Should the Stagg Bowl find a better site or stay in Salem, Va.

[K-Mack]

Jonny,
OK, same questions, but with "super-fest" in there instead of warm weather locale (or both)

I agree with most of this, on a base level anyway. You have a set number of fans that are going either way, and at least half of them haven't bought tickets or made reservations until a week or two before the game.

You have x number of local walk-ups no matter where you are.

So what you're saying is there's a group of die-hard D3 fans that would pay to go to the game if there were a reason to go besides just the game.

How many of those would you guess there are? You, me and the people reading this thread. How many more?

How much do you think a warm weather locale would boost attendance? 50 people? 500?1,000? 5,000?

What is the number (in your opinion here, I'm not asking you to function like a D3 official) to make it worth the change?

I'm trying to figure out how important you think the attendance figure is, aside from all the support and travel costs for the NCAA and all that stuff.

Because if there's one thing we know, it's that if there's enough money in it, anything's possible.

[Jonny Utah]

well bottom line, Im not going anywhere that its cold to watch football games in december unless Ithaca is playing or if the game is 3 hours away from me (maybe 4-5 if its in NYC)

lax can have the games in the northeast because its going to be nice on memorial day no matter where you are in the country.  That gives lax an advantage.

Thats why I think a nice weather place is real important for me.

Maybe theres somewhere in the northeast that can build a stadium similar to Idaho, N. Arizona or those dakota schools.  If you can do that in a place like NYC then you can have the event there.

I also like the idea like lacrosse where you have 3 championship games at one place.  To be honest, Mt. union, Grand Valley state, and Umass are three teams that I would love to see in person play.  Of course I played d3 but all three of these divisions have some good football to watch.

[Jonny Utah]

Jonny,
OK, same questions, but with "super-fest" in there instead of warm weather locale (or both)

I agree with most of this, on a base level anyway. You have a set number of fans that are going either way, and at least half of them haven't bought tickets or made reservations until a week or two before the game.

You have x number of local walk-ups no matter where you are.

So what you're saying is there's a group of die-hard D3 fans that would pay to go to the game if there were a reason to go besides just the game.

How many of those would you guess there are? You, me and the people reading this thread. How many more?

How much do you think a warm weather locale would boost attendance? 50 people? 500?1,000? 5,000?

What is the number (in your opinion here, I'm not asking you to function like a D3 official) to make it worth the change?

I'm trying to figure out how important you think the attendance figure is, aside from all the support and travel costs for the NCAA and all that stuff.

Because if there's one thing we know, it's that if there's enough money in it, anything's possible.

and to answer your questions, I think your overall goal is to make it like lacrosse, and thats to have nice weather and 50K fans that weekend.

Who else is going to go to the games?  Not an easy question to answer.  But you can say that all the 1-AA coaches that dont make it go to the 1-AA game and would go to the d3 game as well.  Its like the AFCA convention....coaches love going to that thing.  Its not all about the clinics, its about meeting old friends, looking for new jobs, etc...

but yea, theres not an easy answer right way. 

But it should be the goal for the NCAA to have the 1-AA,2,3 weekend to be like the lax weekend.  I think it could be done.

[allsky7]

Jonny,
OK, same questions, but with "super-fest" in there instead of warm weather locale (or both)

I agree with most of this, on a base level anyway. You have a set number of fans that are going either way, and at least half of them haven't bought tickets or made reservations until a week or two before the game.

You have x number of local walk-ups no matter where you are.

So what you're saying is there's a group of die-hard D3 fans that would pay to go to the game if there were a reason to go besides just the game.

How many of those would you guess there are? You, me and the people reading this thread. How many more?

How much do you think a warm weather locale would boost attendance? 50 people? 500?1,000? 5,000?

What is the number (in your opinion here, I'm not asking you to function like a D3 official) to make it worth the change?

I'm trying to figure out how important you think the attendance figure is, aside from all the support and travel costs for the NCAA and all that stuff.

Because if there's one thing we know, it's that if there's enough money in it, anything's possible.

and to answer your questions, I think your overall goal is to make it like lacrosse, and thats to have nice weather and 50K fans that weekend.

Who else is going to go to the games?  Not an easy question to answer.  But you can say that all the 1-AA coaches that dont make it go to the 1-AA game and would go to the d3 game as well.  Its like the AFCA convention....coaches love going to that thing.  Its not all about the clinics, its about meeting old friends, looking for new jobs, etc...

but yea, theres not an easy answer right way. 

But it should be the goal for the NCAA to have the 1-AA,2,3 weekend to be like the lax weekend.  I think it could be done.

