FB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

[SaintsFAN]

GRIZ roll over Rose 64-14.  Let the record show that Rose was down 64-0 with approx 5 min to go.  FC called off the dogs after 3. Rose left starters in until they scored with 5 left.  Chippy game today.  Rose exposed.

You're allowed to do that, btw. If I were coaching, I would do the same. Those kids worked their asses off all week. Good for them for seeing it through all 60 minutes. That's a life lesson right there.

[SaintsFAN]

http://vimeo.com/75727059

Check out the video above related the to FC Touchdown Club.  Very well done.

Very cool video, btw. That's an awesome thing going on at Franklin.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

http://vimeo.com/75727059

Check out the video above related the to FC Touchdown Club.  Very well done.

Very cool video, btw. That's an awesome thing going on at Franklin.

Thanks.  Thomas More stll have a shot at playoffs?

[SaintsFAN]

http://vimeo.com/75727059

Check out the video above related the to FC Touchdown Club.  Very well done.

Very cool video, btw. That's an awesome thing going on at Franklin.

Thanks.  Thomas More stll have a shot at playoffs?

They have to win out. If W&J loses then they are in as auto qualifier.  If W&J wins out and they win out, they should be the 1st Pool C team to go out of the South a Region.

They need to make a statement in The Bridge Bowl, IMO to remove doubt. It would be a shame if they missed. This team is good but a very young one. They just broke the record of shutouts in a season with 4 (my freshman year 95 team had the record with three). Anytime you are mentioned with that team, you're doing something right. Plus they have probably a first team AA at RB in Hayden. We'll see, I guess.

[dc_has_been]

To the Franklin posters out there, how did DC look against you guys?

Compared to the other HCAC teams FC has faced (I have been to every game except Anderson), DC has some talent (decent speed) particularly in the secondary as well as some decent receivers.  While the score was close, DC appears to be on the upswing at the skill positions. I thought DC's defense was much improved and certainly in the top tier compared to the rest of the conference.

Thanks for the info!

[Thunder44]

http://vimeo.com/75727059

Check out the video above related the to FC Touchdown Club.  Very well done.

Very cool video, btw. That's an awesome thing going on at Franklin.

Thanks.  Thomas More stll have a shot at playoffs?

They have to win out. If W&J loses then they are in as auto qualifier.  If W&J wins out and they win out, they should be the 1st Pool C team to go out of the South a Region.

They need to make a statement in The Bridge Bowl, IMO to remove doubt. It would be a shame if they missed. This team is good but a very young one. They just broke the record of shutouts in a season with 4 (my freshman year 95 team had the record with three). Anytime you are mentioned with that team, you're doing something right. Plus they have probably a first team AA at RB in Hayden. We'll see, I guess.

I was beginning to think that this year's edition of the Bridge Bowl would be an interesting matchup, with MSJ being closer than the 71-3 fiasco of last year (or the year previous, I can't remember).  Then they got shut out by Rose Hulman 34 - 0, and I really don't know what to expect.  Would not be surprised to see them make a game of it, or for the Saints to completely roll over them, knowing the implications for the post season ride on the effort.

This week's game against Earlham won't be too much of a gauge, so I guess we will know in about a week and a half.

[formerd3db]

Friends:
I have a question for you die-hards here.  I know many of us have discussed some of this in general in the past here and on the other boards, however, just wanted to know about any of your updated opinions.  What do you think about DIII schools playing an occasional FCS school, regardless of scholarship or the non-scholarship Pioneer League schools, such as Franklin has (and others such as some of our MIAA schools, Albion, Hope in the past have periodically) for one of their non-conference games?  I realize that some people do not favor or like that, in part, because those do not really count as towards SOS for the DIII playoffs.  Others have objected to the potential injury factor, such as when some of those FCS (formerly D-IAA) schools have players that are much larger, faster, etc.  Franklin held their own against Butler this year and in recent years so did Albion on some occasions.

Personally, I don't have any problem with it because I believe it is a great experience and opportunity for our DIII players to play an upper division team like that i.e. the semi-big-time if you will, but also because I've always believed it made you better over time if you played them on a consistent basis- back in my day (and, well, even today) some schools play an occasional DII school as well.  Anyway, since the Pioneer League champion, which certainly could still be Butler (they have an outside chance still), gets an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs, I think in a small sense, that is kind of neat that a team such as Franklin could say we played them and..just what if they had beaten them?   Just curious as to your further thoughts.  Thanks.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

Friends:
I have a question for you die-hards here.  I know many of us have discussed some of this in general in the past here and on the other boards, however, just wanted to know about any of your updated opinions.  What do you think about DIII schools playing an occasional FCS school, regardless of scholarship or the non-scholarship Pioneer League schools, such as Franklin has (and others such as some of our MIAA schools, Albion, Hope in the past have periodically) for one of their non-conference games?  I realize that some people do not favor or like that, in part, because those do not really count as towards SOS for the DIII playoffs.  Others have objected to the potential injury factor, such as when some of those FCS (formerly D-IAA) schools have players that are much larger, faster, etc.  Franklin held their own against Butler this year and in recent years so did Albion on some occasions.

