East Region Playoff Discussion

[skunks_sidekick]

SS's tiers........

1-10 and to infinity......MOUNT.

The rest....pfffft. 

Ok.....ok...just kidding of course.  I think the subject has been covered with great aplomb and distinction from all that have contributed.

Especially Frank.....who through thick and thin always remains true to his inner Frank.   

[DanPadavona]

I don't see Hobart or Widener being able to physically match up with UW-Platteville, much less anybody in the top 10 in the West.

How do you think Buffalo State would match up with Whitewater? Oh wait, we already know that.

[DanPadavona]

To the point that D3 football athletes are better than ever -

I can't disagree with that point. However that is endemic of collegiate sports in general. U.S. Lacrosse and Soccer athletes are much stronger and faster than they were a few decades ago. We are more aware of quality training techniques now than we were 20 and 50 years ago. Heck, I'm in considerably better shape at age 44 than my parents and grandparents were at the same age. I know what weight training techniques make the most gains in the shortest amount of time.

But while the athleticism of the D3 football players is likely at an all-time high, I have serious doubts that the talent pool is nearly as deep as it once was. Unless we believe there are more kids interested in playing sports than ever before, I have to believe the growth in soccer's popularity has taken a large chunk of the pool of athletes once destined for football.

And since the growth in soccer seems to be at a higher arc on the east coast than it is in middle America, this could explain the watered down nature of D3 football for traditionally strong east teams such as Ithaca and Union.

In 1988 I watched Cortland and Ithaca split two games against each other, and I was convinced those were the two best teams in the entire country. Since IC won the NCAA championship and Cortland was the only team to beat them (and play them very close in a loss), it looked very much like Cortland was the #2 team in the nation. Neither team could stack up against the Mount Union team I watched from the sidelines in 2008. I don't know how all of the talent level in D3 suddenly migrated toward a few schools, but it certainly did. And I find it incredibly dull.

If you are a Mount Union fan, do you honestly enjoy watching your in-conference games? What was the last exciting game you paid to see? Is beating a team 56-7 something you will remember forever? Yeah, Cortland football can't compare to Mount Union football. But I'd buy season tickets to watch Cortland in a heartbeat, and there were several very close games this season (including the playoffs) which made it all worthwhile.

I'm not sure that watching total domination is that much fun. And I'll put my money where my mouth is on that statement. I pretty much Live for Cortland lacrosse these days, and I drive to Cortland to watch 6-7 games per season. But I almost never bother to watch them play someone like SUNY Oneonta, because why waste time and money to watch them win 22-4? Seriously, what is it like buying season tickets to Mount Union football? Is there any drama at all? Or is the drama in waiting to see if the 3rd string running back will hit 200 yards rushing by the end of the 4th quarter? 

[pg04]

I am with Dan, and I have felt that way for several years. In the grand whole of caring it has waned considerably.

[rams1102]

To the point that D3 football athletes are better than ever -

I can't disagree with that point. However that is endemic of collegiate sports in general. U.S. Lacrosse and Soccer athletes are much stronger and faster than they were a few decades ago. We are more aware of quality training techniques now than we were 20 and 50 years ago. Heck, I'm in considerably better shape at age 44 than my parents and grandparents were at the same age. I know what weight training techniques make the most gains in the shortest amount of time.

But while the athleticism of the D3 football players is likely at an all-time high, I have serious doubts that the talent pool is nearly as deep as it once was. Unless we believe there are more kids interested in playing sports than ever before, I have to believe the growth in soccer's popularity has taken a large chunk of the pool of athletes once destined for football.

And since the growth in soccer seems to be at a higher arc on the east coast than it is in middle America, this could explain the watered down nature of D3 football for traditionally strong east teams such as Ithaca and Union.

In 1988 I watched Cortland and Ithaca split two games against each other, and I was convinced those were the two best teams in the entire country. Since IC won the NCAA championship and Cortland was the only team to beat them (and play them very close in a loss), it looked very much like Cortland was the #2 team in the nation. Neither team could stack up against the Mount Union team I watched from the sidelines in 2008. I don't know how all of the talent level in D3 suddenly migrated toward a few schools, but it certainly did. And I find it incredibly dull.