      Man....you guys are on a roll here. Said I was done with this topic but....... Ok, let me start by saying that I admit that I have a Salem/VA/ODAC bias. I am trying to keep an open mind here about this debate.
     I just think when you make a pro/con list, the pro's of keeping it in Salem outweigh the cons considerably. (all things taken into account)
     Question Jonny...If you did a combo type of weekend, how would you do the schedule of games? One Friday night, one Saturday afternoon, and one Saturday night? Would you rotate the schedule from year to year or would I-AA always get the prime time slot. Would ESPN be willing/able to broadcast all three games in such a short period of time. Your talking 10 plus hours of program time in one weekend. D3/D2/I-AA football versus D1 basketball...guess who wins that battle? God forbid ESPN having to short championship POKER!!  WHEW, I'm exausted.  Throw in a little Stone Station and it certainly wouldn't leave much time for golf or shopping . The week before Christmas I think you will be hard pressed to make this more than a 3 day event, max. On the surface, the combo thing has some merit maybe but logistically, I think you have problems. Lax has a holiday weekend to pull their thing off. And as previously mentioned, lax has more of a "cult" following. I don't see that same relationship between D3 football and the other divisions. At least not nearly to the same level as lax.
     I think the strongest argument for moving the Stagg away from Salem would be to move it somewhere like OH, somewhere more centrally located to more D3 schools/fans. Then you get back to issues like weather and what local is willing to make the effort required to put this event on right. It is a showcase event in Salem.
    I think as far as attendance goes, 5-7k is realistic no matter where the game is played. Maybe 10k max on a good year like 2001 when Bridgewater was there. Obviously, attendance is important because $ makes the world spin around. Maybe one day D3 will draw 10k plus crowds. I think we are a few years away from that.
     I'm sure this is an on going process. Salem will have challengers. I think the decision makers should/will think long and hard before moving the game elsewhere.
     Ok folks, just went back and read this post. My apologies for the rambling. Just tough to get all my thoughts organized on this topic because there are so many. I'll stop now. 

   

['gro]

I know my posts seem anti-salem, I am in favor of moving the stagg if and only if the bidding city put a slam dunk proposal on the table. it would have to be head and shoulders above the rest.

That being said, if somehow Gro gave up his day job, he could bring the Stagg to a nice warm locale somewhere inbetween Tampa and Daytona and put 5,000 in the seats year 1, 8,000 year 2. guaranteed.

to learn more, please send $49.95 via paypal to gro@grobiznassideas.com

[allsky7]

I know my posts seem anti-salem, I am in favor of moving the stagg if and only if the bidding city put a slam dunk proposal on the table. it would have to be head and shoulders above the rest.

That being said, if somehow Gro gave up his day job, he could bring the Stagg to a nice warm locale somewhere inbetween Tampa and Daytona and put 5,000 in the seats year 1, 8,000 year 2. guarunteed.

to learn more, please send $49.95 via paypal to gro@grobiznassideas.com

     Ok...I am going to put this topic to rest...AGAIN.  (unless someone really...really twist my arm  ) One thing is for sure. Tomorrow, the Stagg Bowl IS in Salem. SOOOOOOO... I am going to go to Stone Station and toss back a beverage or two with my fellow D3 brothers and sisters and just enjoy 60 degree and sunny weather. And oh yeah, there just might be a helluva football game going on close by too. 

[JT]

Go for Vegas.... they have more $$$ than the NCAA's.  So dropping some coin on sponsoring a football game would be easy.  You'd get the LL planning mancations to Vegas in June.... couples (Me) planning to head out. Golf, gambling, shopping etc.,

How do you explain Salem, VA  to a significant other? 

She: What's there to do?

Me: Not much.  Wanna go to a bonfire?

Point.

Although "not much to do" means you focus on the game.

And frankly, I don't need to be dragged to all the big-name outlets, shopping hot spots and spas when I'm trying to get my tailgate on, y'nahmean?

I wouldn't be go shopping unless it was for tailgating material.  If it isn't my team, I  would just be enjoying the atmosphere and hopefully a good game.  And in all honesty, the game would have to be much bigger than it is in order to be move to a "hot spot". 

The Salem location almost guarentees that at least one team is going to bus in.  Coppell would change that dynamic.  Unless they are ponying up a lot more dough, they won't get the Stagg.

[janesvilleflash]

The key word in this topic is BETTER. Of course, if you can find something better, you should do it. So far, I haven't seen anything that is a slam dunk for being better, so till then, Salem it is. Should always be looking though.

[JT]

I don't think you can get the Stagg in a better place logistically.  Its fun to think about other places, but then the game would have to be a bigger draw.

[tmerton]

Dallas weather in December can be very unpredictable and you would not likely get any local media coverage.  If you aren't the Dallas Cowboys, or maybe the Longhorns, you don't get coverage.  You can hide 8-10,000 fans very comfortably in Texas Stadium.

Or you can play the Stagg in one of the Texas High School football palaces, like you find at Southlake Carroll High School, or the functional Plano Independent School District's Clark Field or another similar facility.

