from the bottom half of the Empire 8, LL, or NJAC would run the table in the NEFC.

You can say whatever you want...and anyone that knows me at all knows I am absolutely the farthest thing from a Utica fan...but you would be crazy to think that Utica wouldn't be at worst 9-1 with an NEFC schedule, and would probably run the table.  Remember when everyone was high on Salve (myself included) because they beat Union by 3 points with an 11 point rally in the 4th quarter?  Utica destroyed Union to the tune of 45-17.  Though I guess I am "blinded" by on field results. 

So....yeah...I think Utica if they played in the NEFC would absolutely be the cream of the crop...and immediately.

[pg04]

People are also lumping ECFC and NEFC together and after this week I don't think it's a fair "lumping." I think  ETP (ExTartanPlayer, as I'll refer to him going forward) makes some valid arguments and Frank's long post last week on the Pool C board appeased me enough to not be as bent out of shape about this as some here are.

[Yanks 99]

My Utica arguement stands...that is just what I think.

My point above was not aimed at one specific NEFC team...just that I thought it was ridiculous that 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the East Region Top 10...

[ITH radio]

Springfield finished 8-3 and third in the Empire 8.  They lost to a Bridgewater State team who did not win the NEFC.  I know what you guys are screaming about early-season results and how much better Springfield was at the end of the year...but still, guys, how many excuses are you going to make for teams from your own conference(s) while continually slamming the NEFC?

Union finished 6-4 and second in the Liberty League.  They lost to a Salve Regina team that lost two NEFC games, including one to an MIT team from the middle of the conference.  You wanna guarantee me that Union runs the table in the NEFC without dropping one game somewhere?  Sure, they'd go 8-2 at worst, but I'm not ready to bet my life that they're running the table.

Montclair State finished 5-5 and effectively tied for third in the NJAC (since the Kean/Rowan game was never played, Kean finished 5-2 in conference and Montclair 5-3; since Montclair also beat Kean head-to-head, it seems fair to call that a "tie for third" of sorts).  Salve Regina also beat Montclair, so entire passage about re: Union applies here again.

Those are three wins against three different teams that finished in the top half of three different Eastern conferences, posted by two different NEFC teams, neither of whom claimed the NEFC's Pool A bid.   Still ready to guarantee that the sixth-best team in (insert other East conference here) is a lock to run the table in the NEFC?

Lest you get confused: none of this is an argument to show that the NEFC is "stronger" than the other conferences.   I'm merely pointing out that several teams who are not from the "bottom" of  the other Eastern conferences lost to some of the top NEFC teams this season, and therefore, I find it difficult to agree with the statement that teams from the bottom half of the Empire 8, LL, or NJAC would run the table in the NEFC.

Minor correction - SC finished 3rd in the LL, not the E8.  Still, I think the top NEFC teams have shown that with more FT coaches, better funding, etc that they are slowly catching up to the rest of the East Region.

[pg04]

Also, I think if we did what many people here would like to be done to "rectify" the Pool C situation, East Region teams would hardly ever be chosen for an At large. In general, the East is seen weaker and if such subjectivity is involved then it could be a problem for the east.

[ECoastFootball]

My Utica arguement stands...that is just what I think.

My point above was not aimed at one specific NEFC team...just that I thought it was ridiculous that 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the East Region Top 10...

Also, that is because it was a 16 team league. It was really 2 MASCAC teams ranked (Framingham and Bridgewater) and 2 NEFC (Endicott and Salve).

[Pat Coleman]

My Utica arguement stands...that is just what I think.

My point above was not aimed at one specific NEFC team...just that I thought it was ridiculous that 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the East Region Top 10...

Also, that is because it was a 16 team league. It was really 2 MASCAC teams ranked (Framingham and Bridgewater) and 2 NEFC (Endicott and Salve).

This is really an artificial distinction considering they were playing for one automatic bid in 2012.