FB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

[SaintsFAN]

Yes there is a rivalry game at FC this weekend.  Hapless Hanover against FC in a glorified scrimmage.

FC is hoping for a return trip to Trine and the winner goes to Bash.  Who knows??   if that were to happen that would be perfect.  Trine is kidding themselves if they think they are legit. FC played like crap and deserved to lose but they wont repeat that sorry performance.

FC has lost one conference game in three seasons and all four losses in the last three years were to playoff teams. And three of the four losses are to team ranked in the current top 25.  not bad.

Go FC, pound Hanover like the sorry team they are (hope they return but its a long road back as FC and MSJ will lock up many of the top players in the Indy/Cincy areas that used to go Hanover)

Until somebody rises up, FC owns the HCAC and as long as Mike Leonard is there there wont be a major letdown.  just my opinion.

7 Sierra Nevada's contributed to this post/rant  lol

haha.. someone had a good night.  

I just had a conversation with Sayer about the state of the HCAC right now, if you will.  I'll let him share with you guys the opinoins we agreed on.  I believe the Heartland peaked last season with two teams in the Playoffs.  There's been alot of sorry football this year and Franklin has been able to coast --hopefully this fact doesn't hurt them.  RHIT is a clear 2nd place team, but that speaks more to the "decline" rather to what they are doing right.

The one thing that I disagree with here, is about Trine.  I just don't think you can discount a team thats undefeated at this point in the season.  Maybe Franklin will get a shot to show how much they've improved since the first meeting, with a rematch game at Trine.  I'm of the opinoin that I'd like to see Thomas More impress enough that they might get a shot at someone other than Mount Union.  But thats why they play the games --

[fc_alum_84]

Trine deserves the seed they will get due to the record but when I saw them play they certainly are not the third best team in the region. Like FC they would prob be a fourth or fifth place team in the OAC and would not come close in the CCIW. 

The HCAC is down and FC was able to coast somewhat.  Hard to argue that one.  Fortuneately FC played a solid pre-conference schedule against Trine, Butler, and Baldwin Wallace. FC does not load up on patsies to start out.

[Adam Sayer]

Leonard took the approach Hanover used while he was there. The HCAC sucks, so find quality non-conference teams to play. In 2002, Hanover had a solid 7-3 TMC team, fresh off a playoff season, a 7-3 DePauw team, and a 9-3 W & J team on the schedule (all 3 of whom they beat convincingly). In 2003, Hanover had the same nonconference schedule. Playing in our league, you have no choice but to play top notch competition during the nonconference. As we proved in 2004, a 10-0 HCAC team isn't looked at very highly due to the way we represent ourselves in the playoffs.

The HCAC is on the way down and free falling fast. How can you argue teams like Manchester, Defiance, and Bluffton, are on the way up? When Rose-Hulman is your 2nd best team, you know where your conference sits.  All the teams below FC and RHIT are equally worthless this year and beat each other (I'd even throw RHIT in that mix). Keep this in mind. Defiance and Hanover's only wins are against conference teams. Of Anderson's 5 wins, 4 are against HCAC teams. Look up the W-L record of RHIT's opponents this year...it's terrible. I might even argue that the HCAC is the worst conference in D3 football this year. If it's not, it's damn close.

[SaintsFAN]

Sayer and crew,

Wiehe says he's bringin some folks to Crestview Hills tomorrow.  I'm going to stay in contact with you, Adam and Wiehe.  Should be a great, COLD day for Bridge Bowl fun.

[dc_has_been]

Man Sayer, you need a tissue?  The HCAC may not be the best conference, but I still think the conference is headed in the right direction.  Plus who cares if RHIT is the 2nd place team.  Some may have thought the same when MSJ was starting to do well for themselves & was winning the conference. 

[Adam Sayer]

Ask Kevin...I agree with you Has_been. The only team we beat in my 4 years at MSJ who had a winning record was Hanover and they finished the 2004 year with a 6-4 record...not quite dominating. The conference was terrible then as well. At least it looked like we were starting to go in the right place.

Last year's MSJ team was probably the best team they've had at MSJ EVER. They beat a good Illinois Wesleyan team, lost a very close game to FC (I don't care what the FC faithful say, they got robbed of a TD before halftime) and we all know the results of the FC playoff game, and went toe to toe with a very good Wabash team for 3+ quarters in the playoffs. We were 10-0 but we didn't play anyone of significant worth until we got smoked in the playoffs by Wheaton (I will say we deserved more than playing a team who spent 8 weeks ranked in the top 5 of the country for our 1st round game). Last year's team beat and played with good teams. RHIT wasn't dominating, but they finished 7-3.

