FB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

[Adam Sayer]

Trine is beating CWRU 51-31. I think MSJ did indeed get screwed. You have to play the game, but like I said, I would rather play CWRU than Witt...and some people said it didn't matter considering the current score. MSJ got d!cked out of a very possible victory.

[SaintsFAN]

Dude, like I said.. When you get beat 42-17 in week 11, you get what you get.  Last year TMC got shipped to NCC as an 8 and they just accepted it because of the loss to Geneva..

Congrats to MSJ on winning the HCAC, but playing in the playoffs is a privilege.. About 200 d3 teams would have changed places with them.

I saw MSJ and they looked like an 8 seed..

[70_dc_alum]

Congrats to TMC. Big win.

I think msj should be happy because location they did not have to play the true #8 seed which I think would have put them against UWW and the 70 pt whooooooping they laid today

does it matter though?  I was a little suprised on how bad mount smashed WJ. They are dominating good

[Adam Sayer]

Dude, like I said.. When you get beat 42-17 in week 11, you get what you get.  Last year TMC got shipped to NCC as an 8 and they just accepted it because of the loss to Geneva..

Congrats to MSJ on winning the HCAC, but playing in the playoffs is a privilege.. About 200 d3 teams would have changed places with them.

I saw MSJ and they looked like an 8 seed..

They probably were only as good as a 7 or 8 seed, but that is besides the point. When Trine was put into the same regional bracket, MSJ should have been seeded above them. MSJ beats Franklin, Franklin beats Trine and as Pat mentioned, the SOS wasn't very different (one-hundredths of a point). It came down to the selection committee feeling Trine was better and I don't see how that conclusion can be made when their exists a common opponent. Trine also lost to a 7-3 team, whereas MSJ lost to a team who was 10-0.

[SaintsFAN]

i do see your point.  I don't think MSJ would've gotten beat 42-14 against CWRU, but they wouldn't have been able to outscore the Spartans.

[cave2bens]

The point, "beside" or "taken", is that there is no "fool proof" method to determine fairness or weigh parity.  The NCAA divisions, not including the factory farms, make a concerted effort to try, but there are always statistical outliers.  Should Trine have received "a perceived favorable draw" over MSJ since conveniently, there are no "official seedings?"  In spite of a gaudy 10-0 record with a signature win over an under-achieving Wooster, one wonders how CWRU "got a number 3."  Record.

One might argue that either IWU or Wabash, based on comparatives and on-field performance would take Witt or Case - but neither had the unblemished record to merit the opportunity, and instead, the winner is rewrded with the purple "Perk." 

In agreement that a one-point, road loss in week three by Trine shouldn't override a road win by MSJ in week eight over a common opponent when it comes to pairings, but again it comes down to perfection being difficult to argue.  It begs to question - does the NCAA pick up the travel/hotel bills?  I ask, if only curious if the thought of expenses for two teams, overnight, versus just one might have played a role?

[Adam Sayer]

 
In agreement that a one-point, road loss in week three by Trine shouldn't override a road win by MSJ in week eight over a common opponent when it comes to pairings, but again it comes down to perfection being difficult to argue.  It begs to question - does the NCAA pick up the travel/hotel bills?  I ask, if only curious if the thought of expenses for two teams, overnight, versus just one might have played a role?

With CWRU being about a 5-hour drive, couldn't the NCAA make the start date 2 or 3pm? That would enable MSJ to stay out of a hotel. Regardless, it's over and done with, but it seems, after viewing the results, that MSJ missed out on a chance to win a playoff game.

Now that the season is over, though I will try to get to Crestview Hills this weekend, I think MSJ needs to re-evaluate their schedule at the soonest possible time. They have shown they can dominate and win the HCAC on a consistent basis. Wilmington was once a game with recruiting implications. It no longer is now that MSJ is consistently a playoff team and Wilmington is stuck at the bottom of the OAC year in and year out. I would hope they would consider another regional team to play (i.e. the team that just beat them in the playoffs would work well). Other options could be Capital, Ohio Northern, or Otterbein (we played them my freshman year). They owe it to themselves to play a team who is consistently good. It is always good starting off 1-0, but in the great world of DIII, as long as you win your conference, it doesn't matter what your record is. Plus, win that game, even if it's by accident, and you're set up very nicely for the post season.

[altor]

It came down to the selection committee feeling Trine was better and I don't see how that conclusion can be made when their exists a common opponent.

I'm not sure that was the conclusion.  I wonder if this committee didn't take a more strict interpretation of the "pair according to geography" directive.

