FB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

[70_dc_alum]

I am going to put this down as Saintsfan wanting to get under my skin to get a post out of me but then he Suckered D3DB into this!!  In the last 10yrs  Defiance has had 2 that would classify as Saintsfans "Terrible team of  the Decade" only thing is that was 02 and 04 where they were 1-5 in HCAC with a 3-3 in-between.  More like a bad class or 2 than anything else.  You take out that one stretch (which is not as bad as some others) Defiance has not dominated teams like the first 2 years but has been one of the more consistent in the HCAC since 2000.  Of course always being in 3rd is like being a good wingman with the "big girls" while your buddy is picking up the hot trim!!

So for D3DB who wants to lump DC in the basement  - Here is DC's record since we joined the HCAC

2000 (4-2 HCAC) 2nd place
2001 (5-1 HCAC) 1st Place
2002 (1-5 HCAC) Tied Last
2003 (3-3 HCAC) 4th Place
2004 (1-5 HCAC) 6th Place 2nd to last
2005 (4-2 HCAC) 2nd Place
2006 (5-2 HCAC) 3rd Place
2007 (4-3 HCAC) 3rd Place
2008 (4-3 HCAC) 3rd Place


And just to make SaintsFan happy.  I have always been 100% behind TMC in the HCAC.  I have not found one legit excuse to why they should not be...don't give me academics, are they that different than DC, Bluffton, or Manchester??

[SaintsFAN]

exactly, 70... twice in 10 years was about what I was thinking...

are they that different than DC, Bluffton, or Manchester??

or MSJ???  MSJ is no better than Thomas More, no matter how much that old hag president in Delhi wants to think they are.  Fact of the matter is Thomas More didn't use bonds to fund their stadium, so I know Thomas More is in better shape financially.

and yes I wanted you to come back and post.  

Bengals have reported already... and Hard Knocks starts next week.  Its football season!

[BUBeaverFan]

I think Earlham would be a great fit for the HCAC.  I also thought it was stupid to let Thomas More go to the PAC instead of the HCAC back in the day.  My guess is that if Earlham leaves the NCAC to join the HCAC that Depauw would be the logical choice to replace them in the NCAC.  I also ponder the whole future of the NAIA and schools like Taylor (IN).  I would think Taylor would be a good fit for NCAA DIII while St. Francis (IN) might consider a jump to NCAA DII.  Taylor (IN) would be a great choice for the HCAC and have obvious history with most if not all of the schools in the HCAC.  Of course the Indiana schools could reform the ICAC and leave the Ohio schools to fend for themselves if Taylor, St. Francis and Earlham would all like to be in a conference together with the existing Indiana schools.  If Depauw goes to the NCAC to replace Earlham it could start a domino effect and maybe there could be a Ohio-Kentucky Conference with Defiance, Bluffton, Mt. St. Joseph, Thomas More, Transylvania and Centre as the core.

[formerd3db]

Okay, 70_dc_alum - you caught onto SaintsFan and my "conspiracy" to get you to return to posting with us and your other friends here after your temporary hiatus!   Good to hear from you.  Now before you go chastizing me friend, let me explain (and reiterate ) that I meant no disrespect to your Defiance.  My point was just trying to suggest that Earlham might have a chance at doing a little better in the HCAC with some of the schools that have had a "down year" or two of recent.  I was not trying to lump DC in the bottom half; okay, you are indeed correct that 3rd place in the league is no slouch accomplishment.  And while Defiance will probably almost always (never say "never" and never say "always" and sometimes you might be right" pummel Earlham, I was just trying to say again that in those down years or so with some teams, Earlham might have a better chance at beginning to improve their program a bit.  Week in and week out, they would most likely struggle for the first few years even in the HCAC.  Anyway, perhaps my scenario is flawed, but I think that both you and I have to admit that both the HCAC and MIAA have not been good fb conferences as compared to others and including the NCAC in recent years.  My apologies if I offended you, but that was not my intention at all.  Just trying to discuss the overall situation.  Then again, as I get older, perhaps I'm becoming blind(er) and dumb(er)  

All that being said, thanks for doing the research on the stats you presented.  Very interesting.  I think also that Defiance will do better this year - what's your early prediction?