If you are a Mount Union fan, do you honestly enjoy watching your in-conference games? What was the last exciting game you paid to see? Is beating a team 56-7 something you will remember forever? Yeah, Cortland football can't compare to Mount Union football. But I'd buy season tickets to watch Cortland in a heartbeat, and there were several very close games this season (including the playoffs) which made it all worthwhile.

I'm not sure that watching total domination is that much fun. And I'll put my money where my mouth is on that statement. I pretty much Live for Cortland lacrosse these days, and I drive to Cortland to watch 6-7 games per season. But I almost never bother to watch them play someone like SUNY Oneonta, because why waste time and money to watch them win 22-4? Seriously, what is it like buying season tickets to Mount Union football? Is there any drama at all? Or is the drama in waiting to see if the 3rd string running back will hit 200 yards rushing by the end of the 4th quarter? 

Dan,

I hope all is well with you. Your post makes sense, but MU can only play who is in the OAC plus one open game. Who really wants to get smoked by MU except Fisher. It reminds me of the time whem Montcair only played 8 games because nobody wanted to play them. I'm pulling for St. Thomas. Recruiting is the answer, IMHO.

[boobyhasgameyo]

To the point that D3 football athletes are better than ever -

I can't disagree with that point. However that is endemic of collegiate sports in general. U.S. Lacrosse and Soccer athletes are much stronger and faster than they were a few decades ago. We are more aware of quality training techniques now than we were 20 and 50 years ago. Heck, I'm in considerably better shape at age 44 than my parents and grandparents were at the same age. I know what weight training techniques make the most gains in the shortest amount of time.

But while the athleticism of the D3 football players is likely at an all-time high, I have serious doubts that the talent pool is nearly as deep as it once was. Unless we believe there are more kids interested in playing sports than ever before, I have to believe the growth in soccer's popularity has taken a large chunk of the pool of athletes once destined for football.

And since the growth in soccer seems to be at a higher arc on the east coast than it is in middle America, this could explain the watered down nature of D3 football for traditionally strong east teams such as Ithaca and Union.

In 1988 I watched Cortland and Ithaca split two games against each other, and I was convinced those were the two best teams in the entire country. Since IC won the NCAA championship and Cortland was the only team to beat them (and play them very close in a loss), it looked very much like Cortland was the #2 team in the nation. Neither team could stack up against the Mount Union team I watched from the sidelines in 2008. I don't know how all of the talent level in D3 suddenly migrated toward a few schools, but it certainly did. And I find it incredibly dull.

If you are a Mount Union fan, do you honestly enjoy watching your in-conference games? What was the last exciting game you paid to see? Is beating a team 56-7 something you will remember forever? Yeah, Cortland football can't compare to Mount Union football. But I'd buy season tickets to watch Cortland in a heartbeat, and there were several very close games this season (including the playoffs) which made it all worthwhile.

I'm not sure that watching total domination is that much fun. And I'll put my money where my mouth is on that statement. I pretty much Live for Cortland lacrosse these days, and I drive to Cortland to watch 6-7 games per season. But I almost never bother to watch them play someone like SUNY Oneonta, because why waste time and money to watch them win 22-4? Seriously, what is it like buying season tickets to Mount Union football? Is there any drama at all? Or is the drama in waiting to see if the 3rd string running back will hit 200 yards rushing by the end of the 4th quarter? 

Dan,

I hope all is well with you. Your post makes sense, but MU can only play who is in the OAC plus one open game. Who really wants to get smoked by MU except Fisher. It reminds me of the time whem Montcair only played 8 games because nobody wanted to play them. I'm pulling for St. Thomas. Recruiting is the answer, IMHO.

Whitewater scheduled them before they became the Whitewater we all know.  Bethel just signed a two year contract to play against them.  UW-Oshkosh who just made it to the semi-finals this year played against Mount Union last year.  Franklin who made the playoffs this year was their OOC opponent.  So apparently a lot of good teams want to play Mount Union. 

