FB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

[dc_has_been]

To add to the options, they could have lacross for the women too.  Anyway, I'm excited about all the things that are happening at DC but I do worry about the school biting off more than they can chew.  Hopefully after the field house they'll be able to add another residence hall off of Webster St.

[formerd3db]

cave2 and dc_has_been:

For sure, Title IX is always the "major" limiting factor.  If they are adding men's lacrosse, I can't imagine why they wouldn't add the women's team also.  That is the easiest and less expensive way to go.  Lacrosse, particularly for women, in reality, shouldn't add that much to the overall budget.  In the MIAA, after this spring 2010 season, the other MIAA teams will be joining Adrian and Trine in having "official varsity" status lacrosse for both men and women (Actually, for all practical purposes right now, Hope and Calvin's men's teams are varsity - "virtual varsity", just like U of Michigan and Michigan State).  Hope already has women's club lacrosse, so elevating it to varsity status makes sense.  Even the other MIAA schools who don't have lacrosse presently, it is my understanding, are adding it next year for both including Olivet and Alma (Alma has had a men's lacrosse club team, but not women's).

As to the Title IX issue, if not adding women's lacrosse, would an option for some of the MIAA teams be bringing back women's field hockey, which was had a historical tradition for decades?  To me, that would have been the other option.  On a somewhat tangential issue, I really Hope that someday, Hope and Calvin's hockey teams will be "official varsity".  Again, for all practical purposes, they are already.  The College pays for all the ice time, they get to use the huge team bus (same as football and basketball and baseball), some uniforms are paid for (although the players have to pay also), NCAA rules are followed in the Central Collegiate Hockey Association and the American Collegiate Hockey Association, and Hope draws tons of people in attendancde for home games (and not just students).  It is collegiate hockey (as is the lacrosse) which is not just a "club brand" of type or style.  If Adrian and Trine can support those newer sports (especially with jAdrian which has 4 - yes 4 hockey teamsj!), then Hope and Calvin can also. Despite what some may relate, there is $ to support it - and ways to continue to support/finance it if they chose to do so - heck, they already are..  Anyway, good discussion and keep us posted as to what happens at DC with regard to this. 

[formerd3db]

BTW, cave2, congrats on your 100th +k!

[cave2bens]

Thank you, former D3.  Actually, I was around 104 until I committed a couple of offensive fouls last week as "tongue 'n cheek" is lost on some of the more serious posters.    My bad, but heck, I've lunched with the guy with 500, so kudos back in your direction!

Defiance played varsity lacrosse back in the dark ages - I believe their final year was 1974.  Rugby (though a club status) was waylaid in 1977 after six years, and I am unsure when the wrestling program disappeared.  All three were strong programs with many of the matches against Big Ten and Mid Am institutions.  As Defiance adds new swimming programs and new field house / indoor track, in addition to lax between 2011-2013, I fear the college is over extending a limited budget, in a severely depressed, local economy in NW Ohio, with a rather anemic endowment level as back up.

Priorities are what they are, based on opinions and knowledge gleaned by those in decision making capacities.  Many disagree with my premise that physical plant improvements and strengthening core curricula and faculty resources should take precedence or at least receive "equal" consideration particularly at a DIII institution.  That's perfectly fair, as the school "places its bets" on selected direction, and potential return on investment. The choice of alums, friends, and sponsors "deciding with wallets" whether to support initiatives (or not) will verify if the correct tack was selected over the next decade or two.  Cheers!

[formerd3db]

cave2:

You are welcome and thank you as well.  You insights and opinions as to the "state of Defiance" have merit.  As you state, and as I see it too, the small colleges and universities have to do this to remain competitive and attract student-athletes.  The so-called old catch phrase "keeping up with the Jones's (sp?)" applies here and is something that anyone just can't get around anymore.  Many of the colleges have very outdated facilities, and while nostaligia is great and I'm all for trying to preserve some of those buildings to some extent i.e. as much as can perhaps be practically and feasibly incorporated into the new plans, having to go the new route is pretty much a must.  Of course, as you mention, funding is always the main issue for alumns, etc., however, it seems to me, that for almost all cases, the colleges, their alumns, local business community somehow come up with a way to finance the projects - they have to eventually, even if the project has to be scaled down somewhat.  