[formerd3db]

I think Earlham would be a great fit for the HCAC.  I also thought it was stupid to let Thomas More go to the PAC instead of the HCAC back in the day.  My guess is that if Earlham leaves the NCAC to join the HCAC that Depauw would be the logical choice to replace them in the NCAC.  I also ponder the whole future of the NAIA and schools like Taylor (IN).  I would think Taylor would be a good fit for NCAA DIII while St. Francis (IN) might consider a jump to NCAA DII.  Taylor (IN) would be a great choice for the HCAC and have obvious history with most if not all of the schools in the HCAC.  Of course the Indiana schools could reform the ICAC and leave the Ohio schools to fend for themselves if Taylor, St. Francis and Earlham would all like to be in a conference together with the existing Indiana schools.  If Depauw goes to the NCAC to replace Earlham it could start a domino effect and maybe there could be a Ohio-Kentucky Conference with Defiance, Bluffton, Mt. St. Joseph, Thomas More, Transylvania and Centre as the core.

Some good thoughts and comments there WashU33Fan.  I've always thought the same about Taylor as well.  The only aspect I might disagree with you on is that I think St. Francis would not be so inclined to go DIII.  From what I know about them and hearing some general comments over the years about their program (which is admittedly little), I tend to think they want to continue being in their present type of situation.  I could be way off base, however.  Anyway, as I've mentioned in other posts, it will be very interesting to see how all these conference changes eventually play out in the near future according to what has been "reported" in the general media, "rumor mill" and other sources.

[SaintsFAN]

HCAC related questions (Pre-Season version):

1.  Will DC find a qb who doesn't throw underhanded??  They have good years when they have a decent QB

2.  Who replaces Rupp at Franklin?  post-Rupp Grizzlies will be tested early.

3.  QB situation at MSJ is also unsettled.  Who's the man in Delhi? 

4.  Is this the year Hanover gets back to mediocrity??

5. who from the bottom of the pack will surprise this season??


Thats about it. 

I really believe the HCAC is a one-bid conference in 2009... despite the OAC having no clear 2nd place team to follow MUC (which means a pool C spot COULD be open again, like two years ago)

[Adam Sayer]

Remember, joining a conference isn't just limited to the football program (i.e. Transylvania joining the HCAC) but football is the most popular and biggest money making sport...even in D3. I don't know how good the other Earlham's sports programs are, but from a football standpoint, if Wabash is an option as D3DB had stated, I'd fight like hell for them. Before the HCAC was called the HCAC it was a different league and Wabash, Hanover, MSJ, and some other HCAC teams (and Wilmington I think) were together before that league split. Wabash joined the NCAC and Wilmington went to the OAC. Bring back Wabash and the HCAC would instantly be a top tier conference with Wabash as the headliner and Franklin (who did win a playoff game) as a back up. If Hanover can become the Hanover of the late 90's and early 00's again...the HCAC would be one of the better conferences in the country (I'm mentioning it because I think its very possible). MSJ has shown they are no slouch either and can win. Prior to last year they had a regular season record of 37-3 from 2004-2007....and competed with Wabash for 3.5 quarters in the 2007 playoffs.

[Pat Coleman]

Wabash doesn't make the NCAC a top-tier conference with Wittenberg. It would make the HCAC a mid-level conference, more likely, in football.

[70_dc_alum]

agree with Pat  would make us a lot better but not top tier.  look at the preseason top 25.  we got some representation i was saying to myself wow Franklin was listed and at 19...i was expecting to see them in the others receiving votes category.