When I look at the bracket, it looks to me like they split them into four groups of eight.  Perhaps, they chose host schools for the first round.  Then, they paired everybody mostly based on geography.  There are basically three exceptions to this theory, and those are easily explained.  Albright didn't play Delaware Valley and St. Thomas didn't play St. John's because they are conference foes.  Also, they probably split up NC Wesleyan and Hampden Sydney because they had played in week 1.

Without knowing the seeds, we won't know for sure.  But, I think MSJ drew Witt more based on geography than merit.

[Old Raven]

What's up everyone... First time poster here.  My co-worker's brother played and now coaches at Trine.  They will have their hands full this weekend.  TMC looks solid.  Wonder if they are better than the 2000 or 2001 TMC teams.  Castleberry was a beast and Lowery was very tough to contain.  Looking at the bracket TMC looks to have the best chance at the Semi's.  No MUC or UWW.  If Trine wins we will be taking a road trip.

[Mr. Ypsi]

What's up everyone... First time poster here.  My co-worker's brother played and now coaches at Trine.  They will have their hands full this weekend.  TMC looks solid.  Wonder if they are better than the 2000 or 2001 TMC teams.  Castleberry was a beast and Lowery was very tough to contain.  Looking at the bracket TMC looks to have the best chance at the Semi's.  No MUC or UWW.  If Trine wins we will be taking a road trip.

Trine plays at Wittenberg.

TMC hosts Johns Hopkins, and is in the Wesley bracket.

[dc_has_been]

Sayer, I agree that MSJ & other HCAC schools need to start playing tougher teams when it comes to nonconference games.  If there is going to be any improvement in the HCAC they need to start playing tougher schools.  They seem to play a lot of bottom dwellers from better conferences.  Plus I would like to see more of a seperation from the MIAA.  It seems like there are a lot of games between the two conferences.  I would still like to see DC keep Adrian on the schedule though due to their history. 

[SaintsFAN]

What's up everyone... First time poster here.  My co-worker's brother played and now coaches at Trine.  They will have their hands full this weekend.  TMC looks solid.  Wonder if they are better than the 2000 or 2001 TMC teams.  Castleberry was a beast and Lowery was very tough to contain.  Looking at the bracket TMC looks to have the best chance at the Semi's.  No MUC or UWW.  If Trine wins we will be taking a road trip.

They have more talent than those teams from earlier this decade.  The team speed is very good... it takes most teams a few series to adjust... meanwhile, TMC usually has scored a touchdown or two during the adjustment period.  Their DE's and LB's can blitz or defend the pass and they've totally shutdown the running game all year.  They are giving only 51.8 yards a game on the ground.   Through 11 games thats 570 yards total. 

They play a physical team in JHU this weeekend, but I like TMC's chances because of their speed and because they are at home.  They will be playing the Wesley/ Miss College winner in two weeks and a few of the Mount Union guys think they'll win the South and be in Alliance in 3 weeks.

[altor]

I would still like to see DC keep Adrian on the schedule though due to their history. 

I found this the other night.  According to Adrian, DC and Bluffton are still on their schedule for 2010.
http://www.adrian.edu/sports/football_future_sched.php

Still haven't found anything regarding the other non-conference opponent.

[Old Raven]

... would love to see TMC make it to Mt. Union.  I would make a road trip to see that one. I see that all the OAC teams only have one non-concerence game each year.  Why does Mt. Union waste it on D3 teams?  Does anyone else wonder how they stack up to bigger division teams?  For years I've wished that they would play someone like Grand Valley State and see how they compare, plus it would earn some respect.  I live in Indy and love seeing Pierre Garcon do well.  Does anyone know why he left Norwich his freshmen year for Mt. Union?

[formerd3db]

... would love to see TMC make it to Mt. Union.  I would make a road trip to see that one. I see that all the OAC teams only have one non-concerence game each year.  Why does Mt. Union waste it on D3 teams?  Does anyone else wonder how they stack up to bigger division teams?  For years I've wished that they would play someone like Grand Valley State and see how they compare, plus it would earn some respect.  I live in Indy and love seeing Pierre Garcon do well.  Does anyone know why he left Norwich his freshmen year for Mt. Union?

Being that you are new to the board, it is understandable that you would not be aware that those questions have been discussed extensively in the past couple of years, particularly over on the OAC board.  While I and many others would love to see Mount Union play a DII team like Grand Valley (or nearby Ashland, etc.) basically they simply do not desire to do that nor feel that it would be of any advantage to their program.  I also forgot why Garcon transferred to Mount, however, if you go over to the OAC board and ask those two questions to the regular Mount posters there, for sure they can provide you with better answers i.e. more specifics than I can.