The other serious aspect here, and what comes into play for schools like Defiance, Olivet, and Adrian (and it was for Trine also), to use those as examples, is that they have to do these upgrades to compete with their fellow schools in the enrollment aspect.  I do not mean this as a "dis" to those schools in any way, yet the reality is that schools like Hope and Calvin do not (and probably never will) have a problem with securing/attracting the high numbers of applications year after year despite the tough economic times and the extreme high cost of going to a small DIII school.  Adrian had to do that as they fell below 1,000 students about 4-5 years ao for the first time in decades and it was not a good outlook or situation.  By bringing in hockey and lacrosse at the NCAA level, they secured that situation so that they can stay around their desired number of 1,500 to perhaps 1,700 sutdents, which is still small compared to many other of the DIII schools, but it works for them.  Heck, they have 4 hockey teams, men's and women's varsity hockey and two club collegiate hockey teams and they fill the ice arena with fans for all of those.  Add to that they rent our the arena to the community (it ddidn't hurt that two alumns gave them over $2 million to construct the on-campus ice arena ) and add to that men's and women's lacrosse which doesn't cost that much to fund the programs in the long-term, you can see how many student's that brings in to the College and at over #33,000 (I think that is what their cost was - I'd have to go back several dozen pages on our board to check on that or I guess a quicker route would be just going to their website - but the point is that brings in a lot of $ and keeps their enrollment up without costing them in the long run.  Of course, if some of these smaller schools do not have the luxury of deep-pocket alumns to donate that kind of cash to finance new facilities, then it obviously makes it so much tougher for those schools.

We've had in the past and again now have been having this discussion over on our MIAA board with Albion's recent and Kazoo's previous announcements for upgraded facilities, which for football, now leaves Hope at the bottom per se.  Although, there are some other "issues" with that regarding the football stadium which is owned by the City of Holland.  Yet, with Hope having the huge "big-time" DeVos Arena for basketball, volleyball, its nice baseball and softball stadiums (so has Adrian for baseball and football and Trine of course with their fantastic football stadium) its now very nice soccer and lacrosse stadium with covered permannet stands in a large section, lights and the new style turf and all the new wrought iron fencing and "vintage style" arches to match the original turn-of-the century arch on campus, I can't imagine (or perhaps understand) why they wouldn't work something out to remedy that situation.  But... that is another story.  

Anyway, I hope that it works out for Defiance with their tentative plans for the sports and upgraded facilities.  They had to do it several years ago with building of Cassell (sp?) Stadium and that is a very nice facility.  I think like Trine, they need to do it to survive and/or at least be competitive.  Of course, winning helps tremendously in that category , but you do that by attracting the student-athleties by having great facilities.  As that "new" saying goes..."It is what it is" (and I'm not referring to the infamous "is" that former Pres. Clinton devised! )

Hope you and your wife are doing well.

formerd3db

[SaintsFAN]

cave,

How is Africa treating you guys??

Nobody else answer this... I don't want to hear from you.

[formerd3db]

 I posted this over on the MIAA board, however, I will share it here for opinion.

...Oh my gosh!  The DIII full feature length film by former DIII player Marshall Cook, the trailer of which is previewed on the front webpage of this site, looks hilarious. After seeing this, I immediately thought it brings us back to the "Animal House" mentality of our/my (yes, I'll admit to it also   ) college playing days and (secretly ) I laughed my arse off while viewing the trailer   . Of course, I'm much more matured and refinded now.   However, I will also add/ask this: a) I'm not sure many of our DIII college administrators, presidents, AD's, coaches, etc., would/will be pleased in seeing this when it comes out and b) do you not think it might reflect in, shall we say a not so flattering, or quite frankly an unfavorable way on DIII football?   What say 'ye, my fellow DIII'er's? 

[SaintsFAN]

Agreed  --- looked very funny, d3db. 

Hope things are well for you and the fam.

[formerd3db]

SaintsFAN:

Good to hear from you, my friend.  Yes, it was funny.  I will go see it, although I will not be bringing my wife with me for that!

I and family are doing well.  I hope you are doing well too.  I am ready for summer, that's for sure.  Take care and keep in touch.

[dc_has_been]

Nice to see some DC guys do well in the Ohio Army National Guard Senior Bowl.  Here's the link to the story http://www.defianceathletics.com/football/news/44/1464/

[dc_has_been]

Congrats to RHIT and Coach Sokol for their OT win in Austria!

[wab64]

        Congrats cave2-I see you're up to 114. That should give you  a cushion for a little sarcasm.

[cave2bens]

        Congrats cave2-I see you're up to 114. That should give you  a cushion for a little sarcasm.

Only if NCAC hardwood board is bypassed     Problem with advancing age is becoming lost in thought - an unfamiliar territory as is!   

Sure is quiet on here - no input on what's in store for the HCAC this season?  Jacketbacker? Jacketsfan?  BP? 70s?   

[Jackets Backer]

Cave,

Sorry to say but I have nothing for you. Give me another 6 weeks.

[dc_has_been]

Cave,

The only thing other than the RHIT game that I've noticed is DC updated their roster.  No freshman have been added yet, but the roster looks very full.  I'm going to assume all the ones on there are not coming back but could make a nice looking team if they did.