D3DB no worries i knew i could mess with you   DC is known for beatinig the top teams and loosing to Bluffton to keep bluffton from going 0-10

SaintsFan you nailed it.  if the DC QB play matures they will be much improved as a team.  Franklin is the team to watch with a good nucleus of players but how do they recover the production that graduated, it is not just rupp.  a lot of the skill guys around him are gone too.

[dc_has_been]

Ah, I smell football coming back!  Let's hope DC's squad worked hard in the off season & their QB situation is settled by week 1! 
In regards to Earlam or TMC, let them both be a great addition to the HCAC.  Both would bring great things to the conference.  Then they could split the conference into two leagues & have an overall championship game like the SEC, MAC, & others. 

[Adam Sayer]

Maybe not immediately, but if Franklin keeps up their success, MSJ rebounds, Hanover starts to become the Hanover of the late 90's/early 00's (which according to Kevin, the entrance standards are a lot more reasonable), and another team steps up...the addition of Wabash would make the HCAC a helluva conference. I understand this scenario is based on team's prior successes and a lot of what ifs. Will MSJ be like they were from 2004-2007...who knows. Will Hanover ever be like they were in the late 90's...who knows (considering Hanover's history, I'd almost guarentee that they will bounce back and soon). BUT, if it were to happen, that 4-some of Franklin, Wabash, MSJ, and Hanover would make the HCAC the 8th or 9th best conference in D3. Compared with 20th or so now.

ASC, OAC, CCIW, SCAC, WIAC, NJAC, and possibly the PAC would be better in my opinion.

[SaintsFAN]

Maybe not immediately, but if Franklin keeps up their success, MSJ rebounds, Hanover starts to become the Hanover of the late 90's/early 00's (which according to Kevin, the entrance standards are a lot more reasonable), and another team steps up...the addition of Wabash would make the HCAC a helluva conference. I understand this scenario is based on team's prior successes and a lot of what ifs. Will MSJ be like they were from 2004-2007...who knows. Will Hanover ever be like they were in the late 90's...who knows (considering Hanover's history, I'd almost guarentee that they will bounce back and soon). BUT, if it were to happen, that 4-some of Franklin, Wabash, MSJ, and Hanover would make the HCAC the 8th or 9th best conference in D3. Compared with 20th or so now.

ASC, OAC, CCIW, SCAC, WIAC, NJAC, and possibly the PAC would be better in my opinion.

the PAC, with W&J in it, will always be better than the HCAC, IMO.  I've seen both league's teams play

[70_dc_alum]

the PAC, with W&J in it, will always be better than the HCAC, IMO.  I've seen both league's teams play

Dont you mean TMC? 

[SaintsFAN]

the PAC, with W&J in it, will always be better than the HCAC, IMO.  I've seen both league's teams play

Dont you mean TMC? 

no sir.  W&J.  One day TMC will be mentioned with that... but W&J is about 25 years in on their run.

[dc_has_been]

I became curious about the what teams records have been since 2000 when DC entered the conference.  Then I added 2009's preseason poll & what each teams non conference games combined record from last year. 
Since 2000 Records
Overall           Conference                     Preseason Poll 2009 (1st place votes)  Nonconf teams 08 records
MSJ 55-39     HC 37-20                         FC 61.5 (5.5)                                      FC 21-9
FC   50-44     MSJ 35-22 (5-4 vs FC)      MSJ 50 (1)                                          MSJ 24-17 (4 non conf games)
HC  49-44      FC 35-22 (4-5 vs MSJ)     RH  47.5 (1.5)                                     RH 11-19
AC  47-43      DC 31-26 (6-3 vs AC)       AC  39                                                AC 14-16
DC  45-46      AC 31-26 (3-6 vs DC)      MC  30                                                MC 16-15
BC  30-60      BC 18-39                         DC  28                                                DC 21-10
MC  20-70      MC 10-47                        HC  19                                                HC 18-13
RH* 20-10     RH* 12-9                         BC  13                                                BC 15-15
*RH obviously entered in 2006
Other than Hanover & Manchester the preseason poll almost seems consistent with the past 9 seasons.