FB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

dc_has_been · November 24, 2009, 01:00:23 PM

Oh yeah! My dad can beat up your dad, so there!

maripp2002 · November 24, 2009, 01:10:28 PM

Notre Dame's team speed is much greater than Navy's.

I agree play, decide it on the field. PAC and NCAC really ought to hook something up.

Essentially, comparing TMC to Witt is at best pretty even up. Even when you factor in "common opponents" and "opponents opponents". Witt had a weaker SOS but scored 430 points and gave up 67, TMC had a stronger SOS but scored 346 and gave up 168 (through 11 games). Because Geneva didn't get an 8th win until the 11th game, both teams had 2 regular season teams on their schedule with 8 wins or more. Team speed is incredibly subjective, because it isn't a track meet its a football game (Darrius Heyward-Bey). I just think it's not ridiculous to say TMC could finish 3rd in the NCAC, just like I wouldn't say it was ridiculous to say Witt finishes 3rd in the PAC.

SaintsFAN · November 24, 2009, 01:24:34 PM

Quote from: maripp2002 on November 24, 2009, 01:10:28 PM
Notre Dame's team speed is much greater than Navy's.

I agree play, decide it on the field. PAC and NCAC really ought to hook something up.

Essentially, comparing TMC to Witt is at best pretty even up. Even when you factor in "common opponents" and "opponents opponents". Witt had a weaker SOS but scored 430 points and gave up 67, TMC had a stronger SOS but scored 346 and gave up 168 (through 11 games). Because Geneva didn't get an 8th win until the 11th game, both teams had 2 regular season teams on their schedule with 8 wins or more. Team speed is incredibly subjective, because it isn't a track meet its a football game (Darrius Heyward-Bey). I just think it's not ridiculous to say TMC could finish 3rd in the NCAC, just like I wouldn't say it was ridiculous to say Witt finishes 3rd in the PAC.

At a glance it looks even, sir. But as maddening as it was during the season for some of us fans... everytime TMC had a lead in the 4th, with the exception of Grove City (QB was hurt) and W&J (closing out a close win) the TMC team substituted liberally, getting guys PT. The varsity defense, had great numbers that were skewed quite a bit by the JV guys.

and trust me, we were all worried about how it would look on the scoreboard on Sunday, but what Hilvert did was brilliant. They were THAT MUCH better than everyone else in the PAC, so he got some valuable experience and tape on the kids who are coming back next year.

Agree to disagree though, I see your logic. I just don't think you (as most of the country doesn't -- I've been in Pat's ear all year with text messages and whatnot) have seen what is behind the scores. Thats why I say you can't look at the scores. For instance, Waynesburg scored 15 points (they went for 2 after one of them) in the 4th on our scrubs.

re: team speed

everyone who has played TMC has agreed, even DePauw.... it takes some getting used to. Kendall Owens broke a tackle on a 5 yard out on the 1st series last week and wasn't touched again until he was slapping hands with his WR's in the endzone 70 yards later. DePauw had pursuit angles on him, so they thought... he outran them. The defense, like MUC (thats the only way I will compare them to Mount Union because hscoach and I were just talking about how alike they were size/speed at each position) is small but very fast.

What does this mean? Probably a loss this week since I'm jinxing the team by talking about finally... but I'm sick of people just assuming based on scores ---- TMC has a damn fine team. Very fast, very aggressive, athletically gifted and very spirited. Its the best team they've had in 20 years at the school and for those who are older and can remember the teams we had before (lots d1 transfers early), will know thats a huge statement.

If they win this week, they have to play perfect next week... but win or not... the road ends in Alliance. I've been around enough to know that even if TMC plays perfectly and doesn't turn the ball over, MUC could still put up 8 TD's on them... just like they could do to everyone else (with the exception of Whitewater).

Adam Sayer · November 24, 2009, 01:27:38 PM

Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 24, 2009, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: maripp2002 on November 24, 2009, 01:10:28 PM
Notre Dame's team speed is much greater than Navy's.

I agree play, decide it on the field. PAC and NCAC really ought to hook something up.

Essentially, comparing TMC to Witt is at best pretty even up. Even when you factor in "common opponents" and "opponents opponents". Witt had a weaker SOS but scored 430 points and gave up 67, TMC had a stronger SOS but scored 346 and gave up 168 (through 11 games). Because Geneva didn't get an 8th win until the 11th game, both teams had 2 regular season teams on their schedule with 8 wins or more. Team speed is incredibly subjective, because it isn't a track meet its a football game (Darrius Heyward-Bey). I just think it's not ridiculous to say TMC could finish 3rd in the NCAC, just like I wouldn't say it was ridiculous to say Witt finishes 3rd in the PAC.

