East Region Playoff Discussion

[wally_wabash]

Alfred (hosted a 10-0 SUNY-Maritime team...I feel like I remember there being a paperwork problem or a facility problem with them?  Unconfirmed at this point.)

Ha!  Excellent reference. 

[Teamski]

Wally, no with 2 loses they have no chance to be #1 in the RR with Alfred being undefeated.  After that though, it will be intersting to see since some lost ahead of them.  In the end it does not matter since Wesley will win the NJAC and with the AQ will likely have a home game in whatever bracket they are in.  The east bracket with Husson in it will be easy pickings for someone in that half of the bracket since I believe only WNEW is within 500 miles of Husson. 

It is possible that Wesley could host a game, but I don't think I'd go as far as to say that it is likely.  2-loss teams hosting playoff games is a rare thing.  Rare enough that now I'm curious and I'm going to track down some numbers on that. 

We also don't know that Wesley will be in a quadrant with Husson/WNE, but if they are that's bad news for Wesley getting to a host a game.  One of those two teams has to host, and neither probably would were it not for the geography-forced matchup.  That means somebody that would host a first round won't get to.

Yeah, I would be surprised if Wesley got a first round home game with 2 losses.  I have a feeling that another trip to JHU is going to be in the cards early on.

-Ski

[ITH radio]

Loaded show with interviews from SLUvsHOB, ECAC Interim Commish John Rollins and Frank's Rd 2 East Region Rankings predictions and justifications.

[AUPepBand]

Ok, so going back to 2011, here's the list of 2-loss teams that hosted first round tournament games:

2010:
Alfred (hosted a 10-0 SUNY-Maritime team...I feel like I remember there being a paperwork problem or a facility problem with them?  Unconfirmed at this point.)

SUNY Maritime (10-0) was #3 seed and Alfred (8-2) was #6 seed in the Mount Union bracket but game was moved to Alfred because SUNY Maritime for some reason could not host (either paperwork or facility issue). AU was up 50-0 at halftime.

[saxontad]

My memory is it was 2010 not 2011 for the SUNY-Maritime game.  Isn't that right Pep?

[saxontad]

Never mind.  I misread the post!!

[AUPepBand]

My memory is it was 2010 not 2011 for the SUNY-Maritime game.  Isn't that right Pep?

What KaZ00 said:

[boobyhasgameyo]

Just sitting here getting sad for some of the worthy teams who won't make the playoffs this season...while other more undeserving squads make it via the automatic bid.  The potential exists that JCU, Platteville, St. John Fisher, Wabash won't make the field depending on how the final week pans out. 

Proposed solution: 

Maintain all the current requirements to receive a Pool A bid but also add the requirement that the conference must also have an OOC record above .500 that season.  Otherwise the bid is forfeited and sent to Pool C, where that conference champion can be considered along with all other Pool C candidates. 

It would penalize the conferences that shafted everyone else by grouping together a bunch of poor teams and stealing away a bid (shout out to the ECFCs of the world).  Put Platteville in that conference or the MASCAC and see what happens.

If conferences try and get around it by scheduling nothing but cupcakes in their OOC well then i'd say this:

1.  There are only so many games that can be scheduled with the subpar teams 
2.  If let's say to give themselves a fighting chance all MASCAC teams played ECFC teams for their OOC then it is essentially combining the two conferences to give 1 bid for all intents and purposes.  A good thing. 

Above .500.  So a conference like CC this year with Johnny Hops which finished their OOC at .500 would forfeit it this year and JHU would be in Pool C consideration and get in that way. 

I'm happy with this.  It would reward teams who actually play in tough conferences and pickup losses in there that remove them from the playoffs when they are better than half (or more) of the actual playoff field.  It can't hurt. 

Pat...let's get on the horn with some NCAA contacts and make this happen. 

[Teamski]

Just sitting here getting sad for some of the worthy teams who won't make the playoffs this season...while other more undeserving squads make it via the automatic bid.  The potential exists that JCU, Platteville, St. John Fisher, Wabash won't make the field depending on how the final week pans out. 

Proposed solution: 

Maintain all the current requirements to receive a Pool A bid but also add the requirement that the conference must also have an OOC record above .500 that season.  Otherwise the bid is forfeited and sent to Pool C, where that conference champion can be considered along with all other Pool C candidates. 

It would penalize the conferences that shafted everyone else by grouping together a bunch of poor teams and stealing away a bid (shout out to the ECFCs of the world).  Put Platteville in that conference or the MASCAC and see what happens.

If conferences try and get around it by scheduling nothing but cupcakes in their OOC well then i'd say this:

1.  There are only so many games that can be scheduled with the subpar teams 
2.  If let's say to give themselves a fighting chance all MASCAC teams played ECFC teams for their OOC then it is essentially combining the two conferences to give 1 bid for all intents and purposes.  A good thing. 

Above .500.  So a conference like CC this year with Johnny Hops which finished their OOC at .500 would forfeit it this year and JHU would be in Pool C consideration and get in that way. 

I'm happy with this.  It would reward teams who actually play in tough conferences and pickup losses in there that remove them from the playoffs when they are better than half (or more) of the actual playoff field.  It can't hurt. 

Pat...let's get on the horn with some NCAA contacts and make this happen.

I cannot disagree more.  Look, this is the case every year, but there is a reason why the playoffs are set up the way they are.  You have to consider each conference on its own.  Recruiting, academic selectivity, location, funding, etc, etc, etc all have an effect on the quality of the conferences themselves.   To place an arbitrary baseline is unfair to those who succeeded in their respective conference.  You are forgetting that the playoffs once had but half the number of teams. Now THAT was unfair.   If we had it your way, we might as well do away with conferences altogether.