Keep it someplace where it is a big deal and fans can drive there, like Salem VA.  It is on its way to becoming a special place for D3 fans.

I don't disagree about Dallas weather but if you want to bury the Stagg Bowl with a maximum of 5,000 attendance, keep it in Salem.

You should come to one first before you trash it.

I apologize for the use of the term bury; I'm not meaning to trash Salem or diminish the work and effort that others have put into the Stagg Bowl there.  On the issue of attendance, however, am I wrong?  Is there any chance the Stagg Bowl, played on a stand alone basis in Salem, VA, will draw more than 5 or maybe 6 thousand for a game? 

I'm not likely to go to a Stagg Bowl in Salem unless my team is playing in it.  I think the same holds true for everyone else except you, some ESPN people and a few locals - which is precisely the point I am making. 

So how would that be different in Coppell, Texas, Minneapolis, Evansville, Ind., Florida or any of the other places that have been suggested?

At least the Canton backer made a really good case for how it would be attended and how the volunteer model is already in place (plus we have the hook-up at Massillon, call Waynesburg!)

"I'm not likely to go to a Stagg Bowl in Salem unless my team is playing in it."

That's probably a fact across D3, and with fans in general ... and has little to do with Salem. A lot of people would probably consider it no matter who's playing if it was a day trip away from home. Otherwise, there would have to be a real reason to want to go.

What makes you think that the number of random fans it has in Salem would be greater anywhere else, besides Ohio? At least Salem locals know what the game is now, and have the experience of following it.

And what's so important about going from 5,000 to maybe 7,500 in attendance anyway? The key groups to impress are the teams and their fans. Anything else is gravy.

I can see why it would be fair to rotate it to some other more-westerly but still-centrally-located place similar to Salem, but in the Central Time Zone maybe ... but as someone mentioned, there is a pretty high standard that Salem has set that the new city would have to meet.

And for the record, attendance spiked to almost 10,000 when Bridgewater (1 hour away) was in it. Certainly having it closer to Mount Union could boost attendance numbers.

But look at the history of the game, too. It was tried in Kings Island, Ohio. It was in Bradenton, Fla. It was in Phenix City, Ala. The attendance numbers from those Stagg Bowls aren't dissimilar to the ones today, and D3 was better-attended overall in the 70s and 80s.

Jeez, K-Mack, wha'd you do, take yesterday off?  I didn't expect to find 3 new pages of posts this morning.  All very thoughtful for the most part.  I'm not sure I can add anything to what has already been said.  I probably put too much emphasis on the attendance issue; it's just that 5K just seems very small for a national championship game.  I also may put too much emphasis on the weather and the location.  I'll even say that suburban DFW doesn't sound like it would necessarily be better (I remember the 79 Cotton Bowl when Joe Montana almost froze to death from the cold and wind chill).  Anyway, I expect my team to be in Salem sometime in the next 3 years, so I'll check it out then.

[tmerton]

Article on the Stagg Bowl from the Roanoke Times touches on many of the issues we've been discussing.

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/college/wb/95931

[Bill McCabe]

Salem is a great setting for the game.  Weather can be a little harsh, but most of the teams are from that type of climate anyway.  The only drawback I see to the site is it is a little difficult to get to, at least it was for us from Texas.

[Jonny Utah]

allsky7 asks..... Question Jonny...If you did a combo type of weekend, how would you do the schedule of games? One Friday night, one Saturday afternoon, and one Saturday night? Would you rotate the schedule from year to year or would I-AA always get the prime time slot. Would ESPN be willing/able to broadcast all three games in such a short period of time. Your talking 10 plus hours of program time in one weekend. D3/D2/I-AA football versus D1 basketball.

You could absoutly have it fri/sat morning and sat night.  And I dont think the prime timeslot matters.  I mean Umass is playing tonight on espn.  Now the d3 game is on tomorrow as the same time as some college basketball.  Im not worried about the tv ratings.  Those are going to be the same no matter when you have them for d3.

tonight Umass is on ESPN2 against NBA basketball on ESPN

Tomorrow d3 is on ESPN against Bradley/Iowa St basketball on ESPN2

I mean TV means very little as long as the games are on either 1 or 2

[K-Mack]

The key word in this topic is BETTER. Of course, if you can find something better, you should do it. So far, I haven't seen anything that is a slam dunk for being better, so till then, Salem it is. Should always be looking though.

Fair enough.

TMerton,
No, I did not take yesterday off. I was at work, and I couldn't leave until I read the last NBA file. That's part of the job. However, everything else was done and there was like a quarter to go in the late game, so there you have it ... free time to go back and read and respond. You could get paid to do worse things!

[bushman]

If they can  give us weather like today, stay in Virginia.