[Pat Coleman]

It's Bethany that will be playing Mount Union, not Bethel.

[Desertraider]

If you are a Mount Union fan, do you honestly enjoy watching your in-conference games? What was the last exciting game you paid to see? Is beating a team 56-7 something you will remember forever? Yeah, Cortland football can't compare to Mount Union football. But I'd buy season tickets to watch Cortland in a heartbeat, and there were several very close games this season (including the playoffs) which made it all worthwhile.

I have to be painfully honest here. The answers are as follows.
1. Yes - I love to see Mount play every conference game. Because you get to see what they have now, and what they will have next year. It's like getting a Varsity, JV and Freshman game all for one ticket.
2. Mount vs. Ohio Northern this year. I could not get to the others so it was the last one I saw.
3. Yes. I will remember the 54-0 over ONU this year for as long as I have remembered all the others including the 41-14 over Cortland State. I was there it was a great game - it really was a great game - and no disrespect to CSU is intended by that reference.

I never understood the "winning gets boring" mentality. The truth is that it doesn't get boring - or at least it hasn't yet. I did my undergrad at Hiram - who lost everygame and I think once lost to a happy meal in overtime. But I have been following Mount for 20+ years and still go to every game I can get to. Sorry to jump into your board - I will head on out now.

[Bombers798891]

I never understood the "winning gets boring" mentality.

I think the mentality isn't that winning itself is boring, but that winning when it's essentially a pre-determined blowout nearly every week is, well, a different kind of experience. I mean, I've seen Ithaca win games 66-0, and I've seen them come back in a similar fashion to the way Mount did this week. And while it's always fun to watch a blowout now and again, there's something enjoyable about watching an actual game as opposed to a ritual killing. One where there are momentum swings, and that play, right there, might be a game-changer, a season-changer, not just the first of eight touchdowns on the day, or the 19th of the 48 straight you scored at one point. You probably experienced one or two momentum swings all season. Honestly, while you may think this is sour grapes, and while part of me would love the Bombers to be as good as Mount, I think you're the one missing out.

I'm sure you won't care when you're counting trophy number, 16 in a week, but I think about the two game-winning touchdowns IC scored in the waning seconds against Union and Salisbury, and the goal-line stand against Cortland, and I'd take a season like that over one that features 85% blowouts.

[Ereraider]

I would rather win a national championship

[frank uible]

Different strokes.

[Bombers798891]

I would rather win a national championship

Me too, sometimes. Which is why I'm glad I've seen my team win two.

I just think there's a whole side to the experience of fandom that you miss when your team only plays one or two competitive games a year. But as Frank says, different strokes

[HScoach]

As someone who was watching Mount back when they stunk and Baldwin Wallace was the king, I can say with 100% honesty the last 18 years are  INFINITELY better.   Only someone who hasn't experienced greatness on a daily basis wishes for occasional spurts mixed amongst average.

Now I'll give you that the first title was the most fun simply because it was assumed to be an aberration, but they've all been special.   Each in they're own way.   And none of them, even the 97 team which was the greatest of the great, won a title without at least one game that they could/should have lost.

[Bombers798891]

Only someone who hasn't experienced greatness on a daily basis wishes for occasional spurts mixed amongst average.

Obviously, we want our teams to win. No one is saying you strive for being average over excellent. What I'm saying is that there are different ways to enjoy games, and enjoy seasons, than watching 56-7 type games roll off an assembly line for 15 weeks. While a lot of Mount fans have gotten to experience that feeling of being untouchable for 60 minutes (repeatedly), there are other things that they haven't probably experienced that are enjoyable as well.

For example, I'm a Michigan State fan. When they beat Wisconsin with the Hail Mary in 2011, or Notre Dame with the fake FG in 2010, those were just awesome, awesome moments. You don't get those moments in a 60-point blowout, and they're fun to experience. I understand of course, that, as an Ithaca fan, I've been able to experience the top of the mountain as well, so maybe I'm still in a minority compared to other East region fans.

[pg04]

I definitely see both sides of this discussion. However, I really don't know what it's like to support a championship team. No team that I root for in any sport has ever won a National/Professional championship.