East Region Playoff Discussion

[Jonny Utah]

Sorry...too quick on the button and I apologize as I am just catching up with the posters from the weekend.  With regard to above....geesh, do you think you could come up with more current references?  1987, 1994, 1996....you are living in the past.

clandfan read back further.  I was responding to a post to Mel who wanted to use a 1987 ECAC game as an example of NE teams being dangerous.  I wanted to show there were 10X as many examples the other way is all.

[Knightstalker]

Man, you have a lot of misdirected anger.

I have stated that the Union College special teams units have cost the team wins this year.  That being said, on November 8 at about 9:00pm, I discussed my concerns with members of the Union staff at the Parker Inn in Schenectady.  You know what....the coached agreed with me and stated that the performance of that unit had already been discussed and would be a focus of next years team.

Frank, you continue to bash Union's AD through me.....very misdirected....as I said to you before, you should sack up and contact the AD instead of being the professional you are and slamming him in public on message boards.

I simply sell medical equipment in the Boston area, I have no control over what happens in Schenectady...a little FYI for ya.

Ummm... Thanks for the monologue.  Now would you mind defending your point regarding the ECACs?  I'm not sure where Union's Special Teams and the ECAC games exactly mesh here. 

I included the post from last night where you again brought up the AD....did you miss that?

Could you both please take it off the boards, you are both getting very old and tired with this bullSH!#.

[union89]

My main point to RT is that he stated that RPI had 5 straight post season appearances.  Four of those appearances were ECAC games....I stated my feelings that there is a HUGE difference with lumping both ECAC and NCAA games together as 'Postseason'.

[Pat Coleman]

I know there's been a lot of discussion about the playing of everyone by St. John Fisher. With SJF traveling 10 hours to the game and having to pick up its own tab (unlike an NCAA game, where the NCAA pays the travel expenses for 52 people and 10 coaches/support staff), I can see why SJF might've chosen to take this route. I would have to think the travel roster was somewhere in the 52-man range the NCAA provides, so it's not like they were playing 100 kids.

[Frank Rossi]

Man, you have a lot of misdirected anger.

I have stated that the Union College special teams units have cost the team wins this year.  That being said, on November 8 at about 9:00pm, I discussed my concerns with members of the Union staff at the Parker Inn in Schenectady.  You know what....the coached agreed with me and stated that the performance of that unit had already been discussed and would be a focus of next years team.

Frank, you continue to bash Union's AD through me.....very misdirected....as I said to you before, you should sack up and contact the AD instead of being the professional you are and slamming him in public on message boards.

I simply sell medical equipment in the Boston area, I have no control over what happens in Schenectady...a little FYI for ya.

Ummm... Thanks for the monologue.  Now would you mind defending your point regarding the ECACs?  I'm not sure where Union's Special Teams and the ECAC games exactly mesh here. 

I included the post from last night where you again brought up the AD....did you miss that?

Could you both please take it off the boards, you are both getting very old and tired with this bullSH!#.

I've given my number twice.  The phone has yet to ring.

[clandfan]

Sorry...too quick on the button and I apologize as I am just catching up with the posters from the weekend.  With regard to above....geesh, do you think you could come up with more current references?  1987, 1994, 1996....you are living in the past.

clandfan read back further.  I was responding to a post to Mel who wanted to use a 1987 ECAC game as an example of NE teams being dangerous.  I wanted to show there were 10X as many examples the other way is all.

Apologies...I was hoping however that I would be catching up on the scuttlebutt about Curry v. Cortland and other playoff games and all I am reading about is  history older than many of the kids currently playing.

[union89]

Nobody is saying that ECAC games are primary "goals" per se.  What we're saying, those who agree with me, is that the goal is for a postseason game (much like the 16-year-old football player's goal is to play in college).  Now the specific goal is to play in the NCAA Playoffs (akin to playing at an FBS school for the 16-year-old player).  Only 15% of the teams will get to meet that goal in Division III (the 16-year-old player faces probably lower odds in terms of players who aim to achieve a spot on FBS teams).  If the team falls short, they are still generally excited to be:

1) Recognized for their accomplishments on the field that year with a potential ECAC bid; and

2) Playing an additional game against a very good team to see how far the team has come that season in a variety of senses.

(for the 16-year-old player, he may be offered a spot on a D-3 team, which recognizes his accomplishments on the field and allows him to play at a collegiate level to see how he matches up and to continue his football growth).

My point is this -- just because our PRIMARY aim is not the ECACs doesn't render them meaningless.  If you buy into that theory, then seriously, you're rendering a secondary level of many things, including lower divisions of college football, meaningless unless you are going to sit there and be a hypocrite.  I'd wager that a good number of the people trying to dictate this type of point are the same people who will watch the Las Vegas Bowl, the St. Petersburg Bowl, etc... These are secondary, meaningless games, too, if you feel the ECAC games are meaningless.  They come from the same basic premise -- there's a desire for the teams, fans and schools to participate in such a game.  If you truly don't want to play, DON'T FILE.  Simply stated.