-Ski

[boobyhasgameyo]

Just sitting here getting sad for some of the worthy teams who won't make the playoffs this season...while other more undeserving squads make it via the automatic bid.  The potential exists that JCU, Platteville, St. John Fisher, Wabash won't make the field depending on how the final week pans out. 

Proposed solution: 

Maintain all the current requirements to receive a Pool A bid but also add the requirement that the conference must also have an OOC record above .500 that season.  Otherwise the bid is forfeited and sent to Pool C, where that conference champion can be considered along with all other Pool C candidates. 

It would penalize the conferences that shafted everyone else by grouping together a bunch of poor teams and stealing away a bid (shout out to the ECFCs of the world).  Put Platteville in that conference or the MASCAC and see what happens.

If conferences try and get around it by scheduling nothing but cupcakes in their OOC well then i'd say this:

1.  There are only so many games that can be scheduled with the subpar teams 
2.  If let's say to give themselves a fighting chance all MASCAC teams played ECFC teams for their OOC then it is essentially combining the two conferences to give 1 bid for all intents and purposes.  A good thing. 

Above .500.  So a conference like CC this year with Johnny Hops which finished their OOC at .500 would forfeit it this year and JHU would be in Pool C consideration and get in that way. 

I'm happy with this.  It would reward teams who actually play in tough conferences and pickup losses in there that remove them from the playoffs when they are better than half (or more) of the actual playoff field.  It can't hurt. 

Pat...let's get on the horn with some NCAA contacts and make this happen.

I cannot disagree more.  Look, this is the case every year, but there is a reason why the playoffs are set up the way they are.  You have to consider each conference on its own.  Recruiting, academic selectivity, location, funding, etc, etc, etc all have an effect on the quality of the conferences themselves.   To place an arbitrary baseline is unfair to those who succeeded in their respective conference.  You are forgetting that the playoffs once had but half the number of teams. Now THAT was unfair.   If we had it your way, we might as well do away with conferences altogether.

-Ski

Yeah, I know conferences have other objectives and circumstances.  But if the end goal of those objectives creates a representive that is losing to Alfred 50-0 at halftime...how does that help the tournament?  If a conference isn't placing a premium on competitiveness on a national level then they shouldn't be bent out of shape if they don't make a national tournament.  Stick to the bowl games or get better and produce meaningful competition.  If there is a team in the conference who is actually deserving then they'd be eligible along with all of the other Pool C teams.  It would make the tournament more accurately representing the best teams in the country than it is right now. 

Sure, ultimately D3 comes down to about 4-6 teams anyway who can win it all and everyone else is just trying to get there.  But reward the teams who are closer to getting there now.  And if a team like Platteville misses it this year, who is to say they couldn't make a run to the semi finals or finals if they were to just get in.  But nah, that bid went to Team X of terrible conference Y. 

[boobyhasgameyo]

But we can agree to disagree on my brilliant idea 

If enough people hate the idea then I will yell for Pat to hang up the phone just as he is dialing the number to speak to the NCAA overlord.  It will be a scene straight out of a movie. 

[RtSLl3100]

Most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. Why punish a team or conference based on ideals. Also take the CC or NJAC or OACwho have a 10 team conference therefore can only schedule 1 out of conference game. Now yes each team should try to schedule a respectable opponent for that 1 game but have to get other team to agree. Then comes the aspect of d3 budgets for travel, etc. one last point is then saying a team like Mount Union should not be able to qualify for an AQ because they are around .455. Nice try but teams EARN AQ's, some have a harder road than others but these kids still go out week after week with the same goal...playing for a chance at a national title

[boobyhasgameyo]

Again, transferring the OAC's pool A to a C is still giving the same exact bid to Mount Union since they would make the tournament.  Or any other large conference who has a limited set of OOC games, and a clear team who belongs in the playoffs.  Are you not getting that point?  The only teams it would truly impact are the conference winners of bad conferences AND that conference winner is likely a bad team themself.   

And it's not punishing a conference for their ideals.  If you have a conference whose ideals is to be the best collection of academic institutions in America, then great.  Make it so.  If that collection happens to all be terrible at football...why rob a more deserving team who maybe places their ideals and efforts into athletics?  That's potentially a bigger injustice. 

And hey, if the conference improves their product as a whole then they would be rewarded.  Think of it as an incentive to be better as opposed to a punitive measure if that helps the idea appeal to you more 

But you're right, the current system is excellent.  All of those competitive first round games while top 15 teams are sitting at home. 

I swear, you guys are tossing out the hyperbole with statements like "couldn't disagree more" and "most ridiculous idea I've ever heard."  It's not like I said Trump should be president.  Hey-oh! 

But seriously...rock the vote tomorrow.

[AUKaz00]

But seriously...rock the vote tomorrow.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Worst idea ever.

[RtSLl3100]

Current system is not great but it works for the system. I think a better idea for your beloved uwp or JCU is expand the playoff field again. Not doubling it but maybe giving these "elite" teams a first round bye so we don't see a mhbu v hsu first round due to travel.
But to say uwp is deserving of a playoff bid bc they are in a tough conference(arguably the best in d3 this year) that's why they have 2 losses is what is ridiculous. Fact remains recruit better or have a better game plan and be the one to win the close games. I doubt anyone would argue saying they are not good enough to win a play off game compared to some of the other teams that make the field, still those other teams did what they were supposed to do to get into the tournament and not worry about what if situations or having a committee of people decide if they should make the tournament.
And your notion that mt union or a Hopkins would still get in but just as a pool c instead of a pool a bid just makes even less sense if your are saying the deserve to still get in, just not be a guarantee??