Personally, I don't have any problem with it because I believe it is a great experience and opportunity for our DIII players to play an upper division team like that i.e. the semi-big-time if you will, but also because I've always believed it made you better over time if you played them on a consistent basis- back in my day (and, well, even today) some schools play an occasional DII school as well.  Anyway, since the Pioneer League champion, which certainly could still be Butler (they have an outside chance still), gets an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs, I think in a small sense, that is kind of neat that a team such as Franklin could say we played them and..just what if they had beaten them?   Just curious as to your further thoughts.  Thanks.

I think it depends on the school, strength of conference, and if the team is a perenial playoff caliber team.  For example: Wabash probably would shy away due to the fact that they have a near equal team in Wittenberg in their conference.  If they were to lose to a team as strong as Butler is today (likely) then a loss to Witt would put them in danger of not making the playoff.  While the non D3 technically doesnt count, the loss could be used to help differentiate between a 9-1 and an 8-2 (even if quality loss).  Wabash and Witt have to be careful to schedule themselves to a likely 1 loss or better season.  Franklin on the other hand has no peer in conference thus will make the playoffs on a normal year.  Thus a Butler while still not an official game can be a barometer for comparison to other teams, plus Franklin strives to play better competiition to guage themselves for the playoffs.  CCIW/OAC schools are in the same boat as NCAC IMO.  That said, I would like to see the top 1-2 schools try to schedule Franklin early.  Good comparison come seeding.  I can see why some school would shy away.  Franklin has nothing to lose except seeding, others may be left out if they lose to Franklin and a game in conference.  UMU, Whitewater have no issue with scheduling Franklin as it helps their case by playing better competition early.  My two cents.  I hear the noise about only 1 game OOC etc but my gut tells me the Witts/Bash/Wheaton/IWU etc probably dont want to risk their playoff chances by playing Franklin. When Franklin wasnt as good, it didnt seem to be a problem finding early season games.

[dc_has_been]

Friends:
I have a question for you die-hards here.  I know many of us have discussed some of this in general in the past here and on the other boards, however, just wanted to know about any of your updated opinions.  What do you think about DIII schools playing an occasional FCS school, regardless of scholarship or the non-scholarship Pioneer League schools, such as Franklin has (and others such as some of our MIAA schools, Albion, Hope in the past have periodically) for one of their non-conference games?  I realize that some people do not favor or like that, in part, because those do not really count as towards SOS for the DIII playoffs.  Others have objected to the potential injury factor, such as when some of those FCS (formerly D-IAA) schools have players that are much larger, faster, etc.  Franklin held their own against Butler this year and in recent years so did Albion on some occasions.

Personally, I don't have any problem with it because I believe it is a great experience and opportunity for our DIII players to play an upper division team like that i.e. the semi-big-time if you will, but also because I've always believed it made you better over time if you played them on a consistent basis- back in my day (and, well, even today) some schools play an occasional DII school as well.  Anyway, since the Pioneer League champion, which certainly could still be Butler (they have an outside chance still), gets an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs, I think in a small sense, that is kind of neat that a team such as Franklin could say we played them and..just what if they had beaten them?   Just curious as to your further thoughts.  Thanks.

I am not a fan, as I am not a fan of the BCS schools scheduling FCS games.  I would like to see better scheduling opportunities for DIII schools inside DIII by schools willing to travel further to play better DIII competition (i.e. Linfield).  DIII schools are gaining a lot of money by having a football program.  Each student/athlete is paying a hefty tuition and with schools having anywhere from 50-200 guys on a roster that is a lot of money for the college, which in return should allow them to shell out some more money for travel expenses.  This in return would allow teams to play different types of competition inside the dIII spectrum.
Also, I would like to see even a dIV for schools that seem to having losing records for 10+years.  They are failing to make the grade with dIII schools, so if you round them up and put them in with teams in equal standing, this would improve their quality of football.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

Well said DC

[formerd3db]

Legitimate points and interesting thoughts, all.  I guess it basically comes down to what each school's coaching staff and athletic administrators wants to do as Griz_Backer mentioned.  I see the pros/cons either way as you all have well pointed out.  But in the end, I really don't have a problem with the FBS's scheduling FCS's as it simply is a very exciting happening when one of those schools knocks off one of the super-powers, like when Appalachian State beat Michigan and/or when Central Michigan beat Michigan State twice in recent years.