[Edit:  And to this whole "they don't count" point -- BULLSH**.  The games still last four quarters, are sanctioned by the NCAA, have a winner and a loser, abide by the rules of College Football and still rely on the teams to play their butts off against most likely a team as good as, if not better than, most teams the team has played that season.  This weekend provides even MORE evidence to the meaning and purposes of these games -- and yet, some people are going to sit here and attempt to discredit them?  ON WHAT BASIS?  I challenge all of you naysayers to go to the ECACs PP right now (since we're off-topic here) and post your bases instead of just dogging the damned games without justification.  JU maybe gave us the most sensible discussion so far related to that side of the argument, but his answer seems to suggest he reaches an inconclusive point, with the point riding on who the beholder is of the games.  C'mon now -- state your cause if you really want to convince people here.  U89 took 12 hours since he saw my post to say he'd rather lose an NCAA game than win an ECAC game.  WOW.  No sh** dufus.  Teams don't CHOOSE whether they get an NCAA slot or not.  Your arguments are really underwhelming.]

I'm attempting to have a conversation and I get called a 'dufus'......should I ignore it again, as I have in the past?  I asked to be ignored by him as I dismiss anything he says.

[Jonny Utah]

While Im waiting for my grilled cheese (gro did you see 'blizzard man' Sat night?), Id like to make a final point....

I think we can all agree that the ECACs are like the NIT and the NCAA playoffs are like.....well the NCAA playoffs?

I mean ask yourself, what would you rather be, the d3 NCAA champion, or the ECAC champion?  The answer is easy.  But sometimes different football teams or programs find themselves in different spots at the end of the season.  

Go back to the d1 b-ball example.  

-There are going to be large conference teams that are upset they didnt make the field of 64, and end up in the NIT.  It happens.  They can still go out and play some more basketball.  

-Then there are the teams from smaller conferences, who know they arent going to make it, but might have a chance to prove something in the NIT against those large conference schools who didnt make it.  

-Then there are the teams who might have been new to d1, and now have a chance to showcase something on a bigger stage.

-Then there are the teams who might have started the season with a bunch of losses, and knew they werent going to make the playoffs.  They might have come back strong at the end of the season and were looking for something to prove.

-Then there might be some programs who have been down for a while who are now back up and might have a chance to prove something.

The list goes on and on and the more I type, the more pointless the whole thing seems to me.

ECAC's are good in some situations, but they should never be the overall goal of a football team that is serious about playing d3 football.  Playoffs are there for a reason.

To further the point, I would rather lose an NCAA game than win an ECAC game.

Well in the grand scheme of things I agree, but I bet the Husson players (if they had won) would feel a lot better about their season than the Ithaca players do right now.  And thats not a shot against the IC guys, but losing at any round stings.

How about the Fisher staff playing the whole roster?  Were the Cardinals, 'taking the game seriously'?  Would they have played everyone had it been an NCAA game?

Yea good point I didn't know that happened.  

[Frank Rossi]

I'm attempting to have a conversation and I get called a 'dufus'......should I ignore it again, as I have in the past?  I asked to be ignored by him as I dismiss anything he says.

You've manufactured this idea that teams AIM for ECAC games.  Then you use this strange point to dig in against the ECAC games and their meaning again.  You're using circular reasoning, and now that I've called you on that point, all you can do is point to y comment that the AD, YOUR FRIEND AND FORMER TEAMMATE (and was he a fraternity brother?) has probably weighed in with you on his feelings.  Then you bring up Union's Special Teams?

Instead of smokescreening and crying wolf, why don't you answer the points I made?  Thanks.

[union89]

I know there's been a lot of discussion about the playing of everyone by St. John Fisher. With SJF traveling 10 hours to the game and having to pick up its own tab (unlike an NCAA game, where the NCAA pays the travel expenses for 52 people and 10 coaches/support staff), I can see why SJF might've chosen to take this route. I would have to think the travel roster was somewhere in the 52-man range the NCAA provides, so it's not like they were playing 100 kids.

Oh, I totally understand your point.  I am also not saying that the Fisher staff necessarily did the wrong thing by playing 2nd stringers.  My only point is that there is no way the playing time would have been sliced up this way if it were a 'true' Postseason game.

[clandfan]

So....how about some east regional playoff discussion.  How does Cortland stop Curry's QB?