Last year was probably the best year the HCAC had in terms of competitiveness since it's been called the HCAC. I'm starting to believe that last year was an exception to our traditionally mediocre performances rather than a step in the right direction. It's a shame too because I know this year's MSJ team is a better football team than their terrible record indicates. 

Even FC hasn't put together a good resume this year. They dominated the HCAC, but that doesn't mean much. The only standout spot on their schedule is the win against Butler. The BW win doesn't look as good now as it did back in week 1 (if it ever looked good at all). The loss to Trine really hurts because Trine beat up on it's own conference (which is on par with the HCAC) and the HCAC. They haven't played anyone of any significance. I will give FC this: They made an effort to play good teams outside the HCAC. BW usually isn't this bad and Butler and Trine are decent. I wish MSJ would do the same (I don't know the politics but I would like to see us play a playoff team schedule).

[SaintsFAN]

I can vouch that Sayer said that last night.  Honestly, the PAC is down this year also.. though, I still think Thomas More would've been in the same position had it been more competitive. 

I was talking with Dean Paul this week and he mentioned something about injuries in that conference.  I think it applies here in this argument.  Franklin was able to coast this year in the HCAC as they weren't really challenged... and we haven't heard about any injuries on their team --injuries from impact positions.  I think when you play in a tough conference like the OAC, you are not only tougher as a team because of it... but you have battle-tested players..  and a chance to lose these players.  I don't think the top team in the HCAC has been in this position, with the exception of last year. 

By the way, if you guys are bored and looking for something outside of the Bridge Bowl and HCAC play to keep your eye on --check the "Triple Take-Final Exam Edition" on the frontpage.  Those guys know what they are talking about.. ha

Shameless plug... I know.

USee found an article in a local Ohio paper interviewing Dick Kaiser, Head of the D3 playoff selection committee. Here is the link:

http://www.crescent-news.com/news/article/4466158

On the top 4 seeds:

"I think we're going to try again to seed the top four teams," said Kaiser, who served as the defensive coordinator at Idaho State in 1981 when it won the Division I-AA national championship and before that coached outside linebackers at BYU. "Then take the teams and fill up the brackets so it won't be like North, East, South and West. It'll be like Team A's bracket, Team B's bracket and so on and so forth. That's how last year, everybody was all upset that all of sudden Mount Union was playing all of these East teams. Alliance is close (to the East coast) and can play all those East teams."

This could potentially be a good thing for Thomas More... avoiding a trip to Mount Union.  We'll see on Sunday at 3pm. 

By the way... ESPN will not have Pat Coleman in studio this year.  Bad move.. he will be calling in to "weigh in" but for those of you not familiar with how much Pat did to make the selection show better in recent years... he won't be there to help explain pronunciations and etc before they go on the air.  Hopefully his absence is only one year.

[dc_has_been]

I like the idea of seeding the top four teams in seperate brackets.  I know some issues towards traveling distances can mess w/ it a bit, but I'm still a fan of doing the four best teams get the #1 seeds.  Anyway it works out I'm still pulling for a Franklin/Trine rematch. 
I can't believe they wouldn't have Pat in studio for the selection show, that's a real bummer. 

[cave2bens]

BTW, nice job SaintsFan on the triple take.  Any insights on odds, given pick'em performance, on MUC headed east, vs NCC west, vs Muhlenberg east? Or is everything contingent on the Ithaca-SUNY Cortland game?

D - PU - it says it all.   

Regardless of any/all HCAC outcomes, here's to a safe and injury-free conclusion to the season!  Slainte.

[nittanybacker]

Just in case anyone has Directv the Depauw vs Wabash is going to be on HDNET at 1 PM.

[SaintsFAN]

cave2bens,

I don't think that makes me an expert but I do have an opinoin on the #1 seeds.  I think Dick Kaiser has already foreshadowed this.... I think Mount Union is moving East... they make the most sense out of all the North teams, logistically.  And this would allow the committee to continue the practice started last year of building a region around the #1 team.

My guess (in this order):

#1 Mount Union Region (East)
#2 North Central Region (North)
#3 Millsaps Region (South)
#4 Williamette Region (West)

[SaintsFAN]

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081115/SPT01/811150401/1062/SPT

[SaintsFAN]

Mount St. Joe 0
Thomas More 19  F

It wasn't even this close.  MSJ's offense was bad, bad, bad.  Collier again saved the day for the Saints on a terrible weather day.  MSJ had one run that got them to TMC's 35 on their first drive, after that...nothing to speak of. 