It just reminds me of when Purdue's then Head Coach Joe T. complained after Toledo upset them about 10 years ago (or so, I can't quite recall the exact # of years but it was around then) and said they shouldn't be playing those type of teams (MAC's or mid-majors) because they (Purdue) were so much better.  I had to laugh because that simply was ludicrous in the sense that if they were so much better, then they should absolutely beat a Toledo every time.  I believe he was actually referring to the premise that it hurts a school like Purdue in the ratings for bowls in losing such type of games, but, my point is, again, if they think they are so good, then beat them anyway (of course, in recent years, that doesn't apply to Purdue, unfortunately, for them).  Yet, I still think it is a great experience when the small guys get the opportunity to play against the big guys and sometimes, just sometimes knock the latter off, regardless of what level (FCS, DII or DIII).  Just my own personal take, although again, many of you have the opposite opinion from me.  Anyway, thanks for your replies - excellent and, again, interesting and valid.

[sigma one]

dc--and others: I've written this on other Boards, so I'll way a version of it here.  Your comment about the tuition football players pay and what you would like to see reflects pretty common thinking from fans.  You say that "in return" the football team should be given the extra money to travel farther away to meet better, often better,  competition.  This all sounds good.  I can tell you from my experience on DIII campuses that this is not the way it works.  The football team is given a budget by the institution.  That budget generally does not include the monies you refer to no matter how much tuition money the student-athletes pay.  Tuition does not even cover the full coast of education at most places, and football players, like many other students, are often heavily discounted in merit-aid (sometimes academic aid as well).  It's not like there's this extra money to be spent on football travel all the time.
     Yes, we see teams crossing regions to play, usually because that is where they can find games.  On the whole, they would rather be playing closer to home in almost all cases.  Of course, there are no universals, but that travel is usually "forced" upon them--see the teams in the west regions who have to go from Texas, etc. to the Northwest and from the Northwest to various places.  Even some north teams go west occasionally. 
     College just don't think the way you are suggesting, and probably will not, particularly in a time when campus budgets are tight on both the academic and athletics side of the house.
     On DIV, I've given this a great deal of thought and was involved in campus conversations when the DIV idea tried to be seriously floated in the last decade.   Taking the almost-always-big-losing schools and "rounding them up," in effect forcing them to a different, lower division is untenable.  You would destroy some traditional rivalries, try to create mega-conferences consisting of the "cream of the crop," and in the process doom some of the better, but not great, teams to almost certain mediocracy.   All the thinking that has gone in to creating MOST of the conferences would be tossed away.  Conferences are usually made up of like-minded schools (within a not too huge geographical area, most of the time) that agree to compete v. one another.  Not to go on too long, football is only one among many reasons why conferences exist.  I suppose you could try to say that football would be differently affiliated.  I can guarantee you that outside a very limited number of schools, the administrations at DIII schools are just as interested in what is happening in men's and women's basketball,  etc. etc.
     In the NCAC, for example, there are several schools that seem always to struggle with their football programs trying to reach .500, or even winning a few games each year.   But some of these schools are highly competitive in other sports for both men and women:  soccer, basketball, field hockey, tennis, swimming, track and field, golf, baseball, lacrosse--where the NCAC has produced national champions and/or consistently nationally competitive teams.  Football is not King--and doesn't count more than any other sport when awarding the conference sports trophies.     Well, that's the best I can do with this.   

[GrizFan]

http://vimeo.com/75727059

Check out the video above related the to FC Touchdown Club.  Very well done.

Very cool video, btw. That's an awesome thing going on at Franklin.

Thanks.  Thomas More stll have a shot at playoffs?

They have to win out. If W&J loses then they are in as auto qualifier.  If W&J wins out and they win out, they should be the 1st Pool C team to go out of the South a Region.

Are the Pool C spots Region specific?  I thought the Pool C spots are awarded on a national basis.  The Saints may not earn a Pool C bid if they win out.  I can see bids being gobbled up by a west coast team, loser of Wabash/Wittenberg, OAC and WIAC teams.

[Pat Coleman]

They are awarded on a national basis. I think SaintsFAN means Thomas More would be first on the board from the region. Though that is not a guarantee of selection, it at least guarantees you get discussed.

[SaintsFAN]

They are awarded on a national basis. I think SaintsFAN means Thomas More would be first on the board from the region. Though that is not a guarantee of selection, it at least guarantees you get discussed.

Thanks Pat. That's exactly what I meant.