[SJFF82]

I know there's been a lot of discussion about the playing of everyone by St. John Fisher. With SJF traveling 10 hours to the game and having to pick up its own tab (unlike an NCAA game, where the NCAA pays the travel expenses for 52 people and 10 coaches/support staff), I can see why SJF might've chosen to take this route. I would have to think the travel roster was somewhere in the 52-man range the NCAA provides, so it's not like they were playing 100 kids.

Oh, I totally understand your point.  I am also not saying that the Fisher staff necessarily did the wrong thing by playing 2nd stringers.  My only point is that there is no way the playing time would have been sliced up this way if it were a 'true' Postseason game.

Has anyone defined a "true" play-off game?  Obviously, an ECAC game is not a NCAA play-off game.  But it is a game....which is an opportunity to compete....which is an opportunity to preapare, work hard, create a lasting memory, bond with teammates, take one last bus-ride/road-trip....and WIN!  Who can argue against that?  If you argue against that, you either never played the game, never appreciated the game you played or are simply voicing an opinion in this vacuum called "Post Patterns"

If there is a game, and you are in it....you take it seriously and play to win.  To suggest that SJF didnt take the game seriously while pretending that you know the team is ignorant. 

Like someone said....52 players playing is not exactly like suiting up the 3rd string JV player who hasnt played a down yet.  It is called a TEAM for a reason.  It's kinda like with injuries.  Someone has to step in with no excuses.  Are the Patriots not taking things seriously because they stuck by Cassel, an unproven unknown, instead of going after a back-up with experience somewhere...ie:Culpepper?   

SJF won the game with the team they put on the field.  Is it ok for the coaches to reason that they could accomplish many desired goals in that game:  play the seniors
            compete
            have fun
            WIN???

Nobody said that the ECAC is the equivalent of the NCAA!  But those who are suggesting that a game, where there are real winners and losers, and real memories being etched that will last a lifetime, doesnt really matter, are morons!!!

Is a million dollars money to Bill Gates?  No   But it is to me!   When I was a senior on a program that I helped build from 0-9 (2tds on the whole season) to a program that went 7-3, beating the likes of a solid RPI team, beating a very good Catholic team on the road, among others....you better believe a whole bunch of us gathered at Coach V's office to await the telephone call from the ECAC committee...unfortunately it never came.  But as I posted a couple weeks ago...our last regualr season game was a victory which helps lessen the sting over time.  To say that you would reather win NCAA than lose ECAC is a bit narrow.  Obviously I would rather be in the position that got the NCAA berth (sure the ride to get there was more fun than the ride to an ECAC berth), but when it is all said and done...ask IC seniors if they would rather be SJF Seniors yesterday morning? 

['gro]

Chemically enhanced cavemen are missing one key element that curry has in abundance:
PURPLE DRANK

Symbol: Pd
# Electrons: 47
# Protons: 58
# 'Gro-trons: 14

vs.

Get your drank on @ The Chugger - 11/29/08

IT'S SCIENCE

[pg04]

Man, you have a lot of misdirected anger.

I have stated that the Union College special teams units have cost the team wins this year.  That being said, on November 8 at about 9:00pm, I discussed my concerns with members of the Union staff at the Parker Inn in Schenectady.  You know what....the coached agreed with me and stated that the performance of that unit had already been discussed and would be a focus of next years team.

Frank, you continue to bash Union's AD through me.....very misdirected....as I said to you before, you should sack up and contact the AD instead of being the professional you are and slamming him in public on message boards.

I simply sell medical equipment in the Boston area, I have no control over what happens in Schenectady...a little FYI for ya.

Ummm... Thanks for the monologue.  Now would you mind defending your point regarding the ECACs?  I'm not sure where Union's Special Teams and the ECAC games exactly mesh here. 

I included the post from last night where you again brought up the AD....did you miss that?

Could you both please take it off the boards, you are both getting very old and tired with this bullSH!#.

Agreed! AGAIN! 

[K-Mack]

I admit to not be a follower of the teams from other regions, but how does Mt. Union draw a 4 loss Randolph-Macon team in the first round.  Also, do they stand a snowballs chance in hell of pulling the upset?

I don't get the question.  How do they draw a 4 loss team???  Well, they moved Randolph-Macon to the East.  They were an automatic bid.  They got the 8 seed.  Mount Union was also moved to the East.  They are the best team ever assembled.  They got a 1 seed.  1 plays 8.  Cool?

And no, Randolph-Macon doesn't stand a snowball in hell's chance at pulling an upset.  They lost to MAC bottom Feeder King's...

OK, I didn't know they were an automatic bid, I saw they were in a four way tie in their conference and 2 of the teams were 8-2. 

From the ODAC - and the alma mater of D3fb's own K-Mack

Should I cringe or beam with pride?

The Purple Drank posts from the same page had me rolling.