If they win this week, they have to play perfect next week... but win or not... the road ends in Alliance. I've been around enough to know that even if TMC plays perfectly and doesn't turn the ball over, MUC could still put up 8 TD's on them... just like they could do to everyone else (with the exception of Whitewater).

That's the smartest thing you've said all day

BlueRebel94 · November 24, 2009, 01:28:26 PM

Somebody get SaintsFAN a water bottle and towel, stat!!

SaintsFAN · November 24, 2009, 01:30:29 PM

Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 24, 2009, 01:28:26 PM
Somebody get SaintsFAN a water bottle and towel, stat!!

ha... Shriver you know me too well.... this was bound to happen. They've been disrespected all year. I know quite a few teams are looking at their scores and saying "we could win the PAC and be where they are today" .... no true. I've seen one team with same speed as TMC, and I think thats why they walked through the PAC and made it look easy.

Mount St. Joe thought they had a chance this year too... same reason. Its bunk and they've proven it through 11 games.

Adam,

They could also play well and keep it close... ala St John Fisher (playoff version). BUT they have two hard games to win first.

SaintsFAN · November 24, 2009, 01:33:30 PM

Quote from: maripp2002 on November 24, 2009, 01:10:28 PM
Notre Dame's team speed is much greater than Navy's.

As an Irish fan, this hurts to say... but I think ND is equal to Navy in speed ... at least defensively vs. the Midshipmen offense.

maripp2002 · November 24, 2009, 01:33:41 PM

Allow me to say, you make a valid point. I am BY NO MEANS bashing TMC. I have great respect for what they have done this year. Accomplishing an undefeated REGULAR SEASON is always an admirable feat(winning them ALL is something a lot harder than it sounds). I would just like you to admit that the PAC and the NCAC, this year, are really not as far apart as you would have us believe. I can hardly imagine Witt v. TMC would turn into anything other than a great game and a exciting time for all spectators. Just like I would like to believe the same about WAB v. W&J, All v. Grove City, etc. TMC very well might beat Witt and vice versa, and only one number could really tell us that. In the meantime, however, it sure is fun, and great exercise for our liberal arts educations, to try and come up with backing for our opinions.

BlueRebel94 · November 24, 2009, 01:38:04 PM

Actually, truth be told, given TMC's locale (could have been in either North or South region) the selection committee obviously felt that TMC was better than Witt by putting them the #2 in the Wesley bracket (#3 team)as opposed to Witt's #2 in the Whitewater bracket (#2 team). Simple rules of seeding.

I can't wait until 2010, both teams need to win out and decide this in the Title game this year.

Adam Sayer · November 24, 2009, 01:39:05 PM

This MSJ poster thought they could win, but ultimately gave TMC the recognition as being the better team. Actually, I don't ever think I said MSJ would win?

maripp2002 · November 24, 2009, 01:43:04 PM

Obviously you missed the message on seeds from the selection committee this year (they're aren't any), so how can that possibly be true?

BlueRebel94 · November 24, 2009, 01:47:32 PM

If you close one eye and squint really hard for 10 minutes, you can see them (seeds). Aside of course from just looking at the bracket and figuring it out.

Really I was just trying to get my post numbers up, so you're right Witt is better.

maripp2002 · November 24, 2009, 01:51:24 PM

And, as I think about it, who from the South could you bump to make room there? The North bracket had a Pool-C team in it, Wabash. All of the south bracket teams were Pool-A or B. There is no way you could geographically move out any team from the North Bracket(with the exception of UWW but not even the committee was going to put them in the West this year), but you could have moved TMC from the South to East and stuck UMHB into the South for a Pool-C team, and then moved MUC North. But the committee didn't see the PAC champion as a #1 seed so it didn't work out.

maripp2002 · November 24, 2009, 01:53:37 PM

No need to get snippy, did I not, just a few posts ago admit that I thought TMC and Witt are even? As for "figuring them out" if any bracket deserves to be the number 1 bracket how about the West? 4 undefeated teams and three pool-c"s, that is pretty loaded.

BlueRebel94 · November 24, 2009, 01:59:46 PM

No snippyness intended, more of a smart alec with jokes that sometimes fall flat. Point is, neither team has anything to complain about. Both are hosting a 2nd round game that they should (knock on wood) win and then its off to the #1 seed team in their respective brackets which poses more than enough for either to chew on.