My prevailing thought is that football is a rough game... perhaps, Kendall Owens can play next week after being knocked out of the game on a cheap shot.  I know Rod Huber doesn't condone this kind of dirty play, so it will be interesting to see what happens as a result.  Just remember, unless MSJ drops TMC again from the schedule, we'll deal with the Lions on the field.  Just like today.  I'm not calling out any names on the MSJ defense but a couple guys were talking alot...despite being down so many points.  They let emotion get the best of them....did Thomas More talk?  Yes... but they played legally and between the whistles.  Coach Hilvert's team is to be commended for taking care of business and not letting an emotional team with nothing to play for ... get to them.  Maybe next year if Pat asks me to talk about games in week 11, I'm going to mention the new lows the rivalry got to today.  In fact, you can bet on it.

I told Adam on the way out of the game... and he agreed.. Mount is mediocre again.  I think not having a handle on some of the defensive players with ego is a major symptom of this. 

there's going to be a major shakeup among playoff teams... early game scores show Wabash losing the Monon Bell game, and Moravian has defeated Muhlenburg.  The Mules still get in, but probably as a #6-8 seed.  Before there was talk of them being moved east (mostly by their own fans) to be a #1 seed.  St John Fisher is also out after losing at Alfred today.. they were Pool A if they won.. lost too many games to get in as a "C"

Sayer, your buddy was drunk... btw.  I'm going to assume that most of the MSJ fans in the stands were also drunk... yelling at Hilvert might be accepted on the Westside at some festival, but you may have noticed how even our fans didn't act out of line AFTER the chippiness started.  Then again, we don't have a "Napoleon Complex" about our program. 

[Adam Sayer]

Which friend??? Hoss? Mediocre or not, we're still proud of where we came. Just a little dissapointed after today. Not going to lie, it hurts. Though I like TMC and wish the program and Jim the best of luck, it really bothers me that these kids performed the way they did this year. I left a team who were d!cks and a$$holes. Guys who wouldn't back down from people and do whatever it took to get the job done. Watching from the sideline, it appears MSJ has lost that mentality. The article did say MSJ has lost a lot of players due to injury. Maybe we're seeing the 2001-2004 building process all over again with a plethora of Fr. starters. Whatever it is, when I left, I thought we brought MSJ from a doormat, laughing stock program to a legit, respectable team. And they managed that for a while. I'm hoping the injuries are a reason for the lackluster performances and not something else. Mediocre they are, but hopefully not for long. We'll have to wait and see.

Congrats to Anderson on another great season. The last 2 years have been great for those guys. (I wonder why they have been so good the last 2 years and not as good in years past?) I worked with 1 coach of theirs from Bethel and I know another very well (was the HC at Lockland for a few years). Hopefully either them or the winner of the Colerain-Elder game  can get Cincinnati another state championship(s).

TMC had their personal fouls as well. I remember back in 2003 when I threw a fist into a guys face on the sideline cause he was running his mouth after an INT. That's the way it goes. It will always be a tough, physical game and personal fouls will be called. Diving at a players knees is a little iffy on the option, but it's not illegal. Tackle the pitch man and there is no option.

Say what you will, but since we started the rivalry over again, it's 3-3. I told the cop in the parking lot to get a real job cause he told me we had to win 3 games before it could be considered a rivalry. My response: How long have you been here? We won in 2004, 2005 and 2007. Get a real job fat a$$...as I was pulling out.

[SaintsFAN]

TMC had their personal fouls as well. I remember back in 2003 when I threw a fist into a guys face on the sideline cause he was running his mouth after an INT. That's the way it goes. It will always be a tough, physical game and personal fouls will be called. Diving at a players knees is a little iffy on the option, but it's not illegal. Tackle the pitch man and there is no option.

come on, man.  unless you didn't see it... you know it was cheap.  if you're going to hit someone on the option like that (even if the pitchman doesn't have the ball)... hit them high.  Don't be a COWARD.  It was a chicken$hit play.  The film won't lie... and that kid will have a target on him next year... guaranteed.  But we'll do it between the whistles and not in a chicken$hit way.

Didn't something like this happen against Defiance also ??  Not this year but two years ago..

by the way, call me back... I'm trying to reach you about something with tonight...